2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix of Europe

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by TenEightyOne, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    Circuit Length: 3.368 miles (5.419 km | Race Length: 57 laps | Race Distance: 191.97 miles (308.883 km)

    Lap Record: 1:38.683 - T Glock (2009) (122.866 mph / 197.691 kmh)


    Tyre Choice

    Pirelli have announced that the Medium compound will make its first appearance of the 2011 season. The medium tyre will be the
    'Prime' choice and the Soft compound that we've seen in the last two races will be the 'Option'. [Pirelli Link]
    Update from Pirelli after FP2: "Bearing in mind track evolution, the soft tyre seems to be about a second per lap quicker than the medium."

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    Weather Forecast

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    Top 5 Qualifiers (2010)

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    Top 5 Finishers (2010)

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    Back to Europe

    After a thrilling race in Montreal it's time for F1 to begin the European leg in earnest.

    Valencia is the fifth circuit to host the European Grand Prix in its own right and is becoming well known as a track that tests a driver's concentration to the limit. It's already been the scene of some controversy after Ferrari's protests about Hamilton passing the SC in 2010, an incident which led to the change in Section 40 of the race rules... the same amendment that Hamilton and Button fell foul of in Montreal this year.

    The most memorable moment of Valencia 2010 was undoubtedly Webber's spectacular crash after he collided with the back of Kovalainen's Lotus. Valencia is one of those circuits that shows you just how strong F1 cars need to be. This race will be the last time that cars run hot-blown diffusers at their full potential; from Silverstone onwards cars will be limited to 10% maximum throttle over-run when the accelerator isn't depressed.

    More Double-DRS

    Valencia will be the second race to feature a Double-DRS zone and once again there will be a single activation point. Valencia's 5-day forecast isn't yet available but it seems likely that the race will be dry. Thrilling though the race at Montreal was, we got to see (comparatively) little DRS action but I suspect that a dry race at Valencia may more than make up for that!

    Free Practice 1 Times

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    Free Practice 2 Times

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    Free Practice 3 Times

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    Qualification Times Updated session by session, use Ctrl+F5 if you think you're seeing an older display!

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    Race Results and Lap Chart

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    Driver Standings

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    External Links

    [Satellite View of Circuit] - [Interactive Circuit Guide] - [2010 Race Edit @ Formula1.com]
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  2. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    Again, not Tuesday yet.
     
  3. Tesla

    Tesla Premium

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    2 Hours until Tuesday at the least. Plus, you should add an onboard lap, tire information (if available) and a weather forecast :tup:
     
  4. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    First run out for the Medium compound tyres (white logos)!
     
  5. BobK

    BobK Premium

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    Wow, it's Tuesday already? Did I sleep through Monday or something?

    Meh, the most likely race of the season to be a procession. Although, that could be said of Monaco too, and that came out all right this year.
     
  6. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    Possibly so, but there's a good slipstream down to the DRS detection zone and then two runs on the wing. If Vettel's opponents can keep him close then it could be interesting.

    You can't rule out Safety Cars either due to the constricted nature of the circuit (much like Montreal!).

    PS... it's 3:30 into Tuesday morning now ;)
     
  7. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    Forecast says Fog all weekend, this could be interesting...
     
  8. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    I'm struggling to remember the last GP hit by fog... I'm guessing it would be Zandvoort (Dutch GP) or Spa?

    A wiki quicky shows that Jackie Stewart and Jim Clark had notable wins in foggy conditions at Nurburgring and Spa Francorchamps respectively - I haven't yet found a record of any race suspensions due to fog. I'm sure someone here will know if it's ever happened!

    Meteorologically you have to wonder if the heat generated by the cars along with the aero turbulence would actually thin any fog that was lying within the confines of Valencia's walls?
     
  9. YellowG1

    YellowG1

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    Very unlikely, considering airliners don't really dissipate fog. Best remedy for fog is prolonged sun. In any event, if there's fog, I imagine the race will be red flagged.

    Anyway, hopefully we'll see some passing this year.
     
  10. PeterJB

    PeterJB Premium

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    Fog: The only thing that can make this GP interesting :D
     
  11. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

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    INB4 safety car start.
     
  12. CarolinaBlue704

    CarolinaBlue704

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  13. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Gonna have my eye on Schumacher this weekend. Hopefully his performance at Canada wasn't a fluke of sorts.
     
  14. lukecfc

    lukecfc

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    Double DRS activation points? and right after Canada too? What are the FIA playing at. There have been many overtakes in the past without DRS. The first few races this year were alright, the defending driver had a chance at keeping his position, but in Canada, drivers were helpless as another driver just drove past them on the straights. Where is the skill in driving past someone in a straight line? I thought the DRS was supposed to put the attacking driver in a position to overtake, not do it for them. According to Autosport, the FIA called the double DRS in Canada "highly successful" :censored: come on, were they even watching the race? If Ferrari was successful at Canada, it's not because of the DRS. No matter how many DRS zones they put in, Ferrari won't win until they build a faster car.
     
  15. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    New engine mapping ban for Valencia. The Silverstone ban still applies; this one just forces teams to run the same engine maps in qualifying and the race. I'm surprised the FIA didn't ban this sooner.
    It has nothing to do with creating more overtaking. In fact, it appears to be aimed at creating less, because while there are two DRS zones, there is only one activation point.

    While we have seen a lot of passes in the early races, a fair percentage of that involved Driver A passing Driver B, only to have Driver B re-pass Driver A a lap or two later. Twin DRS zones with a lone activation point will do two things: 1) it lets a pursuing driver have a second bite at the apple if he cannot get past in the first zone, and 2) if a driver gets past, it enables him to open up a gap in the second zone and try to move up the field since you're naturally slower when you drive defensively.
     
  16. J-PaP

    J-PaP

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    Sorry I know I've missed something but why are they introducing these bans on the mapping mid way through the year?

    What rules are they breaking which they didn't break at the start of the year?

    It just all looks more like an attempt to slow down red bull than anything.
     
  17. dhandeh

    dhandeh Premium

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    I'm sure the combination of DRS + Pirellis + KERS should make this a more eventful grand prix, than previous years, at this location.
     
  18. Ardius

    Ardius

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    ^As always, the FIA like to ban things they don't like. This time the FIA feel that the off-throttle engine maps are effectively "moveable aero parts" or "driver adjusted parts" and they don't seem to like this happening mid-corner.

    So from Silverstone onwards (originally it was going to be Catalunya) the amount of throttle allowed when the driver is not pressing the throttle pedal is now only up to 10%.

    I don't know what has caused them to introduce this qualifying-race engine map rule too but it will be related to that.

    Its not just going to affect Red Bull, it will affect almost every team as nearly all of them use this software and technique.
    The only teams who will possibly benefit are Williams, Sauber, Virgin and Hispania (and maybe Lotus) as they all do not have the off-throttle design or have been unable to make it work for them.

    Every other team will be hampered by this, especially Renault. They can't easily change the exhaust designs now, so its probably going to hurt them a bit.

    For next year, I think the teams are requesting a rule for exhuasts to only exit on the top of the bodywork like they did pre-2010.

    Personally I think Cosworth has been lobbying for this change as they have reportedly had trouble creating the right engine mapping software and making it work for their engine. Ever since they announced their return in 2009, Cosworth admitted the main area they were going to be lacking from the other engine suppliers is the advances made in engine management software since 2006. It seems they are still behind the ball in this area as its notable that the 3 Cosworth teams are the ones struggling to make off-throttle blown diffusers work.
     
  19. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    Thats what I'm also hoping for because Valencia needs all the help it can't get!
     
  20. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The teams have been running them since the start of the year, but because of the advantages it offers, teams have taken pains to keep the idea under wraps for as long as possible, knowing full well that they will eventually come to light. So they've been breaking the rules all year long, it's just taken time for details of the system to come to light. And the FIA has also been forced to make a ruling on it.

    The FIA has ruled that it is a moveable aerodynamic device. The blown diffuser concept routes exhaust gasses over the diffuser to create downforce, but this is dependent upon throttle being open. More gasses flow over the diffuser when the driver is accelerating, and since he doesn't have the throttle open through the corners, there is less downforce than on the straights. The off-throttle blown diffuser uses engine mapping to keep air and exhaust gasses flowing through the engine and the exhaust manifold as if the throttle were wide open, even when the driver is under heavy braking. This produces more downforce in the corners, enabling the driver to go faster.

    Because the aggressive engine maps are essentially creating downforce under conditions when they would normally not, and using the moving parts of the engine to do so, the FIA has decided that it is a moveable aerodynamic device. It's hardly a conspiracy against Red Bull, since everyone but the Cosworth-powered teams (Virgin, Williams and Team Fernandes), Sauber and Toro Rosso are using it.
     
  21. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Last year's GP wasn't too bad. A fair bit of action:
    -Webber/Kovalainen crash
    -Kobayashi's great drive to 7th, running with the front runners as high as 3rd and matching their pace!
    -Drama with the Hamilton-safety car incident.
    -Senna/Glock fight right in front of the leaders.
     
  22. Ardius

    Ardius

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    1. Cosworth teams are Williams, Virgin and Hispania.
    2. Lotus do run the off-throttle blown diffuser.
    3. Sauber and Williams have tried to run or are currently running it too but are struggling to get it working.

    :p

    Oops, double post, rare one for me.
     
  23. J-PaP

    J-PaP

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    Thanks for the answer. Only reason I mentioned red bull specifically though is that from what I've read they are the ones to have perfected it. Particularly given how much better pace the cars seem to have in qualifying compared to in the race.
     
  24. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Yeah, Red Bull have supposedly the best system but I don't think it will drop them significantly behind McLaren. Red Bull's real weapon is Newey's aero design. I think its enough to keep them ahead of if not level with McLaren even after this ban.
    McLaren will also lose the system so its going to lose them time too.
     
  25. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The reason why it might hurt Red Bull is because Red Bull have recognised the straight-line limitations of the Renault RS27, and so have built a car that gets its speed from the way it takes the corners.
    Between Webber's backflip, Hamilton's safety car debacle, and Ferrari getting nine drivers penalised because they didn't like the way the Hamilton thing was handled, last year's European Grand Prix was certainly eventful ...
     
  26. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    The devil's in the detail... in the FIA terminology there is a single 'Detection Point', there are two 'Activation Points'.

    As you know (but I'll explain it for those who still don't) the car has to be within 1s of the car it's following as they cross the detection point (in this case it's one of the sector marks I believe). This only applies during races, of course, and only when the track is "DRS Enabled" by Race Control.

    As they cross Activation Point 1 they can use the Drag Reduction System, this will disable itself when the driver brakes (or at the end of Activation Zone 1).

    As they reach Activation Point 2 they can use it again, and once again it disables itself when the driver brakes (at the end of Activation Zone 2).

    If drivers press the button in an 'illegal area' then the DRS will not operate as they cross into the legal zone. Drivers will have to reselect DRS. This is, I presume, to stop drivers just keeping their thumb on the button.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011
  27. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Uh, no. Not even close.

    DRS has no time limit on it. That's KERS. There's also no delay to the DRS device; if a driver pulls the trigger/pushes the button too soon, it simply won't open. There is no penalty for using it too early, especially since the driver cannot actually see the line on the track. He has to rely on the heads-up display telling him he can use it.

    Please don't try explaining something if you don't understand it.
     
  28. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    The timed delay as mooted by TWG didn't in fact happen - my apologies. It would help if the FIA had actually written the specs into the rules as they intended. The delay is now human, if you're holding the button as you cross the AZ line then your DRS won't deploy until you reselect it. That is definite fact.

    The KERS thing... yup, brain fade. Still, that doesn't mitigate such a high handed or arrogant response. I suspect that deep down you are potentially human too.

    Your own explanation was deeply flawed when you explained that there was a single activation zone, perhaps I could return your advice?

    EDIT: Weather forecast in OP updated. The only weather forecast I can find for fog is at F1's own homepage... everywhere else thinks it should be a fine, dry weekend.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011
  29. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    My explanation was flawed because of the incorrect usage of a particular word. Your explanation was flawed because of a fundmental misunderstanding of the material.
     
  30. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne Premium

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    At least we eventually arrived at a position of mutual understanding - and that's of fundamental importance.

    Back on-topic-proper; why is Formula1.com predicting fog when noone else is, least of all the meteos local to Valencia? Are they trying to get us excited about the potential for another 5-hour race session? :D