2012 Formula 1 Monaco Grand Prix

[hornet_burnout]

From twitter:

Rob Cregan ‏@robcregan (GP3 driver about the black and orange flag)
"it was out for more than 3 laps, I was behind and saw it every lap in 2 places. Somebody could have been seriously hurt"

Will Buxton ‏@willbuxton (SPEED Channel F1 Pit Reporter)
"We may not see Suranovich for a while. I have it on impeccable authority that post race he flipped off the chief steward. No 🤬."

I'm gonna side with Ardius and say it's cause he's and idiot.



(edit: actually, he's 16... not using it as an excuse but to add context)

 

[Ardius]

The team obviously would have informed him of it. And they probably would have told him to bring the car back to the pits so as to avoid a safety car (or something similar). In that respect, Suranovich probably intended to observe the flags ... but for some reason, he seemed to think he could do that at race speed.

Aren't you supposed to learn this stuff in Formula Ford?

You're supposed to learn it when you get your first race license. As I said, basics of racing is understand what flags mean! If you don't understand the flag system, you shouldn't be on the race track full stop. The flags are there for the safety of everyone - competitors, marshalls, spectators, etc. This particular flag is to prevent the very accident which occured - a very slow damaged car getting in the way of much faster cars. Luckily for everyone involved the catch fencing did its job and the car didn't do a (full) flip. But if this had happened somewhere else on the track, the results might not have been so fortunate.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think the incident with Suranovich really highlights some of the double standards among Formula 1 fans. When Maldonado hit Perez in practice, a lot of people demanded that he be banned from racing. But I'm yet to see a chorus calling for Suranovich's head ...

 

[Ardius]

Seems pretty much the other way around in this forum...are you by any chance basing this on the autosport forum? A forum reknowned for its un-biased, friendly and balanced user opinions?

F1 has more fans, people don't care about GP3. Simple as that. Peope have always got more emotional over F1 than anything else - precisely because there are more people who follow it. There are also more Perez supporters than Daly supporters - again because its only GP3.

 

[Alex p.]

I think the incident with Suranovich really highlights some of the double standards among Formula 1 fans. When Maldonado hit Perez in practice, a lot of people demanded that he be banned from racing. But I'm yet to see a chorus calling for Suranovich's head ...

True. I call it bias and hypocrisy. Everyone is to blame in that regard, one less, one more.

 

[Ardius]

How can you be hypocritical about something you haven't even commented on? Just because people haven't mentioned GP3 but go OTT about Maldonaldo doesn't mean it is hypocrisy. Its a simple matter of interest.
May as well be saying that F1 fans are hypocritical because they haven't mentioned Kurt Busch.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Seems pretty much the other way around in this forum...are you by any chance basing this on the autosport forum? A forum reknowned for its un-biased, friendly and balanced user opinions?

Several forums, actually. I don't post at Autosport anymore, though I did go in and observe after these incidents.

What really surprised me were the reactions at F1 Fanatic.

 

[Ardius]

I don't really see the problem though. Why should F1 fans comment on GP3? Not everyone watches GP3.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The only problem with the "Maldonado did it deliberately" theory is that Maldonado had no reason to do it deliberately.

Did you watch Maldonado's whole onboard to make sure there weren't any incidents with Perez or hold-ups? I was going by Coulthard's comments that Maldonado was obviously held up. Pastor appears to steer into him while he's still side by side, obviously too early. The stewards have better data on that. It fits his modus operandi after being ticked off.

I think the incident with Suranovich really highlights some of the double standards among Formula 1 fans. When Maldonado hit Perez in practice, a lot of people demanded that he be banned from racing. But I'm yet to see a chorus calling for Suranovich's head ...

There is no double standard since most F1 fans don't care about GP3. Though obviously he behaved like an idiot and his actions were way more dangerous than Pastor's two swipes. But Pastor is a bit older and should be more mature.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It fits his modus operandi after being ticked off.

No, his m.o. is to hit someone after they cost him something. He hit Hamilton because Hamilton cost him a quick lap time and a few qualifying positions. Perez didn't cost him anything.

There is no proof that Maldonado hit Perez on purpose.

There is no double standard since most F1 fans don't care about GP3.

We're discussing it in at least two threads, aren't we?

But Pastor is a bit older and should be more mature.

Which is probably why he got a ten-place penalty and not five places. The punishment is already severe. Banning him from racing is just unnecessary.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Hey, I call them all on their wrong doings if I see them. Penalties are a different thing. Being reckless on track is one thing, deliberately wrecking (or swiping) another driver is another. I thought Carl Edwards should've been banned for a couple races last year (deliberately coming put of the pits to wreck Kezelowski), or Bush, or Maldonado on the Hamilton incident.

Today however (from what I saw) I don't think he deserved it. But I reserve the benefit of the doubt to the Marshals that must've seen much more...

 

[Ardius]

We're discussing it in at least two threads, aren't we?

The F1 fans you were referring to are not in this forum and don't care about GP3. Those that do or those that take interest in most motorsports or simply wish to comment, have commented and had the same reaction.
Why does it matter that some Perez fan who never watches GP3 has not mentioned GP3 when ranting about Maldonaldo? How is this double standards for F1 fans?

Welcome to the world, not everyone cares about everything. This is not double standards. One cannot know everything and comment on everything. I don't see why someone who's had an emotional reaction over one event they care about should then have the same reaction to an event they know nothing about.

 

[ZEROX]

I don't think Mcdonald do it on purpose. Spa last year is a different story.
Doing that intentional would cause him to lose rear wheel rather than do a significant damage to the opponent car.

I'm sure he's not monkey enough to do it deliberately.
The data may show he didn't back off because obviously, he was on hot lap and i think that as a racing incident.

Turn in to early and bam.
Innocent or not, it's the past and Mcdonald got penalty to deal with. Story end.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

No, his m.o. is to hit someone after they cost him something. He hit Hamilton because Hamilton cost him a quick lap time and a few qualifying positions. Perez didn't cost him anything.

There is no proof that Maldonado hit Perez on purpose.

Well it's hard to know what goes to Pastor's head. Maybe the 3rd time will seal the deal.

 

[Seismica]

What I think happened, and I may be wrong but it's just an opinion.

Perez pulled aside for Maldonado. When Maldonado went to go round him Perez was closer to the apex then he thought and the rear wheel caught Perez's front left.

He in my opinion thought Perez was further back and went to take the racing line. No intention.

Do you mean Maldonado thought Perez was closer to the apex than he was? Perez got well out of the way, he was nowhere near either apex. You rarely see drivers make a mistake there unless it's wet or they have a problem. If he lost the back end, you would've seen the car rotate about it's front wheels, you wouldn't have seen him turning gradually towards the inside. The turn in point is fairly clear there, and Maldonado turned in a good 2-3 car lengths early, right into Perez.

I'm sure the Stewards have Maldonado's onboard footage to make their decision, so I have no doubt that their decision is right and that it was infact intentional.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Doing it intentionaly he would have to be pretty sure he'd hit the wheel and not the front wing and get a flat rear. It was bad judgment IMO

 

[tribolik]

I didnt watch P3 but in Q1 they mencioned that he was held up by Perez and took is revenge... he probably didnt mean to hit the car but only to scare Perez and missjudged it, either way if that was the case he really should stop with that attitude.

 

[Seismica]

I want footage of Lowes hairpin beforehand. As Ardius mentioned, if Maldonado did it intentionally he needed a motive; something to spark his anger otherwise he wouldn't have done it.

I feel it was intentional but I want to see where/if Perez held him up.

 

[hornet_burnout]

I didnt watch P3 but in Q1 they mencioned that he was held up by Perez and took is revenge... he probably didnt mean to hit the car but only to scare Perez either way if that was the case he really should stop with that attitude.

That I could believe... Turn in early to force Perez to brake and show him he wasn't happy, be he didn't and they touched. Could be it.

 

[tribolik]

I want footage of Lowes hairpin beforehand. As Ardius mentioned, if Maldonado did it intentionally he needed a motive; something to spark his anger otherwise he wouldn't have done it.

I feel it was intentional but I want to see where/if Perez held him up.

Even if he had been held up... it was a practice session... so IMO there is no justifiable motive to pull a stunt like that... unless you are a bully

 

[Akmuq]

Weather it was intentional or not I'd be fairly sure that caused the damage to Perez's front left which caused him to lose steering in that wheel mid-corner at the swimming pool.

And I don't think it was intentional, just Maldonado being off-form today as he hit the wall at Casino and was poor in Q3.

 

[Matty]

Do you mean Maldonado thought Perez was closer to the apex than he was? Perez got well out of the way, he was nowhere near either apex. You rarely see drivers make a mistake there unless it's wet or they have a problem. If he lost the back end, you would've seen the car rotate about it's front wheels, you wouldn't have seen him turning gradually towards the inside. The turn in point is fairly clear there, and Maldonado turned in a good 2-3 car lengths early, right into Perez.

I'm sure the Stewards have Maldonado's onboard footage to make their decision, so I have no doubt that their decision is right and that it was infact intentional.

Since I said that I seen the replay and yes he did turn in early leading me to think it was somewhat intentional. But why is what really confuses me..

 

[Seismica]

Since I said that I seen the replay and yes he did turn in early leading me to think it was somewhat intentional. But why is what really confuses me..

He needed a motive, for sure (I mean, he's not a psycho contrary to what his eyebrow makes us believe). If Perez never held him up at all, i'd be more inclined to think it wasn't intentional. But then i'd need to see Maldonado's onboard aswell to be sure, i've never seen a driver got that far offline in such a controlled manner. Usually if a driver gives a bit too much throttle it should only take a quick lift and correct of the wheel, and this should be evident from his onboard.

 

[Matty]

Actually, I may be very wrong by saying this and I might be mixing this up with something else, but didn't Perez hold him up on the right after Lowes?

I could be wrong so I'd just like to point that out.

Will try a quick search on YT.

 

[Seismica]

Actually, I may be very wrong by saying this and I might be mixing this up with something else, but didn't Perez hold him up on the right after Lowes?

I could be wrong so I'd just like to point that out.

Will try a quick search on YT.

He got out of his way just after that turn. It's likely that if Maldonado was held up, that it was one of the hairpins preceding where the incident took place.

 

[Peter.]

I see people still love to antagonize Maldonado whenever he is involved in an incident.

As pm and Ardius have said, Maldonado would only ever want to show his anger with force if he had lost something of value, and considering that it was a practice session, he didn't lose anything that would harm his race weekend significantly.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I don't think it matters if he lost something of value. We don't know what makes Pastor tick. If he was thinking clearly enough for that, he would think about the possible penalties.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't think it matters if he lost something of value. We don't know what makes Pastor tick.

Like I said earlier, behavior is learned - antecedent-behvaior-consequence. Based on his behavior at Spa, Maldoando attacks when he feels someone has taken something from him. This is not something I have just made up; it's scientific theory. We can only observe based on what we have seen, both in the past and in the present. The idea that Maldonado attacks when provoked is based on his past behavior. You can't just dismiss it because you "don't know" if it's true, and then replace it with an alternate theory - that Maldonado attacked without a reason - with no historical grounding.

 

[Prince.M5]

I don't think Mcdonald do it on purpose. Spa last year is a different story.
Doing that intentional would cause him to lose rear wheel rather than do a significant damage to the opponent car.

Turn in to early and bam.
Innocent or not, it's the past and Mcdonald got penalty to deal with. Story end.

I don't know if it was intentional or not but I don't see the reason why he turned in early as if he's taking back the racing line?

The racing line is on the other side and not on the way of Perez?

He made it look like as if he's turning into a corner which in that case, he will turn towards an armco barrier?

According to his interview, he said the tyres were too cold and he underestimated them?

Complete BS I have to say. He has a good performance, but reckless...

I just saw the Suranovich and Daly incident, it's not denying that Suranovich was stupid for what he done. Frustration is frustration, rules is still rules to follow. He deserved the ban and yeah, until he's decided to changed, I hope to not see him again in a race car anymore.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't know if it was intentional or not but I don't see the reason why he turned in early as if he's taking back the racing line?

The entrance to Portier is already blind enough as is. You have to turn in a little bit before you actually see the apex. The position of Perez's car at the time would further obscure the turn-in point.

I just saw the Suranovich and Daly incident, it's not denying that Suranovich was stupid for what he done. Frustration is frustration, rules is still rules to follow. He deserved the ban and yeah, until he's decided to changed, I hope to not see him again in a race car anymore.

As far as I can tell, Suranovich hasn't been banned. People in the OMG/WTF moments thread were claiming he has been given a ten-race ban, but as far as I can tell, he was just excluded from the race results.