2012 Singapore F1 Grand Prix

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If Turn 10 is there to stop cars going side by side on the Anderson Bridge, it isn't working, turn it into a regular corner so we can get some overtaking there.đź‘Ť

Loved the race today Maldonado-Alonso and Massa-Senna were brilliant, I do love the racing you get in Singapore, really tough to pass, but possible, and there can be great side-by-side stuff with all the 90 degree turns.
 
Akmuq
If Turn 10 is there to stop cars going side by side on the Anderson Bridge, it isn't working, turn it into a regular corner so we can get some overtaking there.đź‘Ť

Loved the race today Maldonado-Alonso and Massa-Senna were brilliant, I do love the racing you get in Singapore, really tough to pass, but possible, and there can be great side-by-side stuff with all the 90 degree turns.
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The commentator in ESPN said something about it being placed there to slow down cars, as there isn't runoff area when something goes wrong.
 
From the Race Director's cut, it appeared that Webber was up by Kobayashi's sidepod when he was forced wide... which would make the pass safe, but the stewards have more video feeds than we do, and I can't find an onboard feed of Webber on Kobayashi.

So I... guess... they're right?
 
m8h3r
I thought it was in Fuji? I thought Suzuka and Fuji alternated?
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Fuji Hasn't hosted the Japanese gp since 2008.
 
F1 fan
Fuji Hasn't hosted the Japanese gp since 2008.
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Shame, I like the Fuji GP track.

That long pit straight will make DRS fun.
 
F1 fan
Agreed. It's a decent enough track, but it's no Suzuka.
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Suzuka>Fuji anyday but it still was an good track. I didn't watch Japanese in 2010 and didn't know it'd been dropped.
 
Out of our sight, Marussia is now in 10th place in the constructors standing taking over the Caterham.
 
Hamilton had Vettel on pace. He was just covering him, and when Vettel started to catch him, Hamilton reopened the gap. Too bad his gearbox gave out on him. He would have won IMO. On to Suzuka, probably the best track of the year.
 
Prince.M5
Out of our sight, Marussia is now in 10th place in the constructors standing taking over the Caterham.
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I wouldn't say it was "out of sight", even though we never actually saw it - Brundle and Croft actually covered it quite a bit right at the end; I got the sense that Brundle was more interested in seeing whether Glock could hold onto twelfth place, rather than seeing if Button could catch Vettel.

The real question now is whether Marussia can hold onto the place; Caterham need an eleventh or two twelfths from six races to re-take the position.
 
F1 fan
Agreed. It's a decent enough track, but it's no Suzuka.
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In my opinion it's the best track they go to. The first sector esses, the long spoon corner and the final chicane with the downhill run to the line are brilliant sections. The Mclaren looked the best at Singapore and that's without been given the chance to show how much better it is than the Red Bull on the straights so Suzuka looks like another Mclaren track.
 
prisonermonkeys
I wouldn't say it was "out of sight", even though we never actually saw it - Brundle and Croft actually covered it quite a bit right at the end; I got the sense that Brundle was more interested in seeing whether Glock could hold onto twelfth place, rather than seeing if Button could catch Vettel.

The real question now is whether Marussia can hold onto the place; Caterham need an eleventh or two twelfths from six races to re-take the position.
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Brazil is a long strenuous race. Could present a problem for a few alternators. Few front runners drop out. Good race and that could present a good position.
 
Peasantslayer
Suzuka looks like another Mclaren track.
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It's funny you should say that; Red Bull has typically been very strong at Suzuka. I suspect Adrian Newey marks the date on his calendar and then reverse-engineers the car from there so that they can be as competitive as possible at the point where the championship battle (if there is one) is in full swing.
 
Prince.M5
Out of our sight, Marussia is now in 10th place in the constructors standing taking over the Caterham.
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Which is a ridiculous situation.

Caterham:
27 starts
24 finishes (88.9%)
Average finish position (finishes only): 16.7
Average finish position (inc. retirements): 16.9

Marussia:
27 starts
23 finishes (85.2%)
Average finish position (finishes only): 17.5
Average finish position (inc. retirements): 18.0

HRT:
26 starts
19 finishes (73.1%)
Average finish position (finishes only): 19.7
Average finish position (inc. retirements): 20.4


To say Marussia are a better team because on one occasion, in a race dominated by crashes, safety cars, punctures and gearbox failures, they got a car home for a fluke, non-points-scoring twelfth place is ludicrous.

See hither.
 
Was just thinking about this, wouldn't it be better if they could reprofile the turns 16 and 17 (before the grandstand) to be a more gradual, higher speed chicane instead of the current slow and tight 90 degree style it has now?

It'd make the run up to turn 18 a whole lot more interesting IMO, and with that modification there'd be slightly less 90 degree corners which this circuit seems to be infested with.

Check out 1:47 to see what I mean.

 
prisonermonkeys
It's funny you should say that; Red Bull has typically been very strong at Suzuka. I suspect Adrian Newey marks the date on his calendar and then reverse-engineers the car from there so that they can be as competitive as possible at the point where the championship battle (if there is one) is in full swing.
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They have been strong here in the past but I don't think that Red Bull have the downforce advantage of last year, actually Button won last year IIRC and Hamilton probably would have been on pole if he didn't have one of his stupid 2011 moments.
 
Button might have won at Suzuka last year, but I don't think Vettel was trying too hard. All he had to do was finish in the points, and the championship was his.
 
Famine
Which is a ridiculous situation.
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In my mind, all three of those teams are tied for unplaced in the Constructor's Championship because they each have exactly zero points. Come on, they give points down to tenth place nowadays. This sounds like those Minardi apologists who claim "we were never last in the Constructor's because there was always some team more ill-prepared than we were".

If the ridiculously hapless Arrows team could cobble together a couple of points in 2002 (yes, top-six only back then) and not even finish the season, there's really something wrong with these backmarkers by comparison.

I know, apples to hex nuts comparison, but still...
 
The mid-field is now too good for the backmarkers to make surprise finishes. Hell, the mid-field now has the ability to knock Number Twos from the front-runners out of Q3 and out of the points.

Add to that the reliability, and the huge field, and it's entirely reasonable that a competent back-marker team has less chance than a snowball in hell of scoring points.
 
prisonermonkeys
Button might have won at Suzuka last year, but I don't think Vettel was trying too hard. All he had to do was finish in the points, and the championship was his.
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Good point but I don't remember him going so easy on Button into turn 1. :lol:
 
I think it should be based on average finishing position for people with 0, not a one off fluke place.
 
Pupik
In my mind, all three of those teams are tied for unplaced in the Constructor's Championship because they each have exactly zero points. Come on, they give points down to tenth place nowadays. This sounds like those Minardi apologists who claim "we were never last in the Constructor's because there was always some team more ill-prepared than we were".

If the ridiculously hapless Arrows team could cobble together a couple of points in 2002 (yes, top-six only back then) and not even finish the season, there's really something wrong with these backmarkers by comparison.

I know, apples to hex nuts comparison, but still...
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They couldn't finish the season, doesn't mean they had a bad car.
 
The 'back of the pack' teams are slowly improving, especially if you look at there lap times compared to what they had before. Also remember back to the time when Sahara Force India was a backmarker scoring 0 points every year then suddenly they jumped up the ranks and points finishes are common. Caterham and Marussia have made significant improvements since they arrived in Formula 1. Maybe, just maybe they will be like Force India in a few years time.

They just don't have the money or experience to make massive aero packages mid way through the season.
 
Caterham and Marrusia can't get points due to a couple of things.

Reliability is so strong these days. DRS makes for less trains behind the slower cars. And the mid-field is so strong, Williams, Force India and Sauber have all had top 5 positions even with the above reasons.
 
SKIDMARX
Also remember back to the time when Sahara Force India was a backmarker scoring 0 points every year then suddenly they jumped up the ranks and points finishes are common.
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Every year? More like one year. In their second year, they had that special day in Belgium and a special, but not quite as special day in Italy to rack up 13 points. That was old money too. That's worth 30 with the new point system.

I'm aware that the team had a few rough seasons pre 2008 in their later day Jordan, Midland and Spyker guises, but my point still stands.
 
Pupik
In my mind, all three of those teams are tied for unplaced in the Constructor's Championship because they each have exactly zero points. Come on, they give points down to tenth place nowadays. This sounds like those Minardi apologists who claim "we were never last in the Constructor's because there was always some team more ill-prepared than we were".

If the ridiculously hapless Arrows team could cobble together a couple of points in 2002 (yes, top-six only back then) and not even finish the season, there's really something wrong with these backmarkers by comparison.

I know, apples to hex nuts comparison, but still...
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Points might go down to 10th, but there are barely any retirements these days.

In 2002, do you know what the lowest classified finishing position was? 16th.
Whats the lowest classified finishing position this year? 24th.

In the races that Arrows scored in, 9 cars finished the 2002 Spanish GP and 12 finished the Monaco GP. Kind of makes it a hell of a lot easier to score points when half the field is regularly retiring each race!

Not to mention Arrows had a very good car that year. The base design was so good, it managed to qualify in 2006 with minimal modifications as a Super Aguri!

Thats all you need to know with how far out that comparison is.

I mean people keep comparing these teams with Minardi, Arrows, etc...but all of those teams were established for several years in seasons where retirements were very frequent and widespread..and the regulations were more open to clever ideas that could push a team forward even with uncompetitive engines.
Caterham, Marussia and HRT have only existed 3 years now. 2 of them have struggled quite a bit with small budgets and we are in an era of F1 where teams are fussing over tiny little wing details to gain tenths of a second!
 
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Ardius
Points might go down to 10th, but there are barely any retirements these days.

In 2002, do you know what the lowest classified finishing position was? 16th.
Whats the lowest classified finishing position this year? 24th.

In the races that Arrows scored in, 9 cars finished the 2002 Spanish GP and 12 finished the Monaco GP. Kind of makes it a hell of a lot easier to score points when half the field is regularly retiring each race!

Not to mention Arrows had a very good car that year. The base design was so good, it managed to qualify in 2006 with minimal modifications as a Super Aguri!

Thats all you need to know with how far out that comparison is.

I mean people keep comparing these teams with Minardi, Arrows, etc...but all of those teams were established for several years in seasons where retirements were very frequent and widespread..and the regulations were more open to clever ideas that could push a team forward even with uncompetitive engines.
Caterham, Marussia and HRT have only existed 3 years now. 2 of them have struggled quite a bit with small budgets and we are in an era of F1 where teams are fussing over tiny little wing details to gain tenths of a second!
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Yeah, I've seen a couple of times the 1990 and 1996 Monaco Grand Prix, 1993 South African Grand Prix, where almost every driver retired from the race, we can take all those as an example about how difficult those races were then
 
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