2010 Formula 1 Qantas Australian Grand Prix

[The Outlaw]

I hope all of you who are jumping on Hamilton's back (after a short radio transmission) where there to do the same to Ruben's after all of his complaining and team call outs last year!

 

[Ardius]

I hope all of you who are jumping on Hamilton's back (after a short radio transmission) where there to do the same to Ruben's after all of his complaining and team call outs last year!

It wasn't just a radio transmission, Lewis continued his comments off the track to the media. This is my reason for being critical anyway. Combined with the incident on Friday, its just a very bad weekend for Lewis overall.
I also felt the same way anyway about Rubens, but in his case its fair enough - its understandable he has paranoia about being number 2. In Lewis' case, he's making a big deal about a strategic decision that wasn't really wrong at the time (Lewis was complaining of graining, etc, so the team brought him in for new tyres). In the end it was a bad decision, but its not so bad that it warrants such an angry criticism of the team!
I mean, Lewis still would have finished 5th or maybe higher if it wasn't for Webber. Whereas for Rubens, he made that comment after he was looking at trying to win the race - from 11th on the grid Lewis wasn't going to win the race and the progress he made after the first few laps wasn't going to take him to victory.

 

[Fastas]

Talking of Rubens, does anyone else think he's doing a good job at Williams?

Finally, he's top dog, albeit at a less significant team. It's good to see him turn in a couple of good results.

 

[yeti]

I mean, Lewis still would have finished 5th or maybe higher if it wasn't for Webber. Whereas for Rubens, he made that comment after he was looking at trying to win the race - from 11th on the grid Lewis wasn't going to win the race and the progress he made after the first few laps wasn't going to take him to victory.

Not 100% sure about that - he was looking good for a 1-2 if he didn't pit?

Or at least a 1-3...

C.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Well Done Button. Great pitstop call and a deserved win.

Unlucky Vettel. The best car/driver combination on the grid and two wins gone elsewhere through no fault of his own. It must come good for him soon.

Massa did a good job - a Podium despite not being happy with his car all weekend. No way should he roll over and let Alonso through.

The Button/Alonso incident = racing incident. Even Ferrari agree about that one.

The two Webber/Hamilton incidents = racing incidents. They were trying to, shock horror, make passing moves!

Hamilton's pitstop would have worked if all the other cars at the sharp end had also pitted. They didn't so it didn't work. That's a jugment call and you can't blame someone for suggesting it when new tyres are worth a second a lap or whatever.

Passing is too difficult and it's the aerodynamics that are at fault. That and the fact that these are supposed to be the best race drivers in the world and it shouldn't be easy to pass them.

 

[The Outlaw]

I just watched the Hamilton/Webber incident on lap 56 once again, and IMO Webber was CLEARLY at fault for running into the back of Hamilton. Alonso broke late and protected the inside, while Webber followed him initially and then decided to pull out to the outside behind Lewis, where he then clipped Hamilton's rear due to braking too late and misjudging the situation. It was a simple matter of Webber being over eager and making someone else pay for his mistake.

Calling that a so called "racing incident" is being a bit too kind to Webber's carelessness and misjudgment in that situation.

 

[yeti]

Martin Whimarsh said that there needs to be a 3 second speed differential for overtaking...

With only tyres a factor - that's going to be very hard for the rest of the year...

Quite liked Eddie Jordans "Random Sprinklers"!!!

C.

 

[tibiquera]

Talking of Rubens, does anyone else think he's doing a good job at Williams?

Finally, he's top dog, albeit at a less significant team. It's good to see him turn in a couple of good results.

I always thought Barrichelo was a very good driver who always happened in the wrong place at the wrong time. Good to see him doing well.

Not 100% sure about that - he was looking good for a 1-2 if he didn't pit?

Or at least a 1-3...

C.

On the other hand, if Hamilton managed to get pass Alonso and Massa nobody would think McLaren got the wrong strategy. I was actually surprised Hamilton couldn't pass Alonso considering how much faster he was. I don't want to blame Hamilton for not passing, but given the circumstances I think McLaren did the right thing.

By the way, I really don't think Hamilton would've passed Kubica. And considering the way he was driving, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually lost a few places towards the end of the race if he hadn't stopped.

 

[Dravonic]

I just watched the Hamilton/Webber incident on lap 56 once again, and IMO Webber was CLEARLY at fault for running into the back of Hamilton. Alonso broke late and protected the inside, while Webber followed him initially and then decided to pull out to the outside behind Lewis, where he then clipped Hamilton's rear due to braking too late and misjudging the situation. It was a simple matter of Webber being over eager and making someone else pay for his mistake.

Calling that a so called "racing incident" is being a bit too kind to Webber's carelessness and misjudgment in that situation.

From where I stand Hamilton and Webber are both guilty of forcing hopeless passes. Trying to pass Alonso going wide on such a turn? Come on. Sure, nothing would've happened without Webber's own eagerness to pass, but I can't blame only him since both were doing the same thing.

 

[The Outlaw]

From where I stand Hamilton and Webber are both guilty of forcing hopeless passes. Trying to pass Alonso going wide on such a turn? Come on. Sure, nothing would've happened without Webber's own eagerness to pass, but I can't blame only him since both were doing the same thing.

The blame is on Webber from any angle you look at it. He was the one who initiated contact (not Hamilton) when it could have been easily avoided had he been more aware (and less heroic) of the placement of the two cars battling it out ahead. Trying to put part of the blame on Hamilton is rather laughable considering how he had no control over Webber's overzealousness and improper judgment.

As far as Hamilton going for a hopeless pass on Alonso, that was FAR from a hopeless attempt! Alonso had covered the inside down the straight approaching the turn where the incident happened, leaving Lewis with only one option once pulling out of the tow, and that was to take the outside upon entry. Alonso braked a bit too late while Lewis took the corner near perfectly in order to tuck right under Alonso's rear as they hit the apex. Due to the fact that Alonso broke very late and on the inside line, his exit speed was severely compromised as the footage showed (especially as he had a bit of oversteer exiting). Had Webber not punted Hamilton off at that moment, Hamilton could have very well pulled off something on the inside once they exited there. Proof of this is how close Rosberg got to passing Alonso once the others spun(from 5-6 cars lengths back at the apex lol), due to the fact that he had gotten a much more ideal run out of the corner versus Alonso. Fortunately for Alonso, he was aware of Rosberg closing in fast and closed the door on him before he could make a pass.

 

[daan]

Quite liked Eddie Jordans "Random Sprinklers"!!!

Eddie, pah!

Every single track should have a sprinkler system installed which may, or may not, be pressed into action at some point during the race. Wet/dry races are always exciting and this one was no exeption.

I knew I should have patented it...

Thread

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That was a great race. It's a shame we probably won't see one as exciting for a long time.

It looks like Hamilton is turning into the new Alonso. He needs his dad to comeback as manager.

 

[The Outlaw]

It looks like Hamilton is turning into the new Alonso. He needs his dad to comeback as manager.

Why? He drove a near flawless race considering his strategy.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Why? He drove a near flawless race considering his strategy.

He's letting too many of his emotions pour straight out.

After the race he said during an interview, something like:
"I'm satisfied with what I did during the race"
"I'll find out who made the strategy call"


What the hell is that? Teamwork Hamilton, teamwork

 

[The Outlaw]

He's letting too many of his emotions pour straight out.

After the race he said during an interview, something like:
"I'm satisfied with what I did during the race"
"I'll find out who made the strategy call"


What the hell is that? Teamwork Hamilton, teamwork

People want him to speak his mind, right? I rather see him say what's on his mind, rather than keep it inside and act all cheeky for the camera as he usually does

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

People want him to speak his mind, right?

Ha

It's a pretty big contrast to his behavior before.

 

[Alex.]

It sounded to me like "I'll find out who made the strategy call, and I'ma **** 'em up"

 

[Solid Lifters]

Great race! Made up for the last one, that's for sure.

Hamilton is such a sniveling toad! Even before the race interviews. Did you see those? Button is really getting to him, me thinks. Good.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Hamilton is such a sniveling toad! Even before the race interviews. Did you see those? Button is really getting to him, me thinks. Good.

Really good article from Will Buxton describing Button and Hamilton's relative relationships to the team in terms of strategy. The gist of the article is that Hamilton trusts to his strategist to the point where he's basically doing what the team tells him to, while Button is unafraid to make strategy calls on his own - everyone wrote his early tyre choice off, especially after he left the circuit on his outlap, but it was a brilliant move once the field sorted itself out.

The funny part is that given the way the race layed out, Button "took a gamble" while Hamilton "was robbed by the team". But if each had experienced the other's race, I'm willing to bet the fan reaction would have been that Hamilton's early stop was a "strategic masterpiece" while Button's second stop would have been written off as "total foolishness". Jenson Button doesn't get nearly enough credit as a racer simply because he's partnered with Hamilton. But the fact remains that Button out-qualified and out-raced Hamilton and took the team's first victory of 2010. Even if Hamilton beats Button at the end of the season, I'm willing to bet that it's going to be much closer than everyone assumes it will be.

 

[The Outlaw]

Really good article from Will Buxton describing Button and Hamilton's relative relationships to the team in terms of strategy. The gist of the article is that Hamilton trusts to his strategist to the point where he's basically doing what the team tells him to, while Button is unafraid to make strategy calls on his own - everyone wrote his early tyre choice off, especially after he left the circuit on his outlap, but it was a brilliant move once the field sorted itself out.

The funny part is that given the way the race layed out, Button "took a gamble" while Hamilton "was robbed by the team". But if each had experienced the other's race, I'm willing to bet the fan reaction would have been that Hamilton's early stop was a "strategic masterpiece" while Button's second stop would have been written off as "total foolishness". Jenson Button doesn't get nearly enough credit as a racer simply because he's partnered with Hamilton. But the fact remains that Button out-qualified and out-raced Hamilton and took the team's first victory of 2010. Even if Hamilton beats Button at the end of the season, I'm willing to bet that it's going to be much closer than everyone assumes it will be.

Well anyone can look like a genius when luck happens to be on their side. And in this race there happened to be a lot of situations which just happened to play out to Jenson's favor - Vettel's DNF, the Alonso/Schumacher/Button incident at turn 1 which completely played to Button's favor as he came out unscathed, Kubica being the mobile chicane in 2nd place allowing Button to get away while everyone else was stuck behind burning up their tires in the dirty air, and the unpredictable weather which fortunately for Button didn't turn his early switch to slicks into a disaster.

Regardless of all this, in the end it happened to be a great move made by Button and well deserved victory. But he better enjoy it while it last, because Hamilton won't take too kindly to getting beat

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

But the fact remains that Button out-qualified and out-raced Hamilton and took the team's first victory of 2010. Even if Hamilton beats Button at the end of the season, I'm willing to bet that it's going to be much closer than everyone assumes it will be.

At one point in the beginning, Hamilton was in front of Button. But that was the peak of Hamilton's race and probably the pit of Button's.

Well anyone can look like a genius when luck happens to be on their side. And in this race their happened to be a lot of situations which just happened to play out to Jenson's favor - Vettel's DNF, the Alonso/Schumacher/Button incident at turn 1 which completely played to Button's favor as he came out unscathed, Kubica being the mobile chicane in 2nd place allowing Button to get away while everyone else was stuck behind, and the unpredictable weather which fortunately for Button didn't turn his early switch to slicks into a disaster.

Regardless of all this, in the end it happened to be a great move made by Button and well deserved victory. But he better enjoy it while it last, because Hamilton won't take too kindly to getting beat

I think for Hamilton it's a case of the grass is greener on the other side. At the time, the call looked to be pretty good with some of the other cars pitting in too. They took a gamble and it didn't work out. If he got past the Ferraris or if they pitted later then the decision would've been smart. During the race it seemed like Alonso wanted to get new tires too, since he was asking about everybody else.

 

[Dravonic]

The blame is on Webber from any angle you look at it. He was the one who initiated contact (not Hamilton) when it could have been easily avoided had he been more aware (and less heroic) of the placement of the two cars battling it out ahead. Trying to put part of the blame on Hamilton is rather laughable considering how he had no control over Webber's overzealousness and improper judgment.

As far as Hamilton going for a hopeless pass on Alonso, that was FAR from a hopeless attempt! Alonso had covered the inside down the straight approaching the turn where the incident happened, leaving Lewis with only one option once pulling out of the tow, and that was to take the outside upon entry. Alonso braked a bit too late while Lewis took the corner near perfectly in order to tuck right under Alonso's rear as they hit the apex. Due to the fact that Alonso broke very late and on the inside line, his exit speed was severely compromised as the footage showed (especially as he had a bit of oversteer exiting). Had Webber not punted Hamilton off at that moment, Hamilton could have very well pulled off something on the inside once they exited there. Proof of this is how close Rosberg got to passing Alonso once the others spun(from 5-6 cars lengths back at the apex lol), due to the fact that he had gotten a much more ideal run out of the corner versus Alonso. Fortunately for Alonso, he was aware of Rosberg closing in fast and closed the door on him before he could make a pass.

I've watched it closely and indeed, looks like Hamilton's attempt wasn't hopeless after all. Due to Alonso's late braking, Hamilton had the chance to take the inside upon exit and possibly make the pass.

However, watch how Hamilton started braking way early. At first I thought the crash occurred because he braked too much and too early while Webber braked normally. I've had this happen to me in GT5P more than once and all I could do was push the brakes and watch as I hit the guy in front. That's why I didn't want to place the blame on Webber entirely. It catches you by surprise and there's pretty much nothing you can do. Specially when the car in front of you has no brake lights. But as I watched it closer, it became quite clear that Webber braked late along with Alonso, and well, there's no justifying that.

So yeah, I stand corrected. Hamilton's only blame for the incident was not knowing that Webber would screw up. And well, I can't blame him for not being able to predict the future.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well anyone can look like a genius when luck happens to be on their side. And in this race there happened to be a lot of situations which just happened to play out to Jenson's favor - Vettel's DNF, the Alonso/Schumacher/Button incident at turn 1 which completely played to Button's favor as he came out unscathed, Kubica being the mobile chicane in 2nd place allowing Button to get away while everyone else was stuck behind burning up their tires in the dirty air, and the unpredictable weather which fortunately for Button didn't turn his early switch to slicks into a disaster.

I'm not denying that luck is a factor - but a lot of people are writing Button's victory off as being entirely down to luck. It's pretty obvious that they're trying to discredit him because they think Hamilton is the better driver.

 

[The Outlaw]

I think for Hamilton it's a case of the grass is greener on the other side. At the time, the call looked to be pretty good with some of the other cars pitting in too. They took a gamble and it didn't work out. If he got past the Ferraris or if they pitted later then the decision would've been smart. During the race it seemed like Alonso wanted to get new tires too, since he was asking about everybody else.

Yea, tire strategy was a REAL gamble in this race (and a very interesting element of the race to watch IMO). Hamilton couldn't get around Kubica for the 2nd spot early on, so all he ended up doing was degrading his tires severely in the process. Of course by going in early for another set of softs they were banking on a few other teams doing the same, including Renault, but that just didn't happen to be the case in the end.

Of course looking back, Hamilton probably would have been best off taking it easy on his first set of softs and staying just far enough behind Kubica to where he wouldn't have had to deal with the dirty air which beats up the tires. If he had done this he could have possibly had enough pace over the Renault in the closing laps to pull something off. But as we know, how would anyone have known that would have been the best strategy at the time.

I've watched it closely and indeed, looks like Hamilton's attempt wasn't hopeless after all. Due to Alonso's late braking, Hamilton had the chance to take the inside upon exit and possibly make the pass.

However, watch how Hamilton started braking way early. At first I thought the crash occurred because he braked too much and too early while Webber braked normally. I've had this happen to me in GT5P more than once and all I could do was push the brakes and watch as I hit the guy in front. That's why I didn't want to place the blame on Webber entirely. It catches you by surprise and there's pretty much nothing you can do. Specially when the car in front of you has no brake lights. But as I watched it closer, it became quite clear that Webber braked late along with Alonso, and well, there's no justifying that.

So yeah, I stand corrected. Hamilton's only blame for the incident was not knowing that Webber would screw up. And well, I can't blame him for not being able to predict the future.

Glad you had a change of mind I just thought it was unfair to put any blame on Hamilton when he really had no control over what Webber was doing behind him. Webber even admitted himself it was his fault as he misjudged his braking and lost a bit of aero grip as he closed in on Hamilton's rear. Now if he would just be a bit more humble and less hypocritical from now on and not open his big witty mouth whenever anyone else screws up his race or qualifying session...because sometimes he forgets to look in the mirror at some of the erratic/reckless driving he is guilty of.

Webber was on a mission to take Hamilton out today it seemed Fortunately for Hamilton, he was able to avoid Mark on lap 16 when Mark misjudged his braking (once again ) by a huge margin, and went off into the kitty litter. Had Hamilton turned in just a bit sooner his race would have surely been done for.

I'm not denying that luck is a factor - but a lot of people are writing Button's victory off as being entirely down to luck. It's pretty obvious that they're trying to discredit him because they think Hamilton is the better driver.

And who might this be? Do we need to make a JB celebration thread to make you happy?

 

[niky]

People want him to speak his mind, right? I rather see him say what's on his mind, rather than keep it inside and act all cheeky for the camera as he usually does

I do. Yes... it comes off as being very petulant and Alonso-like... but you've got to let people see you've got the fire and drive to win. Do I think Alonso's an arrogant prat? Yes, I do! But it makes him that much more interesting a driver.

Earth to Hamilton: drop the corporate speak. Be yourself. And don't apologize for being yourself... Kimi never did...

From where I stand Hamilton and Webber are both guilty of forcing hopeless passes. Trying to pass Alonso going wide on such a turn? Come on. Sure, nothing would've happened without Webber's own eagerness to pass, but I can't blame only him since both were doing the same thing.

Quite a few I could respond to, but this is where it all comes together. (I know you've changed your mind, but I'd like to say something)

Alonso braked late and nearly ran Hamilton off the road. Same situation that Webber was in earlier... trying to defend the inside but not having enough grip/brakes/traction to stay on the inside, nearly forcing Hamilton off each time. Hamilton was way waaaaay off the outside of the racing line, and yet he had a Ferrari flying across his nosecone. That's just not what you expect.

Alonso wasn't on the racing line... period. And yet I hesitate to blame him, considering the state of that Ferrari's tires. Lewis had a clear line through the outside of the turn, leaving Alonso the entire rest of the corner. Webber was already lined up to follow Hamilton around the outside of Alonso... So he's already picked his line, and all of the sudden, there's a near-stationary Mclaren filling his visor.

Yes, he "should" have backed off. Just like Button "should" have waited a few more laps for a dryer track before pitting for new tires... but winning in racing is taking chances and making it stick. Webber was just unlucky this time... oh... and he braked way too late.

If Webber's gamble in tailing Hamilton had paid off, we'd be celebrating his fifth place. It didn't, we're bemoaning his 9th.

To quote:

Well anyone can look like a genius when luck happens to be on their side.

And yet Button's gamble landed him 1st... and it was an incredible, crazy, wild gamble... but in hindsight, absolutely the right one to take. Nobody goes fast on intermediates in the wet... and while everyone else is struggling to bring their slicks up to temperature, being the only guy on track on warmed-up slicks gives you a huge advantage. Ten seconds a lap is so big that you don't mind the occassional off. Button had the instinct to go for it, he knew it might not pay off, but he took it.

Button isn't the first canny strategist to play this card... my favorite mixed-condition victory was a come-from-behind win by Alex Zanardi in CART back in the mid-90s... where... being the first and only man crazy enough to gamble on slicks so close to the end of the race, he managed to catch and pass the leader right at the checkered flag... despite spinning out three times on cold slicks.

Button's win should give him confidence. While Lewis beat him handily in Bahrain, Button showed what he's got here... if their trajectories keep on this path, Button might be able to establish himself as Driver One, despite Hamilton being the faster driver. Yes... Prost-Senna... it will be a very interesting season for Mclaren.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And who might this be? Do we need to make a JB celebration thread to make you happy?

I'm not just talking about this thread, you know. I see it all over the place. Autosport, F1 Fanatic, F1 Rejects, etc.

All I'm saying is credit where credit is due - Button took a chance with his tyre strategy, but he wasn't bluffing with a low pair. He knew lap six was the best time to change, and he knew the option tyre was the best one to take. And he made them last for fifty-two laps. But people claim he lucked into it, that his decision to change tyres when he did as a last-ditch effort to make something of his race. The same people, I've noticed, who claim Hamilton was cheated out of certain victory by the team (they choose to ignore the fact that Lewis Hamilton is very aggressive on his tyres and would have lost his first set if he had ben chasing Button for the win). I'm willing to bet that if their positions were reversed, people would claim Hamilton's early stop was tactical brilliance and Button's second stop was his own stupid fault. People are judging them based on the fact that they're Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton, not on the individual merits of their race. Button's performance was sublime. Lewis Hamilton went through two sets of tyres in the same amount of time it took Button to go through one. That, I think, is pretty telling.

 

[Anghammarad]

Hmm, Button is OK in my book. He is a very very good racing driver, on the same level as Kubica and Massa and one step up, in my mind, from Rubens, Webber, Rosberg and so on. What he is not however, is one of the absolute best. He is no Schumacher, no Alonso, no Räikkönen and maybe no Hamilton either (the jury is still out on him).

 

[Ferrari_Tifoso]

His username says no. He was watching through red tinted glasses.

Alonso set the 10th fastest race lap. You could argue he was being held up by Massa, but Massa managed a faster lap than Alonso too.

Alonso finished 16 seconds behind button. Certainly he lost a lot more time in the spin, passing slower cars, and defending against Lewis. No red tinted glasses here, just common sense. Maybe some of you should remove your anti-rosso glasses.

 

[Famine]

Alonso finished 16 seconds behind button. Certainly he lost a lot more time in the spin, passing slower cars, and defending against Lewis. No red tinted glasses here, just common sense. Maybe some of you should remove your anti-rosso glasses.

And Button backed off once it became apparent that Kubica couldn't catch him, and preserved his tyres for fifty laps. I also recall he didn't waste the entire of his race stuck behind a slower teammate, getting frustrated and complaining over RT, unable to get past even when baulked by a Lotus.

So he was faster when he needed to be and smarter. And daan's current avatar is Gilles Villeneuve in his Ferrari days.

You see, the thing about common sense is that it's just not that common.

 

[daan]

I think for Hamilton it's a case of the grass is greener on the other side. At the time, the call looked to be pretty good with some of the other cars pitting in too.

Yep, at the time, Hamilton was being held up by Kubica, his tyres were graining, and the folk that had already stopped were lapping a second faster than everyone else. Those seem like ideal reasons to make a pit stop.

Also, having one car go non-stop, even though they didn't know if the tyres would last, and having one car take a pit stop for new tyres, you could argue that McLaren were covering the bases. If everyone's tyres had died in the last 10 laps, Hamilton would have won, and everyone would have been hailing a brilliant strategy call by Hamilton and McLaren.

Remember that F1 is if backwards....