2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix of Europe

  • Thread starter Thread starter TenEightyOne
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It's a rare confluence of the Tramontane and the Libeccio - a cold northerly wind meeting with a humid south-westerly. The hot air of the Libeccio rises, but the cool air of the Tramontane forces the humidity down. It forms fog over the Mediterranean in the middle of the northern summer. The fog usually burns off from the sun by mid-morning.
 
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It's a rare confluence of the Tramontane and the Libeccio - a cold northerly wind meeting with a humid south-westerly. The hot air of the Libeccio rises, but the cool air of the Tramontane forces the humidity down. It forms fog over the Mediterranean in the middle of the northern summer. The fog usually burns off from the sun by mid-morning.
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I don't often look at your posts with that much respect :D

Did you seriously know that already or have you been having a Google?

I'm off to memorise that info so that I can casually drop it into conversation at a later date :)
 
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The reason why it might hurt Red Bull is because Red Bull have recognised the straight-line limitations of the Renault RS27, and so have built a car that gets its speed from the way it takes the corners.

Between Webber's backflip, Hamilton's safety car debacle, and Ferrari getting nine drivers penalised because they didn't like the way the Hamilton thing was handled, last year's European Grand Prix was certainly eventful ...
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All that was from just one incident though. Previous years have been non eventful.
 
dhandes
All that was from just one incident though. Previous years have been non eventful.
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That's certainly true, but you could say the same about the previous iterations of all this year's GPs so far.

We've had a very eventful season up until now, that's got to be a combination of four things; off-throttle diffusion, KERS, DRS and Pirelli's quick wearing compounds.

We're losing off-throttle diffusion from Silverstone onwards (at least more than 10% of it) so it'll be interesting to see how that impacts the performance of the front running teams. As it is I think Valencia could be the most eventful race we've seen there... because for the most part it's given us fairly dull races until now.
 
interludes
It's a rare confluence of the Tramontane and the Libeccio - a cold northerly wind meeting with a humid south-westerly. The hot air of the Libeccio rises, but the cool air of the Tramontane forces the humidity down. It forms fog over the Mediterranean in the middle of the northern summer. The fog usually burns off from the sun by mid-morning.
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I've got to side with TenEightyOne here. That's some impressive knowledge. It reminds me of when you had the Barney Stinson avatar for some reason.
 
interludes
It's a rare confluence of the Tramontane and the Libeccio - a cold northerly wind meeting with a humid south-westerly. The hot air of the Libeccio rises, but the cool air of the Tramontane forces the humidity down. It forms fog over the Mediterranean in the middle of the northern summer. The fog usually burns off from the sun by mid-morning.
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Nah, I reckon the cause of it is the fog.
 
TenEightyOne
Did you seriously know that already or have you been having a Google?
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I have to admit that I already knew it. I'm student teacher at the moment, and to get some experience, I teach part-time at a local high school until I graduate. I usually take whatever they throw me (because there are no guarantees as to how much work I get), and of late I've been running with a year nine geography class. We've been covering weather.
 
You teach that to year nines? All I can hear in my head is the song for "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" which apparently I am not.
 
I teach the syllabus to year nine. Part of the syllabus focuses on weather. And part of the unit examines weather processes. It's true, I don't teach them the names of Mediterranean winds, but I do teach them how fog forms. In the case of Valencia, all I had to do was work out which winds would perform which functions: the Libeccio is a humid south-easterly wind, while the Tramontane is a cold northerly. The warm aid of the Libeccio naturally rises, but the Tramontane is a cross-wind that cools the air. Because the air becomes cooler and heavier, it forces the humidity carried by the Libeccio back down, forming fog.
 
Back on topic, I'm expecting a strong showing from Lewis Hamilton. After a couple of messy races, I'm sure someone has had a word in his ear and made him aware of what he needs to do. It's been proved that the mclaren can win races, he just needs to bide his time.
 
@interludes; good stuff! I remember my training fondly... it was a rough school and I taught English, Music and ICT. ICT was the only popular one, but only before the school techs got the filters sorted out :D. In the UK we have to teach the often irrelevant National Curriculum. Bleuch.

Back on topic: McLaren don't, in my opinion, have a great chance at the championship. Still they act like the Monty Python knight who's just lost an arm. "It's a flesh wound!".

The eternally optimistic McLaren line sounded hollow at the end of last season (We can still win... we're in with a chance...), and it sounds hollow now. Mathematically they DO have a chance, realistically it's hard to imagine.

I wonder if they should focus on what they CAN do rather than what they MIGHT.

I've gained a bit of respect for Ferrari this season (lifelong fan, of course... but it's not an easy ride :) ) because under Stefano Domenicali they seem to be able to admit that they have real problems. Admittedly they've tried to fix some of that with the age-old strategy of Sack Everybody...
 
TenEightyOne
@interludes; good stuff! I remember my training fondly... it was a rough school and I taught English, Music and ICT. ICT was the only popular one, but only before the school techs got the filters sorted out :D. In the UK we have to teach the often irrelevant National Curriculum. Bleuch.

Back on topic: McLaren don't, in my opinion, have a great chance at the championship. Still they act like the Monty Python knight who's just lost an arm. "It's a flesh wound!".

The eternally optimistic McLaren line sounded hollow at the end of last season (We can still win... we're in with a chance...), and it sounds hollow now. Mathematically they DO have a chance, realistically it's hard to imagine.

I wonder if they should focus on what they CAN do rather than what they MIGHT.

I've gained a bit of respect for Ferrari this season (lifelong fan, of course... but it's not an easy ride :) ) because under Stefano Domenicali they seem to be able to admit that they have real problems. Admittedly they've tried to fix some of that with the age-old strategy of Sack Everybody...
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Is that the same McLaren that Hamilton lead the Championship for last year until a string of no scores?

Or is it the McLaren that has consistently been the only proper opposition that red Bull have had over the last season and a half?

That seems a long way away from Monty Python to me.
 
TenEightyOne
The eternally optimistic McLaren line sounded hollow at the end of last season (We can still win... we're in with a chance...), and it sounds hollow now. Mathematically they DO have a chance, realistically it's hard to imagine.
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Vettel only had a mathematical chance of winning the championship in Abu Dhabi last year ...
 
Tired Tyres
Is that the same McLaren that Hamilton lead the Championship for last year until a string of no scores?

Or is it the McLaren that has consistently been the only proper opposition that Red Bull have had over the last season and a half?

That seems a long way away from Monty Python to me.

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Vettel only had a mathematical chance of winning the championship in Abu Dhabi last year ...
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Ouch, should have kept my mouth shut :D

It is indeed the same McLaren who we know can perform very well... and who we also know drop scores through silly mistakes and tactical errors. They've got a fundamentally good car and arguably two of the best drivers in the world. I still see them losing points on the prat-perch more than on the track.

@Interludes: Vettel's chance was mathematical but it constituted a greater likelihood for him than for either of the McLaren drivers. The odds at that point were on Alonso right up until Petrov's "Unpassable Wing" hove into view.

What I guess I was trying to say (rather hamfistedly) was that McLaren's corporate optimism is sort of... irritating. It's as if everything that happens, the passion and the noise and the fury and the adrenalin goes through some kind of beige-filter before being condensed into a blandly dispassionate Ron-text.

Despite being a Ferrari fan my real love is F1 itself; I see Red Bull partying, I see Ferrari putting their fists through windows (Sao Paulo :) ), I see McLaren wondering if they have enough paperclips to last for the next fiscal quarter. They don't need to be like that!
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TenEightyOne
@interludes; good stuff! I remember my training fondly... it was a rough school and I taught English, Music and ICT. ICT was the only popular one, but only before the school techs got the filters sorted out :D. In the UK we have to teach the often irrelevant National Curriculum. Bleuch.

Back on topic: McLaren don't, in my opinion, have a great chance at the championship. Still they act like the Monty Python knight who's just lost an arm. "It's a flesh wound!".

The eternally optimistic McLaren line sounded hollow at the end of last season (We can still win... we're in with a chance...), and it sounds hollow now. Mathematically they DO have a chance, realistically it's hard to imagine.

I wonder if they should focus on what they CAN do rather than what they MIGHT.

I've gained a bit of respect for Ferrari this season (lifelong fan, of course... but it's not an easy ride :) ) because under Stefano Domenicali they seem to be able to admit that they have real problems. Admittedly they've tried to fix some of that with the age-old strategy of Sack Everybody...
Click to expand...

Button and Hamilton lead the WDC last year at different points and both were in contention till near the end.

McLaren do have a chance to win this year, yes, realistically. We still have over half the season to go, anything can happen and in Formula 1, it usually does.

Just because Vettel has had a dominant season so far doesn't mean its unrealistic to think he could lose the championship. Button had a dominant first half too in 2009 but Vettel was right in contention at the end.

TenEightyOne
[
What I guess I was trying to say (rather hamfistedly) was that McLaren's corporate optimism is sort of... irritating. It's as if everything that happens, the passion and the noise and the fury and the adrenalin goes through some kind of beige-filter before being condensed into a blandly dispassionate Ron-text.

Despite being a Ferrari fan my real love is F1 itself; I see Red Bull partying, I see Ferrari putting their fists through windows (Sao Paulo :) ), I see McLaren wondering if they have enough paperclips to last for the next fiscal quarter. They don't need to be like that!
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Why should McLaren just give up? Why is it any different to any other team stating they can still win? Midway in 2009, Red Bull were saying they can still win. Even this year Ferrari have stated they can still win (though they have recently admitted that if they haven't improved by Silverstone there isn't much chance).
The second paragraph in this quote reveals all really - its not about McLaren being overly optimistic but more about you not liking them for whatever reason.

I personally don't really like McLaren but I actually think they have been a little less corporate since Whitmarsh took over. I don't see whats annoying about claiming they are still in the title fight - they are still in with a chance!
 
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Ardius
The second paragraph in this quote reveals all really - its not about McLaren being overly optimistic but more about you not liking them for whatever reason.

I personally don't really like McLaren but I actually think they have been a little less corporate since Whitmarsh took over. I don't see whats annoying about claiming they are still in the title fight - they are still in with a chance!
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I don't dislike them... in fact my Dad Dance when Button passed Vettel at Montreal is already the stuff of family legend. There aren't any teams I dislike, I hope I've cleared that up :D

McLaren have a massive pool of talent at their feet. I just wonder if their eyes are mistakenly lifted to the horizon instead. They can win both championships from their current placings and I'd love to see them do it - everyone loves the underdog (apart from the dog under my sofa at the moment... but she's upset about the new cat and is having obvious-sulks).

I just... well... I don't know. They're like a firm of extremely fast accountants ;)
 
Ardius
Button and Hamilton lead the WDC last year at different points and both were in contention till near the end.

McLaren do have a chance to win this year, yes, realistically. We still have over half the season to go, anything can happen and in Formula 1, it usually does.

Just because Vettel has had a dominant season so far doesn't mean its unrealistic to think he could lose the championship. Button had a dominant first half too in 2009 but Vettel was right in contention at the end.
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Especially when the blown diffuser ban comes in to effect, that could throw it wide open.
 
I hope someone has spoken to Lewis about his driving and calmed him down, but I hoped for the same thing after Monaco...

Not sure that the latest blown diffuser rule change will make much difference unfortunately though, I still think Red Bull will have a strong advantage on Saturday with the rest needing to be better Sunday (Namely McLaren!). Ferrari seem mildly average both days at the moment and are languishing in an unopposed third place right now.

I think Red Bulls qualifying pace is more down to an effective DRS system. Race pace is down purely because being out front means it can't be used! Lack of KERS hurts as well, but I noticed at Cananda the rate at which Mark Webber was streaming past Schumacher compared to Button from the overhead shot, Webber was no where near passing Schumacher, and then all of a sudden it is like his turbo kicks in when he passes the activation line.

Looking at the DRS systems themselves, Red bulls opens a large slot at the top of the wing whilst McLaren's opens a slot which appears smaller (just the view, restricted to the same regulations of course) and in the middle of the wing. This design betters the rear wing efficiency when closed, but doesn't offer much when DRS is activated....
 
I'd say that the blown diffuser is the reason Red Bull can open the wing so early.
 
Tired Tyres
I'd say that the blown diffuser is the reason Red Bull can open the wing so early.
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I hope so, need to see Vettel pressured some more! What has been good though is that despite Vettel's "domination" so far, none of the races have been close to boring and this has been the best start to a season that I can remember!
 
Centura
If it's that, then nothing will change in/after Silvestone because they are only limiting off-throttle.
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If I'm understanding what I've been reading about this, and that's not guaranteed, it's the off throttle that allows them to open the wing mid corner.

The Driver gets off the throttle and then the engine disconnects from drive and revs. The gases this produces are blown over the diffuser to increase downforce and that is what allows the driver to open the wing early.
 
daan
Sebastia Vettel? 💡
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No, he means ******** ******. I successfully took out an injunction banning anyone from using the Ferrari driver's name on the basis that he's a prat. The swear filter should automatically hash it out for you, and during the race, the BBC will bleep it out.
 
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No, he means ******** ******. I successfully took out an injunction banning anyone from using the Ferrari driver's name on the basis that he's a prat. The swear filter should automatically hash it out for you, and during the race, the BBC will bleep it out.
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types out Ferrari driver's name

******** ******

Oh, so it does. How did you manage that?

Felipe Massa will win. Hmm, that works. How odd.
 
interludes
No, he means ******** ******. I successfully took out an injunction banning anyone from using the Ferrari driver's name on the basis that he's a prat. The swear filter should automatically hash it out for you, and during the race, the BBC will bleep it out.
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Prat? I heard it was for a different reason.... A number of different reasons that the swear filter and AUP will not allow me to repeat here.
 

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