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2012 Australian Grand Prix
- Thread starter Akmuq
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- Kimky
- Kimky
Nope that's wrong sorry. Both will get them, Mclaren is a very big team they wont bring only one wing or one example of that part. Like I said maybe in Practice they wont be using the same car but that's only to test the part, in qualification and in race, both Mclaren drivers have the best car possible. Also the team is behind both drivers and not focus on one like in Ferrari or Red Bull. At least since Button is here it's like that.
Edit : sorry for the double post.
- 3,195
- tribolik
Its all over the internet...
On 30th November, the FIA issued the current entry list for the 2012 Formula One Season. There are no surprises at the top of the field driver wise, as Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes all remain unchanged, but with Button moving to take the number 1 seat at McLaren.
What I find amusing is that Mclaren have always said that both drivers were treated equally but when Hamilton was the number 1 seat at Mclaren nobody contested that. And of course he got the new parts to test in P1 as Button should have now, guess will have to wait and see, I know because I watch all sessions.
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- GTP_Roamer2629
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"McLaren’s ethos has always been, and remains, to treat both its drivers as equal number-ones."
OK, so that's why there were things like the mysterious "pit in, no, drive through, we weren't ready" occasion and the equally mysterious temporary loss of engine power on the main straight of Melbourne back when Häkkinen and Coulthard were driving.
It's hard to say anything certain about Räikkönen and Montoya because Räikkönen's car kept breaking down and Montoya kept being hot headed.
During the days of Hamilton and Alonso even Ron Dennis himself said that the team supported Hamilton over Alonso despite both drivers having a very realistic chance at taking the championship. Well, Alonso isn't the easiest person to work with but I can only wonder what logic puts a rookie higher in the importance scale than a double world champion.
When Alonso was replaced by Kovalainen the latter's car was made laughably heavy in just about every qualification whereas Hamilton drove a light car to the front of the grid and fought for the lead while Kovalainen was stuck in the traffic with his fuel tanker. Officially it was called different tactics but I don't remember the heavy car working for anybody more than once or twice. Interestingly enough the team even managed to fit his car's front tyres the wrong way round at Japan.
The current drivers are the first ones for the last 15 years who have a car that gives them an equal footing and neither of them seems to be favoured. Interestingly enough we now can see that either Button is seriously good (which he is) or Hamilton isn't as miraculous as he was hyped to be (which he isn't) and that this approach gives the best results.
The most ridiculous thing isn't favouring one driver over another, it's fully understandable but trying to hold the "holier than thou" image of not favouring anybody is simply stupd when everyone can see what is happening. Why not just admit it right away when it's done.
OK, so that's why there were things like the mysterious "pit in, no, drive through, we weren't ready" occasion and the equally mysterious temporary loss of engine power on the main straight of Melbourne back when Häkkinen and Coulthard were driving.
It's hard to say anything certain about Räikkönen and Montoya because Räikkönen's car kept breaking down and Montoya kept being hot headed.
During the days of Hamilton and Alonso even Ron Dennis himself said that the team supported Hamilton over Alonso despite both drivers having a very realistic chance at taking the championship. Well, Alonso isn't the easiest person to work with but I can only wonder what logic puts a rookie higher in the importance scale than a double world champion.
When Alonso was replaced by Kovalainen the latter's car was made laughably heavy in just about every qualification whereas Hamilton drove a light car to the front of the grid and fought for the lead while Kovalainen was stuck in the traffic with his fuel tanker. Officially it was called different tactics but I don't remember the heavy car working for anybody more than once or twice. Interestingly enough the team even managed to fit his car's front tyres the wrong way round at Japan.
The current drivers are the first ones for the last 15 years who have a car that gives them an equal footing and neither of them seems to be favoured. Interestingly enough we now can see that either Button is seriously good (which he is) or Hamilton isn't as miraculous as he was hyped to be (which he isn't) and that this approach gives the best results.
The most ridiculous thing isn't favouring one driver over another, it's fully understandable but trying to hold the "holier than thou" image of not favouring anybody is simply stupd when everyone can see what is happening. Why not just admit it right away when it's done.
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Perhaps when Kovalainen was paired with Hamilton they had unequal billing, but they've usually stuck with the equal-driver policy. In 1999, the media jumped all over McLaren for not asking Coulthard to back off for Hakkinen at the Belgian GP.
I do think there's been occasional exceptions, though, but it's not 100% proven. Historically, if one driver has no realistic shot at the championship, there is definitely a focus on creating a de facto number two driver at Ron's Team.
I do think there's been occasional exceptions, though, but it's not 100% proven. Historically, if one driver has no realistic shot at the championship, there is definitely a focus on creating a de facto number two driver at Ron's Team.
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- JoeTruckV8
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- tribolik
Didnt Rosberg finished the championship ahead of Schumacher? but Schumacher is the number 1 driver at mercedes (nº7) and Rosberg the number 2 (nº8) so what do you have to say about that?
That doesnt change the fact that Button is the nº3 driver and Hamilton the nº4... (if it happens wich I doubt and hope not)
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- TopGearFTW
Schumacher has Number 7 by special request to Ross Brawn because he doesn't like driving even-numbered cars. That's why he had the number 3 car in 2010 and the number 7 car last year.
You seem to be reading a lot into the numbers stuck to the front of the car, despite it purely being a representation of how that driver performed the year before. Damon Hill wore the number 0 twice, purely due to his world-champion team-mate retiring after they won the championship (Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) does that mean he was the best driver on the grid?
Jenson Button wore the number 22 on the front of his car when he won the Championship, simply because he was competing for a brand new team, rather than a rebadged one (Force India took Honda's old numbers), does this mean he was the worst driver on the grid?
Sure it's nice to have the number 1 on the front of the car, but for most teams it doesn't actually mean preferential treatment for the driver of that car (Red Bull and Ferrari aside)
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And yet he drove 32 in '91? Though I'm sure he didn't have much choice.
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McLaren are as likely to make use of team orders and favouritism as any other team - it isn't that McLaren wouldn't favour a certain driver with upgrades, strategies and general support...its more that McLaren aren't afraid of hiring drivers of equal footing. Thats where they differ from other top teams who either hire a top driver and a supporting driver or hire a top driver and a pay driver. McLaren seem to have a habit of trying to hire the best two drivers in the business - something Williams tried to do more than once.
There are plenty of examples of McLaren use of team orders and asking drivers to defer to their teammates during races. Coulthard has regularly spoken about this quite openly.
I'd also argue that occasionally McLaren have even actually gone for slightly weaker drivers (Coulthard, Kovalainen, Watson, etc) though they have always appeared to give them a fair shot. The only driver who I felt wasn't given a fair crack and was pretty screwed was Kovalainen who seemed to forever be put on heavy fuel Q3 strategies. The one time they didn't (2008 British GP) Heikki outqualified Hamilton.
Its kind of like Sauber nowadays - the team seemed to find that Kovy could qualify so well that they could fill him up and he would still qualify pretty well. So they proceeded to use this tactic every single race weekend in some weird hope it would strike lucky.
But anyway, I don't seriously think that Hamilton is a literal number 2 driver at McLaren at the moment as its certainly pretty clear McLaren give both drivers equal opportunities. But because of this, its down to Hamilton to actually deliver and make the most of what he has - which he isn't doing as well as Button, or at least not in the first race. So Hamilton became a de facto number 2 in this race due to his ability and circumstance in the race as Button got first dibs on strategy.
If Button continues to lead the WDC by a healthy margin by the end of the year and Hamilton falls behind, then don't be surprised to see McLaren potentially asking Lewis to allow Button past when the time comes. I still find it hard to believe this scenario could happen even now but the point is that McLaren are more than capable of using team orders.
There are plenty of examples of McLaren use of team orders and asking drivers to defer to their teammates during races. Coulthard has regularly spoken about this quite openly.
I'd also argue that occasionally McLaren have even actually gone for slightly weaker drivers (Coulthard, Kovalainen, Watson, etc) though they have always appeared to give them a fair shot. The only driver who I felt wasn't given a fair crack and was pretty screwed was Kovalainen who seemed to forever be put on heavy fuel Q3 strategies. The one time they didn't (2008 British GP) Heikki outqualified Hamilton.
Its kind of like Sauber nowadays - the team seemed to find that Kovy could qualify so well that they could fill him up and he would still qualify pretty well. So they proceeded to use this tactic every single race weekend in some weird hope it would strike lucky.
But anyway, I don't seriously think that Hamilton is a literal number 2 driver at McLaren at the moment as its certainly pretty clear McLaren give both drivers equal opportunities. But because of this, its down to Hamilton to actually deliver and make the most of what he has - which he isn't doing as well as Button, or at least not in the first race. So Hamilton became a de facto number 2 in this race due to his ability and circumstance in the race as Button got first dibs on strategy.
If Button continues to lead the WDC by a healthy margin by the end of the year and Hamilton falls behind, then don't be surprised to see McLaren potentially asking Lewis to allow Button past when the time comes. I still find it hard to believe this scenario could happen even now but the point is that McLaren are more than capable of using team orders.
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To be honest, I think most peoples' opinion of Button went through-the-roof in 2009 when we saw what he could do with a decent car. The people saying he would never win a race or anything were proved badly wrong that season.
I had always liked Button, simply because he was another UK driver on the grid, but he's really come into his own these past three seasons, it's brilliant to see. This is coming from a huge fan of Hamilton: I reckon in terms of one-lap pace, Hamilton probably has the edge, but over an entire race Button is far more consistent (just look at Canada last year, went from the back of the field to take the win in what, 15 laps or something?)
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- F1fan1
The front wing was decided by the team. Vettel's wing failed so the team decided to give him the front wing as he was leading(Webber)in the championship. And unless it was just posturing, Mark already said that he didn't like the front wing. As for the "maintain the gap". He wouldn't have won the race anyway.
Anyway, if you look back at their record together, you can see that Vettel has bested Mark in every department since they became teammates. So why shouldn't they favour Vettel?
Were you even watching last year? And Button was pretty close to Hamilton in 2010 too.
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- F1fan1
He was flat out through that section like everybody else.
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- JoeTruckV8
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have the speed stream up on one screen and live timing on the other. Wish tey could speed up all the installation laps and get down to business. I want to see what Raikkonen can do! He has so much talent to only have 1 F1 title. Should have 3 from the early Mclaren Mercedes days but that damn Mclaren was so unreliable...Or he was a car breaker depeding on who you believe
Iceman on top early in the session !
Who would win a hypothetical wet race in same cars, same tires in Malaysia.
Vettel vs Hamilton vs Alonso...
Iceman on top early in the session !
Who would win a hypothetical wet race in same cars, same tires in Malaysia.
Vettel vs Hamilton vs Alonso...
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