2010 F1 Magyar Nagydíj

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What did Vettel do today that constitutes as a stupid move?
 
For a very fast guy Vettel sure is looking amateurish as this season progresses. He sure does makes some stupid moves.
I don't think it's ability that is coming into question, but his maturity.

He'd already been told by his engineer to calm down and they'd talk after the race yet he continued to try and make a fuss rather than congratulating his team mate on a victory. 👎
 
He'd already been told by his engineer to calm down and they'd talk after the race yet he continued to try and make a fuss rather than congratulating his team mate on a victory. 👎
He did. A little late but he gave Webber and hand and said "weldone", just before when Webber got on the scale.
 
What did Vettel do today that constitutes as a stupid move?

Assuming Webber would back off from the safety car when it came in was a bit silly. He probably wouldn't have made that mistake if he had his radio working though but it was a massive assumption particularly at one point where Webber was clearly gone around the corner.
I'm also wondering if Vettel actually broke the 10-car rule on the start straight during the safety car rather than at the final corner when it came in as the BBC were assuming? The FOM replay showed the straight when they were still under safety car and Webber did clearly get quite a bit into the distance.

I'm pretty sure everyone should know this rule too, as its probably made clear in driver briefings.

Edit:
An amazing picture that says it all:
Barrichello-and-Michael-Schumacher_2483054.jpg


Schumacher cannot claim to have not seen him with poor mirrors. I also found it amusing when Michael suggested Rubens could have gone left....yeah, so you could use your 1 allowed move to squeeze him left! I don't actually understand what Mercedes are gaining having Michael around anymore...he's miles of Rosberg, he's taking a hefty salary (assumedly) and he's not exactly bringing in positive PR. Save yourselves another year or two of pathetic and dirty performances and stick Heidfeld in the seat.
 
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He did. A little late but he gave Webber and hand and said "weldone", just before when Webber got on the scale.
Yeah, wasn't that while enquiring what happened at the re-start, harassing the race director and making some more comments which lead to MW to sigh heavily as he left for the podium.

[EDIT] Just rewatched it. He didn't wait in Parc Ferme, he shook his hand quickly as MW came in, he then quized MW on what happened and had quite a loud conversation with the race director while MW was weighing in. All finished off by a rather appropriate sigh from MW as he leaves to go to the podium.
 
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I can't help but think...

The Stig = Michael Schumacher

The Stig does not like Rubens Barrichello. Coincidence?

:lol:

But seriously, Michael was out of order there. Looking at the image above, and the part after the wall, Schumacher forced the entire Williams car off the race track designated by the white lines. What if there had been a car coming out of the pitlane? What if he had misjudged the gap between his car and the wall? The ten place penalty is good enough, it should ensure he doesn't get any points at Spa.

Also, i'm used to Jenson Button being outqualified by Lewis Hamilton consistently now. But Jenson does seem to be getting a lot of bad luck recently.

What's worse is how he's had two excellent starts in the past two races, but then gets caught behind other cars at turn one and loses several places as a result. Today we saw Button wedged in by 4-5 cars at turn one. He couldn't get on the power until late and that allowed 2 or 3 more cars who carried the speed through the corner to pass also. We saw the same thing at Hockenheim with Vettel, how Button had got a great start but lifting off to prevent a collision, he was forced off the track and lost 4-5 places.

I guess it's all fair as Ferrari have had appalling luck recently with safety cars in particular. I wouldn't go as far as to say Red Bull have had bad luck because reliability is just as important as speed in this game. But now Button is having his bad luck. Lewis hasn't been hit by bad luck, reliability is his issue, he's lost at least 30 points from reliability, but that number is small compared to the amount Vettel has lost I guess.

Somebody above said that Spa is a good track for the Mclarens. Actually, I'd say now their F-Duct advantage has diminished and how the car is poor (Compared to the Red Bull and Ferrari) in the high speed corners, Spa is probably going to be the most difficult race of the season for them. I reckon both of the Saubers will outqualify both Mclarens, as the Sauber seems to be strong in the high speed corners.

I'm hoping we see Saubers and Williams' challenging for podium spots. Though I would like to see Mclarens on the front row in Spa, it's not going to happen.

Monza should be a different story though. With low speed corners & high speed/long straights, I'd bet on a Mclaren pole there.

EDIT:

Did anyone see the post-race drivers press conference? Vettel just kept going on an on... I bet he's worried that Mark Webber is once again asserting his dominance in the team. Who's the number 2 driver now? :lol:

I always felt Webber should have won the championship last season. Now he has a real chance to go for it. At this point I don't think either of the Mclaren drivers nor Vettel can stop him. I think in the last few races it will be all Webber vs Alonso.
 
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Save yourselves another year or two of pathetic and dirty performances and stick Heidfeld Kobayashi in the seat.

Fixed that big-time for yah :p

I'm surprised no one has questioned that pit-in maneuver of Vettel yet. Isn't the striped white line and the full white line there for a reason?

Vettel has got loads of talent, but he needs to calm down and stop pulling off the foolish moves that is costing him points.

I'm most impressed with Webber and Kobayashi today. Koba started on the last row, and yet he still brings home points for his team, only a few seconds away from his team-mate who didn't suffer a grid penalty. I haven't got anything more to say about Webber other than his insane speed today. Watching him do 20 qualifying laps after each other was fantastic! 👍
 
I'm surprised no one has questioned that pit-in maneuver of Vettel yet. Isn't the striped white line and the full white line there for a reason?

There is no rule that says they have to be inside the white line on pit entrance in F1.

Even at Silverstone where we saw GT1 drivers penalised, we saw nobody penalised. Despite the fact that everybody was cutting the entry line.
 
What did Vettel do today that constitutes as a stupid move?

Nothing stupid today but pretty lax to thinking that he could hold Alonso back from Webber by not keeping up with Webber when the safety car was out. Which cost him the race. Stupid from the last race for trying to block Alonso instead of just focusing on getting to the first corner first and stupid for assuming Webber would just pull aside when they crashed into each other from the other race. Fast just dosen't cut it he has to be mature enough to think straight when going head to head.
 
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That was a dirty move by MS, but at the same time one of the most beautiful overtakings I've ever seen. And by the way, that was significantly different than the Massa / Webber incident.

I wonder if Force India will have the same performance in Spa as they did last year. They definitely have the engine to do it.
 
I'm surprised no one has questioned that pit-in maneuver of Vettel yet. Isn't the striped white line and the full white line there for a reason?

I wasn't surprised that it was legal, more that he managed to do it without ripping the front wing off his RB6.

Vettel is a fantastic driver in good conditions(Read as: Practice and Qualifying) But he seems to not do very well under stress/in a race environment. Both this week and last week at Hockenheim, he had fantastic poles, and probably could have won the race(Arguable at the German GP) if he had managed to keep better consistancy.

To be honest, after watching some of the laps of him chasing Alonso, I think the only reason he kept so close to him was the car's quickness over the Ferrari. He had quite a few moments of lost traction, spearing off the track, taking wide corners, etc.

He's a fantastic driver, but sometimes he makes mistakes, admittedly he's human, but when you compare the driving styles of Vettel and Webber under pressure, it seems Webber performs much more consistently.
 
Fixed that big-time for yah :p

I'm surprised no one has questioned that pit-in maneuver of Vettel yet. Isn't the striped white line and the full white line there for a reason?

Vettel has got loads of talent, but he needs to calm down and stop pulling off the foolish moves that is costing him points.

I'm most impressed with Webber and Kobayashi today. Koba started on the last row, and yet he still brings home points for his team, only a few seconds away from his team-mate who didn't suffer a grid penalty. I haven't got anything more to say about Webber other than his insane speed today. Watching him do 20 qualifying laps after each other was fantastic! 👍

Bad pit entries are not punished it seems, Hamilton did far worse at China this year anyway.

I agree Kobayashi deserves a top seat but I doubt he will get it. Honestly, I'm not sure Mercedes is actually a step up anymore either as they are returning to their BAR/Honda days of going backwards.
I think Kobayashi is fine at Sauber, its a decent team with quite a bit of resources. He can stay there and continue to impress with those amazing starts and overtakes until a proper top team finally signs him (that is, a team thats always up front like McLaren, Ferrari or Renault).
 
Great job from Petrov. I have a lot of respect for him, hanging with the big boys in a much slower car. Also, kudos to the Sauber drivers! Definately a team to watch!

AND ALSOOOO well done to Hispania, Lotus and Virgin for all finishing the race! It might be slow, but it's progress!

I'm happy with this race. :)
 
I think Mercedes should start concentrating on developing their 2011 car, they don't have much left to fight for this season and they already seem to be going backwards through the field as it is. Kubica deserves a better seat as well, maybe not by looking at today's performance but he usually out drives that Renault. The only problem is, who can the driver's move up to? Ferrari seem content enough with Massa, The McLarens don't look like they will be in a hurry to change their lineup. The grid seems to be filling up with a lot of good drivers who have established themselves in their team.
 
What's wrong with the Renault seat? They have been ahead or on par with Mercedes the further we get into this season, they always have a good rate of development and have championship-winning potential. At this race they were even possibly faster than McLaren!
I don't see where else Kubica can go that is better beyond McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari and they all have confirmed line-ups for the short term.
After this season, I definitely would put Renault as a potential championship contender for 2011.

Also, I think people are still over-rating Kubica a little bit - as we can see with Petrov, the Renault is not a terrible car. Or are we going to suggest both Kubica and Petrov are dragging a dog of a car? Petrov is still a rookie, the difference between them is not entirely skill and its not just Kubica taking the car where it shouldn't be. Of course, he is maximising the Renault, but its not exactly Senna in the Toleman is it?
 
After watching the Grand Prix today, I can happily say nothing about Shumacher vs Barrichello because words cannot describe how close and dangerous that was. The FIA were right with his punishment although it should've been harsher.

One more slight move to the right would've ended up like this...which also happened today at Brands Hatch...


I'm happy for Webber and Petrov- both great drives- although I would've liked the latter to have battled harder with Hamilton. Unlucky for him but glad that Webber's now in the championship lead. Thought Vettel was quite unreasonable today.

The chaos in the pit lane could've been worse, but thankfully it wasn't. That will go down as a classic moment in F1 history I think. :p Renault were dangerous with that, awfully unlucky for Kubica.
 
I'm just happy that there was no controversy involving Alonso in this race :D

The Red Bulls are so much better than anything else that it's not even funny. Good job by Webber though in nursing the supersofts for over thirty laps.

I'm starting to doubt the racing abilities of Vettel though. He is fast, no doubt, when he's on his own but he doesn't seem to be able to race another driver. He never managed to put any real pressure on Alonso for nearly forty laps and that in a car that was over two seconds a lap quicker. Granted, Alonso did not make one mistake during that time in a vastly inferior car and it's almost impossible to pass but still.
 
I think the wake effects didn't help. And without the benefit of superior mechanical grip (as you can see with Barrichello vs. Schumacher), Vettel couldn't really do anything to gain an advantage.

I don't think that goes against Vettel's skill so much. The mistakes with the safety car and then his subsequent anger and mistakes trying too hard are better questions.
 
Oh no, i'm definately not comparing Kubica to Senna. I just think that he has long deserved atleast a chance to drive for one of the top teams to show what he can do. Until last weekend Massa looked liked the weakest of the top team's drivers but now, Ferrari seem very happy to keep him. Until this weekend though, Kubica had outperformed Petrov in every single qualifying session and had completely dominated him. In Monaco especially you saw how well he performed. They always say that Monaco is one of the few circuits left where the driver really can make a big difference. Also don't forget that the Toleman went on to become Bennetton, and they weren't half bad :sly:
 
I think the Renaults are being underrated and the drivers overrated. They`re both great pilots, well at least Kubica, Petrov is on the "good with potential" category imo because he still commits too many mistakes. My point is, most if not all of the guys on the better teams are there for a reason.
 
What Schumi did was absolutely deplorable. I'm a Schumacher fan myself and I, personally, am disgusted by this. Then again, a 10-place grid penalty won't hurt him much, as he usually has great starts.
 
I think the Renaults are being underrated and the drivers overrated. They`re both great pilots, well at least Kubica, Petrov is on the "good with potential" category imo because he still commits too many mistakes. My point is, most if not all of the guys on the better teams are there for a reason.

I agree to an extent.

IMO, the Renault is also the easiest car on the grid to drive by a fair margin, making it a car that is easier to extract maximum potential from on a consistent basis. It's really interesting watching Alonso's steering input from last year's Renault R29 to this year Ferrari F10. The Ferrari requires a ton of correction and input especially during low speed cornering compared to the Renaults (including the R30) of the past few years....cars like the F10 definitely looks a lot more demanding (requiring more skill and concentration) and also looks much less tossible to me.
 
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what makes SV spectacular in qualifying is the same thing that dulls his race performance - Downforce (or lack of it).

Sticking to FA like that the whole last half the race was exciting, but the RB6 got nothing but turbulence. It was just impossible to match the Ferrari's speed coming into and out of corners. his slip-ups and sloppiness was a canary in the coal mine for his whole aero package. frustrating as hell in traffic but on an open road Webber or Vettel can walk away from any car on the grid.
 
I'm starting to doubt the racing abilities of Vettel though. He is fast, no doubt, when he's on his own but he doesn't seem to be able to race another driver. He never managed to put any real pressure on Alonso for nearly forty laps and that in a car that was over two seconds a lap quicker. Granted, Alonso did not make one mistake during that time in a vastly inferior car and it's almost impossible to pass but still.

The Ferarri isn't vastly inferior... it's the only car on the grid that's nearly as quick as the Red Bulls... The thing is... we know Alonso is a great defender. Aside from the gaffe where he let both McLarens waltz past him a few races back, he's generally a good fighter. (which is what got him two world championships in a "slow" Renault)

I think the Renaults are being underrated and the drivers overrated. They`re both great pilots, well at least Kubica, Petrov is on the "good with potential" category imo because he still commits too many mistakes. My point is, most if not all of the guys on the better teams are there for a reason.

Vettel has gotten some awesome results out of a completely uncompetitive Red Bull in the past. While yes, I'm aware that Webber has outqualified Vettel at times, he doesn't seem to have the same raw pace... but makes up for it by being an intelligent driver.

It's hard to say any of the winning drivers in this sport are over-rated. Yes, you're extremely lucky if you get a competitive seat... but you need to have a lot of skill to make the most of that seat. And even if you don't have lightning quick reflexes like Kimi Raikkonen... if you're fit enough to last the race, smart enough to pick a good strategy and wise enough to preserve your car, you deserve all the points you can get.

If either Webber or Vettel were chumps, they'd be playing Robin to their team-mate's Batman, as Hekki did at McLaren when paired with Hamilton. Instead, they're fighting each other for wins.

I agree to an extent.

IMO, the Renault is also the easiest car on the grid to drive by a fair margin, making it a car that is easier to extract maximum potential from on a consistent basis. It's really interesting watching Alonso's steering input from last year's Renault R29 to this year Ferrari F10. The Ferrari requires a ton of correction and input especially during low speed cornering compared to the Renaults (including the R30) of the past few years....cars like the F10 definitely looks a lot more demanding (requiring more skill and concentration) and also looks much less tossible to me.

I think the new Ferrari is a little easier to drive than previous ones... certainly the Kimi car from a few seasons back was even wilder. The McLarens are the ones that seem an absolute mess now. Even when they were still faster in the earlier parts of the season, they never looked easy to drive.
 
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Great drive from Webber when it counted. If one of the Red Bulls wins the driver's championship, I would put good money on it being Webber.

Also a superb drive from Alonso. It was very much like one of his drives in 2005/6 for Renault. He was being pressured by Vettel, but didn't put a foot(tire?) wrong during the whole race.
 
The Ferarri isn't vastly inferior... it's the only car on the grid that's nearly as quick as the Red Bulls...


Not inferior as a whole. I was only referring to yesterday's race. For a few laps after Webber made his pit stop he managed to pull between two and three seconds per lap on Alonso and when the gap was sufficient he slowed down so that he was "only" a second or so quicker per lap. I would call that vastly superior.
 
Not inferior as a whole. I was only referring to yesterday's race. For a few laps after Webber made his pit stop he managed to pull between two and three seconds per lap on Alonso and when the gap was sufficient he slowed down so that he was "only" a second or so quicker per lap. I would call that vastly superior.

Oh.


That is, actually. :lol:

-

So... WTCC style weight penalties for Red Bull? To make the rest of the season interesting? :lol:
 
So... WTCC style weight penalties for Red Bull? To make the rest of the season interesting? :lol:

I'm not familiar with the specifics of those weight penalties... But putting 100Kg of ballast on the front of the Red Bull should make things far more interesting :lol:
 
What a frustratingly good race! Loved that pit stop malarky! Kobayashi had an awesome start, Petrov and Hulkenberg kicked arse!

How can their be so many ways that Vettel can have almost guaranteed victories taken from him? It's no wonder he's gets so angry all the time, he's had a good 70 or 80 points taken from him!
 
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