2010 F1 Magyar Nagydíj

[Danny]

It's no wonder he's gets so angry all the time, he's had a good 70 or 80 points taken from him!

Taken from him? Huh?

Surely if he'd have passed the cars in front, he'd have acquired said points.

 

[Prince.M5]

So... WTCC style weight penalties for Red Bull? To make the rest of the season interesting?

Honestly, I kinda like that idea... But that would never happen anyway.

 

[Greycap]

Surely if he'd have passed the cars in front, he'd have acquired said points.

Surely if his car didn't keep blowing up early in the season, Hamilton wouldn't have sliced his rear tyre in Great Britain, his radio would have worked in Hungary, he would never have got into the situation in which he would have had to overtake. Just to mention a few. Those points were very much taken from him.

 

[Radracing]

What a frustratingly good race! Loved that pit stop malarky! Kobayashi had an awesome start, Petrov and Hulkenberg kicked arse!

How can their be so many ways that Vettel can have almost guaranteed victories taken from him? It's no wonder he's gets so angry all the time, he's had a good 70 or 80 points taken from him!

He actually gave those points away buy doing some silly moves. He needs to man up or grow up so that he can start racing head to head better. Seems he is only good at quali or dominating in front but even that from the last race he actually gave the race to Webber.

 

[PeterJB]

He actually gave those points away buy doing some silly moves. He needs to man up or grow up so that he can start racing head to head better. Seems he is only good at quali or dominating in front but even that from the last race he actually gave the race to Webber.

I wouldn't call a broken spark plug, faulty brakes, a puncture and a faulty radio stupid moves.

 

[Radracing]

I wouldn't call a broken spark plug, faulty brakes, a puncture and a faulty radio stupid moves.

I wasn't talking about mechanical failures. I was talking about his human failures. I know you are a big Vettel fan and I am too since he first started F1 but lately he's been very disappointing.

 

[PeterJB]

I'll admit that he was at fault at Turkey, but other than that it's difficult to think of other examples.

Edit: And the start of Germany.

 

[Matti_Dude]

Surely if his car didn't keep blowing up early in the season, Hamilton wouldn't have sliced his rear tyre in Great Britain, his radio would have worked in Hungary, he would never have got into the situation in which he would have had to overtake. Just to mention a few. Those points were very much taken from him.

He has been very unlucky but I think the Red Bull doesn't help him in those situations. The RB6 cannot overtake other cars very easily at all. All of the car's performance is down to downforce, and when it comes to overtaking you want the big straight line speed advantage instead. In terms of raw pace, the RB6 is miles ahead of the rest, but when the drivers find themselves in a tricky situation it just makes it even harder for the driver seeing as they cannot overtake as easily.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I really hope Webber can win this world championship, What it would do for Australian motorsport and F1 in this country would be brilliant. More and more focus on it with hopefully better and better coverage.

 

[astrosdude91]

I hope Webber wins it all too. It really is his year, and he is the most deserving of it!

 

[niky]

I wouldn't call a broken spark plug, faulty brakes, a puncture and a faulty radio stupid moves.

And indeed... his drive in the last half of that race, with a broken plug, was just epic.

 

[The Outlaw]

And indeed... his drive in the last half of that race, with a broken plug, was just epic.

What was so "epic" about his drive in particular??? His lap times were all over the place up until the last couple of laps when Rosberg closed up on him and Vettel decided that he needed to start pushing to maintain the gap...nothing really impressive about that IMO, Vettel's drive in Spain with the brake problem was much more impressive.

When I think of "epic" drives while having to nurse an injured car, Schumacher @ Barcelona in '94 comes to mind, where he managed a 2nd place finish stuck with only one gear (5th gear) throughout a good part of the race

 

[niky]

What was so "epic" about his drive in particular??? His lap times were all over the place up until the last couple of laps when Rosberg closed up on him and Vettel decided that he needed to start pushing to maintain the gap...nothing really impressive about that IMO, Vettel's drive in Spain with the brake problem was much more impressive.

When I think of "epic" drives while having to nurse an injured car, Schumacher @ Barcelona in '94 comes to mind, where he managed a 2nd place finish stuck with only one gear (5th gear) throughout a good part of the race

They were all over the place because he had poor power and didn't know what to do about it. The team was trying to figure it out and they wanted him to play it safe.

I was actually talking about those last laps in front of Rosberg. Where his second sector times were faster than they were during the rest of the race and faster than anyone else. That's really pushing it.

 

[Roo]

Apparantly Schumacher would've been black flagged had there been enough time.

 

[Matti_Dude]

I don't see why the news has been making such a big deal of the Schumacher and Barrichello incident. Yes it was dangerous, perhaps too aggressive from Schumi, but there was no accident. To me it just looks like some aggression used to defend his place, despite him losing out anyway. IF there had been an accident it would have been a different story, but there wasn't.

 

[Ardius]

I don't see why the news has been making such a big deal of the Schumacher and Barrichello incident. Yes it was dangerous, perhaps too aggressive from Schumi, but there was no accident. To me it just looks like some aggression used to defend his place, despite him losing out anyway. IF there had been an accident it would have been a different story, but there wasn't.

Wait, are you suggesting that incident wasn't serious because there wasn't a resultant accident? I don't see it getting reported any more than the average close call such as Buemi's suspension failure, Webber's brake failure, etc. All close calls but no serious deaths or "news".

This was a very serious incident, there was big potential for serious injuries from both pit crew, marshalls, spectators and the drivers themselves if Rubens had actually hit the pit wall (or even someone exiting the pits!). The fact Schumacher visibly showed that he had seen Rubens and knew he was pushing him into the wall alone is worth reporting and made an example of - should we just gloss over it as "just aggressive driving"? What message does that send to everyone else, particularly younger drivers in lower formula?
Personally, I don't want to find myself karting and being shoved into a wall because people think its fine. It happens anyway but we need to uphold some standards - you just don't force people into an accident to stop them overtaking like that.

Michael didn't need to push Rubens to the limit like that and he sets a bad example, what if everyone did that for every overtake? He was pushing Rubens into a smaller and smaller margin of error, with the consequences being a nasty crash. Completely not the right attitude for fair racing.

Also - the media will report it because this is the umpteenth time Schumacher has chopped someone on the track. The funny thing is, after all these incidents of his poor judgement of fair racing, it would really warrant taking away his super license. But it will never happen until someone gets seriously hurt.

 

[Antti-san]

I totally agree with Ardius - it was a disgusting move, and if you ask me, he got away with it pretty lightly. 👎

 

[Peter]

Oh boy. They better get Nick in the car before Michael kills someone and gets Mercedes fined crazy money.

 

[Only_in_f1]

You moan if they don't race, you moan it they race too hard!

 

[Antti-san]

You moan if they don't race, you moan it they race too hard!

There's a difference between racing and shoving your opponent to the wall! 💡

 

[The Outlaw]

Sounds like the FIA will have an improved testing procedure for the the front wings flexiblity prior to Spa, which could have implications for the flexi-wings on the RBR and Ferrari cars. Having heard what these wings are worth in terms of performance this could be a good thing for teams like Mclaren in particular, who haven't adpated the design yet and are a bit off the front runners pace. This is another screw up by the FIA. They have a rather blatanty inaccurate testing procedure (placing a very minor amount of weight on the front wing to measure the amount of flex) in place which has allowed teams to come up with such a design which passes the current tests, then a few races later after the teams waste money/rescourses on such developements they decide to change the regulations mid-season The FIA is a joke...they remind me of a bunch of middle school soccer referees trying to referree a professional soccer match

For me, Spa will be a HIGHLY anticipated race, especially to see what updates the teams bring for that race and to see how competitive the top 3 teams are in the final dash to decide the Champion. Things are shaping up to be quite epic

 

[Casio]

Bit behind in the posts. But has anyone mentioned what a disgracefully boring track Hungry is.

 

[astrosdude91]

This is another screw up by the FIA. They have a rather blatanty inaccurate testing procedure (placing a very minor amount of weight on the front wing to measure the amount of flex) in place which has allowed teams to come up with such a design which passes the current tests, then a few races later after the teams waste money/rescourses on such developements they decide to change the regulations mid-season The FIA is a joke...they remind me of a bunch of middle school soccer referees trying to referree a professional soccer match

Ditto times 10!

Well, we all know that Mark Webber can still win races without that new flex wing. So, maybe this won't be such a bad thing. I'm sure Newey is hard at work to improve the car in other ways to make the car better even without that new front wing.

 

[niky]

I don't see why the news has been making such a big deal of the Schumacher and Barrichello incident. Yes it was dangerous, perhaps too aggressive from Schumi, but there was no accident. To me it just looks like some aggression used to defend his place, despite him losing out anyway. IF there had been an accident it would have been a different story, but there wasn't.

Yes, your honor, my client shot at the police officer, but he wasn't aiming to hit him. That doesn't count, right?

Sounds like the FIA will have an improved testing procedure for the the front wings flexiblity prior to Spa, which could have implications for the flexi-wings on the RBR and Ferrari cars. Having heard what these wings are worth in terms of performance this could be a good thing for teams like Mclaren in particular, who haven't adpated the design yet and are a bit off the front runners pace. This is another screw up by the FIA. They have a rather blatanty inaccurate testing procedure (placing a very minor amount of weight on the front wing to measure the amount of flex) in place which has allowed teams to come up with such a design which passes the current tests, then a few races later after the teams waste money/rescourses on such developements they decide to change the regulations mid-season The FIA is a joke...they remind me of a bunch of middle school soccer referees trying to referree a professional soccer match

For me, Spa will be a HIGHLY anticipated race, especially to see what updates the teams bring for that race and to see how competitive the top 3 teams are in the final dash to decide the Champion. Things are shaping up to be quite epic

I don't see how an exactly 50 kilogram load, placed exactly in the same place for each test, with the inspector measuring for exactly 10mm of deflection is "blatantly inaccurate".

Motorsports regulations are all about finding exactly what you can get away with, and this is what Newey has done with the RBR. He found that you could design a front wing that would pass the test and still flex under full load downforce... and downforce on these cars often totals more than the weight of the car... meaning the 50 kilogram test is truly inadequate. The panel probably decided on the 50 kilogram test because they didn't want to overly stress the wings. FIA tests are not "test to destruction"... they can't be while remaining affordable to perform for both the FIA and the team.

There's very little you can do about teams finding ways around the spirit of the law, except to change the letter of the law to reflect this. No rule book or rule maker is perfect. If they were, F1 would be a very, very boring sport to watch.

 

[Radracing]

Matti_Dude
I don't see why the news has been making such a big deal of the Schumacher and Barrichello incident. Yes it was dangerous, perhaps too aggressive from Schumi, but there was no accident. To me it just looks like some aggression used to defend his place, despite him losing out anyway. IF there had been an accident it would have been a different story, but there wasn't.

Yes, your honor, my client shot at the police officer, but he wasn't aiming to hit him. That doesn't count, right?

It's more like I didn't mean to kill him I just wanted to wing him.

 

[The Outlaw]

I don't see how an exactly 50 kilogram load, placed exactly in the same place for each test, with the inspector measuring for exactly 10mm of deflection is "blatantly inaccurate"..

"Blatantly inaccurate" in the sense that it's not at all a valid or realistic representation of the type of load the wing sees at speeds above 200km/h. I mean how did they figure (*cough* guess *cough*) the rate of deflection of the front wing while a car was on track with much greater loads than 100kg in total?

Motorsports regulations are all about finding exactly what you can get away with, and this is what Newey has done with the RBR. He found that you could design a front wing that would pass the test and still flex under full load downforce... and downforce on these cars often totals more than the weight of the car... meaning the 50 kilogram test is truly inadequate. The panel probably decided on the 50 kilogram test because they didn't want to overly stress the wings. FIA tests are not "test to destruction"... they can't be while remaining affordable to perform for both the FIA and the team.

There's very little you can do about teams finding ways around the spirit of the law, except to change the letter of the law to reflect this. No rule book or rule maker is perfect. If they were, F1 would be a very, very boring sport to watch.

I agree...particularly with the bold print. Can't say I agree with the underlined print - I hope the panel didn't think the front wing might break with more than 100kg of load in total Anyway, if they are so worried about flexi wings, they should have had a much more stringent and accurate testing procedure in place to begin with, instead of changing things mid season because they found out it was completey inaccurate (which is rather obvious) compared to the levels of load the wing sees on track. Time for them to appoint a ex-F1 engineer to their side I'd say...

 

[Ardius]

You moan if they don't race, you moan it they don't race

Fixed it for you.
What Schumacher did wasn't racing.

Bit behind in the posts. But has anyone mentioned what a disgracefully boring track Hungry is.

Its only boring for overtaking, its exciting for everything else. It usually brings up surprise results, its a fantastic track to drive, it provides a unique setup of high downforce and high speed and it brings in a huge crowd of fans from around Eastern Europe.

 

[TheCracker]

"Blatantly inaccurate" in the sense that it's not at all a valid or realistic representation of the type of load the wing sees at speeds above 200km/h. I mean how did they figure (*cough* guess *cough*) the rate of deflection of the front wing while a car was on track with much greater loads than 100kg in total?

I agree...particularly with the bold print. Can't say I agree with the underlined print - I hope the panel didn't think the front wing might break with more than 100kg of load in total Anyway, if they are so worried about flexi wings, they should have had a much more stringent and accurate testing procedure in place to begin with, instead of changing things mid season because they found out it was completey inaccurate (which is rather obvious) compared to the levels of load the wing sees on track. Time for them to appoint a ex-F1 engineer to their side I'd say...

The front wing on an F1 car creates between 350 and 400kgs downforce at highspeed (2004 figures) That's the weight across the whole surface. A 50kg weight at one end point should be sufficient enough to check for a more than 10mm deflection. Trouble is, some engineers believe that it's the whole nose of the car that's dipping down, not just the wing tip end plates. They also believe that it was whatever mechanism they use to achieve this that caused Vettel's wing/nose to break at Silverstone. The rules that the FIA put in place to stop previous flexi wings was never designed for, or could have predicted, a structural flex of the whole nose section.

 

[Piket]

The front wing on an F1 car creates between 350 and 400kgs downforce at highspeed (2004 figures) That's the weight across the whole surface. A 50kg weight at one end point should be sufficient enough to check for a more than 10mm deflection. Trouble is, some engineers believe that it's the whole nose of the car that's dipping down, not just the wing tip end plates. They also believe that it was whatever mechanism they use to achieve this that caused Vettel's wing/nose to break at Silverstone. The rules that the FIA put in place to stop previous flexi wings was never designed for, or could have predicted, a structural flex of the whole nose section.

Interesting post 👍

Red Bull owns everyone and Ferrari is suddenly (since germany)ahead of Mclaren..My guess it's all about the front wing. Ferrari noticed the Red Bull one, made a not quite good copy and therefore is ahead of the others.. Renault is getting better, Mercedes is working on the W02 and Williams continues to perform well beyond expectations.

As for drivers: Vettel is fast guaranteed but not mature enough to handle the pressure. Webber is a good ''role driver'' but not championship worthy,his only chance of getting one is this year,given that the performance of Red Bulls stays so way ahead of the competition and Vettel continues to underperform. Alonso owns Massa (4 tenths quicker steadily) and Hamilton ,Button will prove their worth when the front wing penalty or when Mclaren revise theirs.My money is on them for both chips..

As for the Hungary GP: Well done Webber, impressive use of option tyres. Well done Alonso,as always taking everything tha car gives and then some..Vettel 👎 Massa 👎.

As for the Schumi-Rubens incident--> Rubens get over it..or him...at last..

Webber did way worse and the incident was forgotten instantly.

Pit lane frenzy:tup:👍👍

 

[Ardius]

Ferrari haven't "suddenly" been faster than McLaren - they've been faster since Monaco! The reason you haven't noticed is because they kept screwing up their races or being screwed by safety cars or penalties.
The effect has been far bigger at Hungary and Hockenheim because McLaren's updates haven't been working as they would like and these tracks have favoured Ferrari.

Its never just one thing that makes a car better, Ferrari have always been bringing updates and they have been getting ahead of McLaren on pace.