2010 F1 German Grand Prix

[waggles]

Welcome to Hockenheim in leafy Germany. The circuit may have been sanitized since His Tilkeness worked out how to use a pen, but it can still provide a great race.

Onboard in 2003 with Montoya and Martin Brundle:


In 2008, the result was Nelson Piquet Jnr. taking his first podium behind winner Lewis Hamilton:
1st:Lewis Hamilton (McLaren)
2nd: Nelson Piquet Jr (Renault)
3rd:Felipe Massa (Ferrari)

Can Webber and RBR continue their good form, despite the inherent fact that the RB6 is not so good in low-downforce confguration?
Will Vettel make amends for his disastrous start in Silverstone?
Can the McLaren or Ferrari boys take the opportunity?
Or will F1 spring a surprise?

Predicted Weather:
Friday:12/22, chance of rain 30%
Saturday:12/18, rain predicted
Sunday:8/23, rain predicted
​

 

[Ardius]

First race of the new Bridgestone tyre strategy using compounds two whole steps different. For this race, its Super-soft and Hard tyres. (rather than using medium or soft tyres).

Everyone should be a bit closer to Red Bull once again as this track doesn't have so many high-speed corners. Lotus are predicting this to be one of their stronger tracks, so perhaps they are one to watch with regards to Q1.

Looking like wet weather for Friday practice and dry for qualifying and the race.

 

[astrosdude91]

I hope for a strong RBR performance, but I know this isn't an ideal track for Red Bull. So, I'll just have to wait till Sunday to find out.

Luckily this is the LAST F1 race on Fox this year, then it's back on SPEED where it belongs!

Oh, and here is a video with Mark Webber in the Red Bull Simulator:

 

[Pupik]

Luckily this is the LAST F1 race on Fox this year, then it's back on SPEED where it belongs!

Don't worry, soon the F1 circus will be going to countries that most Americans haven't heard of, so they will have to bring it back to SPEED.

(Sorry, just saw Idiocracy last night.)

 

[Fastas]

With six Germans competing this weekend it's going to be a fantastic atmosphere and should fire-up a few of them. I agree with the OP in that the track is overly sanitised but, it's still got some tricky corners and that always adds to the excitement.

I'm hoping that Williams continues to show good form and perhaps the Hulk can show us what he's made of. For the race I'll predict a Vetel win with the McLaren's line-a-stern to complete the podium.

 

[The Outlaw]

Should be a great weekend of racing 👍 Now I just hope Alonso/Ferrari can get some revenge and score a very possible victory this weekend

 

[GTPorsche]

If it indeed does rain for the race, Vettel should have it fairly easy if Hamilton and McLaren aren't up to par with the Red Bulls. Maybe some other drivers good in the rain can step up and take advantage of the weather.

That's of course, if it actually rains since rain was predicted for the last couple GP weekends and it never happened.

 

[BobK]

Predicted Weather:
Friday:12/22, chance of rain 30%
Saturday:12/18, rain predicted
Sunday:8/23, rain predicted
​

Aside from the 30%, what do those numbers represent?

 

[GTPorsche]

Aside from the 30%, what do those numbers represent?

Temperature in celsius.

 

[Prince.M5]

Lotus are predicting this to be one of their stronger tracks, so perhaps they are one to watch with regards to Q1.

I would love to see them being far away from the new teams, and edging even closer to the established teams. Getting into Q2 is already going to be a massive achievement for them. Hopefully Sauber can do the same too...

Aside from the 30%, what do those numbers represent?

It's a temperature as like what GTPorsche said. For example, Friday says 12/22 which means lowest 12c and highest 22c for that day.

 

[Alex.]

Ah, last time we were here Hamilton barged Massa off the track twice, let's hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[Seismica]

It's time Jenson Button got another win.

Bring on the rain!

 

[yeti]

It will be very interesting to see if McLaren can get the blown diffuser sorted out for this race... if so - then I expect them to be towards the front - if there's unpredictable weather - I'd expect Button to do well - if it's full on rain - then Lewis could shine... although I think rain might bring the race closer to the Red Bulls...

In other news - I read a Ted Kravitz blog the other day - apprarently the blown diffuser on the RB's (and the Renaults) is superior because the ECU on the Renault engine has a special setting that ensures exhaust gas is always being pumped out - they only use this for Quali though because it uses too much fuel during the race (although I assume that they *could* use it during the race if they have the fuel and the need) - does this mean that the Merc/Ferrari engine won't be able to do this due to homogolisation - or can they make ECU changes?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8820607.stm

C.

 

[Seismica]

It will be very interesting to see if McLaren can get the blown diffuser sorted out for this race... if so - then I expect them to be towards the front - if there's unpredictable weather - I'd expect Button to do well - if it's full on rain - then Lewis could shine... although I think rain might bring the race closer to the Red Bulls...

In other news - I read a Ted Kravitz blog the other day - apprarently the blown diffuser on the RB's (and the Renaults) is superior because the ECU on the Renault engine has a special setting that ensures exhaust gas is always being pumped out - they only use this for Quali though because it uses too much fuel during the race (although I assume that they *could* use it during the race if they have the fuel and the need) - does this mean that the Merc/Ferrari engine won't be able to do this due to homogolisation - or can they make ECU changes?

C.

That might explain why Mclaren always do badly compared to the Red Bulls in qualifying, and then keep up with them in the race (Even at tracks like Silverstone). Renault seem to do comparatively better in qualifying than they do in the race come to think of it.

 

[Fastas]

/\ Wow, that explains a lot. Thinking back, there was some mention of this 'continual' exhaust system at Silverstone. I can't really think of a situation where the exhaust wouldn't be blowing though, unless there is a mechanical devise in operation actively 'blowing' when the car is at slower speeds.

 

[yeti]

That might explain why Mclaren always do badly compared to the Red Bulls in qualifying, and then keep up with them in the race (Even at tracks like Silverstone). Renault seem to do comparatively better in qualifying than they do in the race come to think of it.

Exactly right - that's why RB are always an extra half a second quicker in Quali than anyone else!!

C.

 

[yeti]

/\ Wow, that explains a lot. Thinking back, there was some mention of this 'continual' exhaust system at Silverstone. I can't really think of a situation where the exhaust wouldn't be blowing though, unless there is a mechanical devise in operation actively 'blowing' when the car is at slower speeds.

I guess it's more about when you come off throttle the change in pressure can change quite rapidly I guess - and there may be not enough gas at bends - which is when you really need it I guess... perhaps bends where you change gear are the biggest problem?

C.

 

[Fastas]

I can't begin to understand how that might work but it begs the question of whether or not there are 'movable' aero' parts involved. Also, if it is the secret to the RB6's success then, it will not be as successful for to many more races.

Edit: I've just read Kravitz's blog. It makes for a good read and has some other interesting stories too.

 

[Ardius]

I can't begin to understand how that might work but it begs the question of whether or not there are 'movable' aero' parts involved. Also, if it is the secret to the RB6's success then, it will not be as successful for to many more races.

Its nothing to do with "Moveable aero", its quite simply altering the temperature of the air entering the diffuser and rear wing of the car - obviously engine exhaust is hot when it comes out. When the driver isn't on the throttle, obviously there is less exhaust gases and less temperature to blow the diffuser with. (the exhaust is still blowing hot air out, but not as much as when on throttle)
The whole point of the blown diffuser concept is to add heat to the lower parts of the diffuser, which reacts with the cold(er) air above, creating downforce. This simply allows the concept to work constantly, rather than only when the driver is on the throttle.

I don't get why you are talking about moving aerodynamic pieces. The exhaust system is already pointing at the diffuser why do they need moving parts?

does this mean that the Merc/Ferrari engine won't be able to do this due to homogolisation - or can they make ECU changes?

C.

Its just an ECU change. Easy and cheap.

 

[Fastas]

errr...no. The way it works is by effectively burning off fuel in the exhaust system whilst the throttle is not applied in order to create the pressure in the exhaust system to enable the diffuser to work. The temperature is irrelevant.

 

[Ardius]

Hmm, and how do you burn off fuel? There is nothing aerodynamic about it.

Its everything to do with temperature - thats how the blown diffuser works! Without the hot air, you don't have the pressure.

 

[Fastas]

There is no benefit in heating up the diffuser to make it work better

The fuel is burned off by using a retarded ignition - dumping fuel into the engine after the ignition stroke. It still burns because of the heat, and exhausts normally.

I said I couldn't imagine how they did it...I then read the explanation in Kravitz thread; where's the fire?

 

[yeti]

Its just an ECU change. Easy and cheap.

I wasn't concerned with cost - more rules - I know that they aren't allowed to do a lot to the engines - but don't know how far those rules go...

ECU changes probably aren't *that* cheap - depends on the compexity of the coding that goes behind the changes? (Although, I'll admit, this change sounds pretty easy (and therefore cheap!)!)

C.

 

[Ardius]

I wasn't concerned with cost - more rules - I know that they aren't allowed to do a lot to the engines - but don't know how far those rules go...

ECU changes probably aren't *that* cheap - depends on the compexity of the coding that goes behind the changes? (Although, I'll admit, this change sounds pretty easy (and therefore cheap!)!)

C.

Its allowed in the rules, if it wasn't don't you think there would have been an uproar about it?
As far as I know, only the physical ECU units themselves are spec - not how they are coded. Or at least, there are certain aspects of the ECU which must allow this.

There is no benefit in heating up the diffuser to make it work better

The hot air that comes out of the exhaust is of a lower pressure than the surrounding air and works in tandem with the rear wing in creating a low pressure area under the wing and behind the car.
I'm pretty sure thats how the physics of it works.

 

[yeti]

Its allowed in the rules, if it wasn't don't you think there would have been an uproar about it?

I didn't mean whether that technique was allowed... more that the ECU being able to be changed mid season...

C.

 

[Ardius]

Like I said, I don't think the coding of the ECU is homologated, at least with regards to engine maps, etc.

 

[yeti]

Like I said, I don't think the coding of the ECU is homologated, at least with regards to engine maps, etc.

That is definitely what I would've expected... especially as Cosworth were saying that they were making improvements with "drivability" of their engines and so forth - and I pretty much assumed that would have to be ECU based...

C.

 

[Seismica]

There is no benefit in heating up the diffuser to make it work better

It heats up the air around the diffuser, somehow creating more downforce (Increasing the speed of the air past the diffuser? The high pressure air trying to fill the gaps in the low pressure air and forcing down the base of the rear wing and the diffuser? Something along those lines). The heating up of the diffuser itself it a side-effect, but it's the suspension that suffers, hence why Ferrari, Mercedes etc. had problems at first.

 

[niky]

It heats up the air around the diffuser, somehow creating more downforce (Increasing the speed of the air past the diffuser? The high pressure air trying to fill the gaps in the low pressure air and forcing down the base of the rear wing and the diffuser? Something along those lines). The heating up of the diffuser itself it a side-effect, but it's the suspension that suffers, hence why Ferrari, Mercedes etc. had problems at first.

Basically it.

Hot air from the exhaust cools down over the diffuser, shrinking and pulling more air from under the car into the vacuum... the hotter the air, the more effective the diffuser.

Two ways to get hotter exhaust. One is to lean the engine out so it runs hotter (lean, meaning less fuel, more air)... which is a good way to blow up engines. Two is to add more fuel until you're running so rich that your air-fuel mixture is still burning as it goes out the exhaust. Doesn't blow up engines but boy does it use up fuel.

Yeah... it's kind of counter-intuitive... usually manufacturers run engines richer to make them run cooler, but if you run them rich enough, you're spitting flames out the back end...

 

[Peter]

It's time for Ferrari to get back in contention. They ave seriously fallen back in points, and if they don't straighten up, they'll be out of title contention for good very soon.