2010 new teams discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ardius
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*badum pish!*

I'm waiting to see what Hispania is able to do. I don't want them to become the next member of F1Rejects.
 
orimarc
*badum pish!*
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Indeed. I'm hoping Ferrari can see the joke of complaining about excessively slow cars, when 19 other cars were trying to not to smash into the back of Ferrari's #2 car for a large part of 2009.

I doubt it though.
 
Famine
Indeed. I'm hoping Ferrari can see the joke of complaining about excessively slow cars, when 19 other cars were trying to not to smash into the back of Ferrari's #2 car for a large part of 2009.

I doubt it though.
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Badoer was present for only 2 races, and even so, he was no more than about 3 or 4 seconds off the pace, as much as I remember. But what do you expect from a guy, who wasn't even so great as an F1 driver, when he jumps in mid season after 10 years of no race action? Fisichella wasn't the slowest guy on track in the Ferrari either.
 
PJ-FFL
Badoer was present for only 2 races, and even so, he was no more than about 3 or 4 seconds off the pace, as much as I remember. But what do you expect from a guy, who wasn't even so great as an F1 driver, when he jumps in mid season after 10 years of no race action? Fisichella wasn't the slowest guy on track in the Ferrari either.
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The point is that Ferrari have no business berating the new teams on being in the way and off the pace, as its a tad hypocritical.
 
And so far up themselves I'm surprised they can still breathe.
 
Plus, Badoer was a Test Driver for 10 years, so he would have been pretty familiar with their cars...
 
Sureboss
And so far up themselves I'm surprised they can still breathe.
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The irony of it all is that the only time a Ferrari is going to be in earshot of a new team is when they're lapping one.
 
Ardius
Yes, I mentioned that in my team previews - but that prediction is for Bahrain - do you really think a car with no testing and two rookies is going to be anywhere other than back of the grid, Dallara or not? I will be very surprised if they are ahead of Virgin and Lotus at first unless there are some mechanical troubles during Qualifying or Practice.

Also, although Dallara are experienced, they are not immune from designing a bad car either, but I agree its unlikely. Its all guess work though as none of us know how good that car is.
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Why not? This is a sport where anything could happen. Although we can't take huge amounts of data from the pre-season test its obvious that Lotus and Virgin are far off the pace.

I'm not thinking of what Senna said when I say this but I think the experience of Dallara alone will be worth more than the CFD design.

With the Senna comments in mind, they should know aswell as anyone how fast their chassis is capable off if they compare it with GP2 times.
 
PeterJB
Plus, Badoer was a Test Driver for 10 years, so he would have been pretty familiar with their cars...
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Yea, but the 2009 ban on testing meant that he had no time with the new car, nor did he have any action in an F1 car until Valencia FP.
 
Only_in_f1
Why not? This is a sport where anything could happen. Although we can't take huge amounts of data from the pre-season test its obvious that Lotus and Virgin are far off the pace.

I'm not thinking of what Senna said when I say this but I think the experience of Dallara alone will be worth more than the CFD design.

With the Senna comments in mind, they should know aswell as anyone how fast their chassis is capable off if they compare it with GP2 times.
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Well, because they have never driven the car, they don't understand it yet and they won't be able to extract the maximum setup and hence time from it. I doubt it is so fast that it can overcome having no testing as well as beat more experienced drivers.
Also consider that both Lotus and Virgin are bringing updates to Bahrain, along with the rest of the teams. So we don't truly know everyones pace yet.

But considering the experience and difference in preparation, I can't see HRT being anywhere but last for Bahrain. I look forward to being proven wrong though, especially as Senna is on my fantasy F1 team.
 
Only_in_f1
Why not? This is a sport where anything could happen. Although we can't take huge amounts of data from the pre-season test its obvious that Lotus and Virgin are far off the pace.

I'm not thinking of what Senna said when I say this but I think the experience of Dallara alone will be worth more than the CFD design.

With the Senna comments in mind, they should know aswell as anyone how fast their chassis is capable off if they compare it with GP2 times.
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Irrespective of how good a team is at designing a car, it doesn't stand up to suggest that anyone can design a car, not even test it and then, turn up and be relatively successful. Mclaren were poor at the start of last year and they are one of the best organisations going.

Virgin's wing failure is a proof in point that no matter how well designed something is, no amount beard stroking is going to win a race. Without even running an on-track race simulation, I think Dallara/HRT are really going to struggle to get to the grid let alone race. One critical part failure on Friday and it's an expensive couple of days of testing for them.

Should they make the race, how are they going to be able to manage their fuel and tyres without a benchmark to performance, they are going to be seriously disadvantaged against the other new comers.
 
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Ardius
Well, because they have never driven the car, they don't understand it yet and they won't be able to extract the maximum setup and hence time from it. I doubt it is so fast that it can overcome having no testing as well as beat more experienced drivers.
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With less than a week till we find out what will happen, I still think they would beat 1 or 2 new drivers.

I rate Senna and Chandhok as talents I think they could be fine this season.


Fastas
Irrespective of how good a team is at designing a car, it doesn't stand up to suggest that anyone can design a car, not even test it and then, turn up and be relatively successful. Mclaren were poor at the start of last year and they are one of the best organisations going.
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Well looking at last season I wasn't to do with how successful you are or how much money you have it was down to getting the right design. Honda and Redbull got the designs right and prevailed.

I'm not saying they will be top 15 but I don't think they will be the worst team. Friday, reliability permitting, I expect to see them on track more often than not.

But we'll see.
 
Experience plays a huge factor - remember that Lewis took his horrible McLaren to 3rd in the first race of the season...

C.
 
^I think a better example is to compare all the experienced teammates of rookies, which most of the time beat the rookie.
I don't rate Senna hugely, he was good, but not spectacular, although same was said of Buemi and Kobayashi.
Chandhok was beaten by Senna by a fair margin and was even less spectacular in GP2. I think Senna will do well but I don't see them doing much in a new team with an untested car and a ragtag team. Will certainly be an interesting story to follow and hopefully it won't destroy their careers.

Its interesting that Badoer is mentioned earlier in this thread, as he is an example of a shining talent in junior series who beat experienced drivers (Alboreto) and suffered rotten luck in backender teams, not to mention being short-changed for Salo...and then given the chance to embarass himself.
 
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Only_in_f1
Kobayashi hardly set the world alight and look at him now
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I think he set the world alight in F1 though... and he burned Naknak too!!!

C.
 
It's an interesting problem....despite several attempts, there has yet to be a feeder series that translates to F1 seamlessly. Does anybody know which has had more success in predicting a driver's performance in F1?
 
SUPER NUMBBER
It's an interesting problem....despite several attempts, there has yet to be a feeder series that translates to F1 seamlessly. Does anybody know which has had more success in predicting a driver's performance in F1?
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To be fair..most of them have been good, as most of the champions have usually gone on to further success. Its just some have good or bad luck when they get to F1 level.
The problem with spec series is that they still favour one driver's style over another. Say the GP2 car favoured Hamilton's style but not Alonso's, it would naturally mean Hamilton would look better than Alonso despite them being equally good given good machinery.
So although spec series give everyone the same car, they do not give everyone the same chance.
And it doesn't end there either, there are even better teams than others, which will help with setup, strategy and pit stops.

I don't think there has been any single series that has brought the most success particularly, though I think British F3 has produced a lot of talent. Old F3000 and now GP2 are the main series to watch really, my advice is to watch or read up on the details of the races rather than look at results, as this is where you usually can tell how good or bad a driver is.

Basically the problem is that F1 cars are tailored to driver's needs, whereas the feeder series tend to use generic chassis for everyone.
 
Okay then, sorry to bring this thread back up, but I think that my little stats are not worthy of a new thread. After the first two Grand Prix, it is clear that the new teams are not quite on the pace. However, a lot of people are starting to follow the David Vs. David battle that is the "race within a race" between HRT, Virgin and Lotus. I have decided to make a quantative measure of this, and present to you:

THE 2010 NEW TEAMS CHAMIONSHIP!​

Bascially this will just be a curio for those that want to follow it. As there are 3 new teams (not counting Sauber or Mercedes, I think we all know why), each fielding 2 cars, I will keep a points tally for drivers and constructors. This way we can compare the teams' race results over the season. Points will follow a 10-6-4-3-2-1 model, with drivers having to complete 75% of a race to score. This means that reliability will be important.

Okay then, now that we have read that block of tests, onto the Bahrain results.


Bahrain Results

1. Heikki Kovalainen
2. Jarno Trulli
N/C
Bruno Senna
Timo Glock
Lucas Di Grassi
Karun Chandhok

Points after Bahrain:

Drivers
Kovalainen 10
Trulli 6
Senna 0
Glock 0
Di Grassi 0
Chandhok 0

Constructors
Lotus 16
HRT 0
Virgin 0

Melbourne results

1. Heikki Kovalainen
2. Karun Chandhok
3. Timo Glock (finished more than 75%)
N/C
Lucas Di Grassi
Bruno Senna
Jarno Trulli

Points after Melbourne:

Drivers

Kovalainen 20
Chandhok 6
Trulli 6
Glock 4
Senna 0
Di Grassi 0

Constructors

Lotus 26
HRT 6
Virgin 4

Feel free to discuss, will post updated results each round.
 
By this scoring mechanism- yes! Stange but true. Remember, strangethings happen in points championships!
 
HRT are beating Virgin because they completed a race - To finish first - first you have to finish...

C.
 
Indeed Yeti, that is half the fun of this mini championship! Reliability runs!
 
I said this in the Aus GP thread but I think it should be said again:
Congragulations to Chandhok and HRT for finishing your first race, a mighty job by Colin Kolles and his team to manage that against all odds, beating a far better prepared team (Virgin). 👍
Close to the points for Lotus too today, if Webber and Hamilton had retired, they would have been very close!
 
:lol: This new teams mini championship is fun though. Looking forward to it Senamic ;)👍

Keeping the tension up of who's going to wear the stewardess uniform :p
 
And so ends the sad tale. Amazing that they went from the most-hyped new team with the "3 years planning" and "unique style of organisation" to not even having a car built and looking less credible than a Serbian con-man's team!
 
Smells like, VICTORY!

To any US formula 1 promotion fanboys, I am not against the concept of having more US involvement in F1 provided it is up to scratch. By the same token, I am in full support of more involvement from Estonia, Lybia, Iran, South Africa, Denmark, Rep. of Ireland et al provided they are up to scratch.

So a toast to the death of a disgusting blemish on this sport, that simply happened to have the support of a powerful nation. I will shed as few tears over it as I did the Serbian effort (which, just as USF1 was not truly a US national team, StephanGP was not a truly Serbian national team). Good riddance to bad column inches.
 
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