2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

  • Thread starter LewyOs
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I've a newfound respect for Button as a racingdriver. I always tagged him as a decent driver who just lucked out in the Brawn. No better, or worse really, than Barichello, Massa or Rosberg for that matter. But it is quite clear that aside from his tactical skills which is clearly among the very best in the field right now he is also a very good racer with the ability to setup and execute a good pass without endangering his opponents and also yielding when every other move spells disaster. I have him as probably the only other driver (besides Alonso himself obviously :D )at Spa who could have pulled off the Webber-Alonso pass without it ending in tears both as the passer and the one being passed.
 
I wonder if people obsessed about Schumacher or Senna in their day the way they obsess over Hamilton.
Missed this one...when I got into the sport in 1987, Senna was winning 2 races a year ('85, '86,...), but was also prone to a couple of errors and lacking maturity (for example, punching a track marshal after he spun out of the '87 Mexican Grand Prix). He scored so many poles in an inferior car during his first two years with Lotus, that you had to notice him!

Look who was winning during 1985-1987: Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Berger, Rosberg, and a few wins by Alboreto, one (by disqualification) for Elio de Angelis and one by Lauda at the end of his career. So the press was always talking about those guys. Naturally, everyone wants to be first to crown them eventual world champs: The press basically felt Senna would be an eventual world champion, but to be fair, they were saying that about Mansell (one day, the luck would got his way, right?) and Berger (although that never panned out). The feeling was that Senna would one day do it, and after he won is first, nobody doubted he'd win another. There's always going to be a few doubters, because I'm sure some people were scratching their heads after Senna crashed out of the Monaco GP in 1988. Schumacher was fast in all conditions, and he was really cited as more than just a "flavor-of-the-month". I so think the face of F1 changed so dramatically nearly at once, so he was literally the only mega-professional and competitive driver out there after the tragic 1994 San Marino GP, save Berger and Hill (who was comparatively new to F1).

What you're seeing is a total deluge of information due to the Internet, in all manner of sport! There used to be little to no information during the off-season of most sports, but the fact is, people lap it up, and so if it sells/gets attention/clicks, the media goes with it. It's even more hyperactive now, thanks to online polls, blogging, texting, and Twitter...
 
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1989: Senna does his moves, he's an evil man with a Twinkie-colored helmet. Prost does it, he's a hero for finally putting him in his place.
1999: After Senna dies, his moves are always brilliant, but now Prost is a jerk.

That's not the impression I've had at all. I think you'd struggle to find anyone who'd call Prost "a jerk", even considering his move on Senna. He was very much considered very much a thinking driver - a bit like Button today, I guess - and always very quick and efficient.

As far as outright skill goes, from the races I watched as a child and the races I've seen since on video, I'd rate Prost, Senna and Mansell very closely. Senna probably had the edge on outright speed and that ability - like Schumacher had - to pull off the virtually impossible occasionally. But Prost and Mansell were very, very close, and the three of them provided some of the best racing the sport has ever seen.

Important to note on the "Would we be calling Prost the greatest had he died instead" theme: Aside from it being a bit morbid, you can't really draw a comparison. Prost had retired at the very top of his game. Senna's 94 was off to a very bad start already, and who knows whether it would have improved? Maybe if Senna had survived we would still have seen Schumacher dominate the next few years, and that might have harmed his reputation. As it was, Senna had been at the very top of F1 for several seasons and we can only judge him on his performances - and his performances had been utterly stunning, even in years like 92 when his car was sub-par.

Prost had always been at the top, but not "sparkled" as much as Senna even when both were racing together.

As for Hill in '94 - I think he did amazingly well to carry the team after Senna's death - but let's not forget he was actually brilliant in 93 too. Theoretically he could have won the 93 title - his car broke twice while he was in the lead of races (off the top of my head - Monza and Hungary) (UK and Germany) and was ordered to let Prost pass on another race (France). He was also catching Prost at Spain before his engine blew. Those four sacrificed likely wins would have altered the points enough for him to become champion, if I'm not mistaken (I know, I know - ifs and buts). Of the races he didn't retire, he came 2nd four times, 1st three times and 3rd twice

And by rights he should have won 94 too, but we all know the outcome of that...

That said, Hill was never as naturally talented as Schumacher. Nor Hamilton or Button, I'd say, and I'm saying that as a big fan of Hill both as a driver and as a person.
 
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In terms of Hamilton-Button, Hamilton is the faster one but Button is better currently. His experience ties him over.

When Hamilton is 31 though he will most likely be better than Button is/was at 31.

Thats exactly what people were saying about Villeneuve in 1997 though...and now look at him - he's still as fast as ever but his career is in tatters and he still lacks a balanced racing head on him. Experience hasn't really helped Jacques at all.
Its not the case that experience simply makes a better driver, he has to learn to learn first.
 
Thats exactly what people were saying about Villeneuve in 1997 though...and now look at him - he's still as fast as ever but his career is in tatters and he still lacks a balanced racing head on him. Experience hasn't really helped Jacques at all.
Its not the case that experience simply makes a better driver, he has to learn to learn first.

I agree he also needs to learn that he(Villeneuve) is not the paragon of the racing world, he is a great driver but not the best like he tends to think when racing other series. I just hope Hamilton isn't like that for too long, or he'll lose a fan for sure. I enjoy watching Perez and Senna and I back them too, but I've just been a Hamilton fan since '07, and a fan of Button since '05 so it is hard for me to give them up. However, if Hamilton can't grow as a driver I'd probably move on and support someone else.
 
Thats exactly what people were saying about Villeneuve in 1997 though...and now look at him - he's still as fast as ever but his career is in tatters and he still lacks a balanced racing head on him. Experience hasn't really helped Jacques at all.
Its not the case that experience simply makes a better driver, he has to learn to learn first.

I don't think it's even experience with Villeneuve. As a F1 and IndyCar champ he's obviously quick (though not massively so given how close he came to losing in the best car by miles in 97) and has plenty of experience.

Jacques' problem is that he won't keep his bloody mouth shut. Every time he opens it a torrent of excrement pours out. If he had anything approaching a personality it wouldn't be a problem, but usually he's either moaning about something or mouthing off about something.
 
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