2013 Formula 1 Singtel Singapore Grand Prix

[SVT Cobra GT]

No one would consider booing Alonso or Raikkonen for their exceptional performances, and I don't see why Vettel should be any different. Enjoy the pleasure of watching one of the finest drivers in the world in one of the finest cars in the world.

I agree with that. But if Alonso or Raikkonen or even anybody else on the grid were winning in the same vein as Vettel. (30 second gap and 8 or 9 races a year for 3 consecutive years) I'm sure fans would boo them too.
Before Multi-21 I liked Vettel. Off the track he was a sound lad. Seemed like the kind of guy you could go out for a drink with and talk and joke about anything. But I lost respect for him after that. I did cheer when he retired at Silverstone but after that I haven't booed although it is tiring seeing him win all the time.

 

[JGreens]

Newey is just too brilliant. He's always one step ahead of the rest in development. Not always exciting to watch, but I have to admire his ability.

I unfortunately, agree, Newey is just too good. People forget the likes of FW14, FW16 and what should of been Kimi's first title car, the MP4-20.

No one would consider booing Alonso or Raikkonen for their exceptional performances, and I don't see why Vettel should be any different. Enjoy the pleasure of watching one of the finest drivers in the world in one of the finest cars in the world.

It could just be that Blondie drives the RB9 instead of the E21 or F138.

 

[daan]

I unfortunately, agree, Newey is just too good.

Which is why one of his cars ended the race on fire. 👍

 

[Jimlaad43]

Which is why one of his cars ended the race on fire. 👍

That was Renault's engine reaching the end of its life, not Newey's design.

 

[daan]

That was Renault's engine reaching the end of its life, not Newey's design.

Yeah, but like JG, I'm not letting facts get in the way of a post.

 

[JGreens]

Which is why one of his cars ended the race on fire. 👍

Yeah, but it was the wrong one! D'oh! 👎

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cykz8Pg0Ds

Go on stewards, retrospective lifetime bans, blah, blah, blah. Killjoys.

 

[Seismica]

I think we have to say goodbye to the championship fight this year. The combination of Vettel and the best car is just too good to beat. This race was absolutely shocking, nobody else even had a chance. After the start and after the safety car he was 4-6 seconds clear after just 3 laps, and we all know how fast that Mercedes is that is struggling to keep up.

At least in 2011 we had Button closing in on him every race to make things exciting. Here Vettel was just increasing his lead lap after lap. The dominance he had in the race wasn't evident in qualifying either.

He 100% deserves this championship as he has been fantastic this year, but nobody can say that he doesn't deserve the boos. A good number of fans are rightly unhappy that he has dominated the sport four seasons in a row. It was nice in 2010 as he was a relative underdog who struggled for reliability all season. In 2011 he was always fighting Button on track even if the championship was always a foregone conclusion. In 2012 he didn't have the fastest car so it was nice to see him shine against Hamilton in a marginally slower car (The race at COTA being the highlight for me, though he didn't win he put up a damn good fight). These past couple of races though have been shocking, nobody can get close and that makes it very boring to watch, I daresay even for some Vettel fans.

 

[Samus]

When I first heard of the penalty/reprimand given to Webber/Alonso, I was annoyed, but having now seen the footage it seems that they weren't penalised for getting/giving the lift as such, but the location that they did the pick-up, which is fine by me.

Indeed, it was very unsafe. Not sure why Alonso stopped right at that point.

Perfectly clear reasoning for the penalty in this article btw - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110103?source=mostpopular

 

[Imari]

He 100% deserves this championship as he has been fantastic this year, but nobody can say that he doesn't deserve the boos.

He's a sportsman, competitive by nature and on top of that paid to do the best he can each weekend. What's he supposed to do, throw a race or two to make it more entertaining?

To put it in a blunt and overly aggressive but entertaining way; it's not his fault that everyone else sucks.

Does Usain Bolt slow down and let other people win sometimes? Hell, no.

It would be worthy of booing if Vettel slowed down to let the races be closer. Who wants to see a race where everyone isn't trying their hardest? That's just entertainment, not sports.

Sports is a competition. And sometimes one person (or person and car in this case) is just that much better than everyone else.

I figure it's mostly just tall poppy syndrome. You're allowed to be good, but you're not allowed to be too good.


I don't think anyone deserves to get booed for turning up to work and doing their job well. Particularly when them doing their job well is largely every other team doing their job not as well. There are drivers that can match Vettel. There are cars on the grid that are at times faster than the RB9.

Blame the other teams for the boring races. RB and Vettel are just doing what they're supposed to do, try as hard as they can to win. Boo Renault for blowing up Grosjean's engine. Boo Kimi for qualifying halfway down the field, injured back or no. Boo Ferrari for building a crap car that Alonso has to drive the wheels off to even get within 30 seconds of Vettel. Boo Mercedes for building a car that's only fast for a lap and a half at a time. Boo McLaren for building a midfield car. Boo Sauber and Williams for going from building cars that can take the odd win, to cars that can take the odd point.

Bar Red Bull and possibly Mercedes and Lotus, most of the teams seem to have cars this year that are not as promising as last year. And Merc and Lotus seem unable to turn it on consistently, particularly Merc and their tyre troubles.

Do you really expect RB not to dominate in that environment?

 

[Dragonwhisky]

RBR = Supernatural Car + Extraterrestrial Driver = 4 Straight, World Championship Titles.

This was an exciting race. I was actually clapping when Kimi got by Button and took off. What a beastly drive for him today. Since I'm not a Ferrari fan, I'm a little disappointed he's moving there. Now I'll be rooting for Ferrari by proxy.

Alonzo's start and his driving, combined with the strategy pulled him an excellent finish.

Webber's woes continue, but any race, where one driver gives another a ride to the pit, has to be considered an outstanding event.

I think we have to say goodbye to the championship fight this year. The combination of Vettel and the best car is just too good to beat. This race was absolutely shocking, nobody else even had a chance. After the start and after the safety car he was 4-6 seconds clear after just 3 laps, and we all know how fast that Mercedes is that is struggling to keep up.

At least in 2011 we had Button closing in on him every race to make things exciting. Here Vettel was just increasing his lead lap after lap. The dominance he had in the race wasn't evident in qualifying either.

He 100% deserves this championship as he has been fantastic this year, but nobody can say that he doesn't deserve the boos. A good number of fans are rightly unhappy that he has dominated the sport four seasons in a row. It was nice in 2010 as he was a relative underdog who struggled for reliability all season. In 2011 he was always fighting Button on track even if the championship was always a foregone conclusion. In 2012 he didn't have the fastest car so it was nice to see him shine against Hamilton in a marginally slower car (The race at COTA being the highlight for me, though he didn't win he put up a damn good fight). These past couple of races though have been shocking, nobody can get close and that makes it very boring to watch, I daresay even for some Vettel fans.

While I am not a Vettel fanatic, on either side, Kimi is my current favorite driver, I'm still going to enjoy watching that kid, break, every, single, Formula One record, that most F1 fans hold sacred.

 

[Seismica]

He's a sportsman, competitive by nature and on top of that paid to do the best he can each weekend. What's he supposed to do, throw a race or two to make it more entertaining?

To put it in a blunt and overly aggressive but entertaining way; it's not his fault that everyone else sucks.

Does Usain Bolt slow down and let other people win sometimes? Hell, no.

It would be worthy of booing if Vettel slowed down to let the races be closer. Who wants to see a race where everyone isn't trying their hardest? That's just entertainment, not sports.

Sports is a competition. And sometimes one person (or person and car in this case) is just that much better than everyone else.

I figure it's mostly just tall poppy syndrome. You're allowed to be good, but you're not allowed to be too good.


I don't think anyone deserves to get booed for turning up to work and doing their job well. Particularly when them doing their job well is largely every other team doing their job not as well. There are drivers that can match Vettel. There are cars on the grid that are at times faster than the RB9.

Blame the other teams for the boring races. RB and Vettel are just doing what they're supposed to do, try as hard as they can to win. Boo Renault for blowing up Grosjean's engine. Boo Kimi for qualifying halfway down the field, injured back or no. Boo Ferrari for building a crap car that Alonso has to drive the wheels off to even get within 30 seconds of Vettel. Boo Mercedes for building a car that's only fast for a lap and a half at a time. Boo McLaren for building a midfield car. Boo Sauber and Williams for going from building cars that can take the odd win, to cars that can take the odd point.

Bar Red Bull and possibly Mercedes and Lotus, most of the teams seem to have cars this year that are not as promising as last year. And Merc and Lotus seem unable to turn it on consistently, particularly Merc and their tyre troubles.

Do you really expect RB not to dominate in that environment?

I take in everything you say. I appreciate that Vettel is only doing his job, that he is very good at it and he shouldn't be criticised for that. I'm just saying that in sporting success, it has to be accepted that some people will dislike the fact you are winning. It was the same with Schumacher; people who were indifferent towards him grew to hate his dominance of the sport. At this point, i'm just hoping somebody but Vettel wins a race or even the championship.

At the end of the day I like to see competition. When we see such a dominant display like this people will want to boo. I'm just saying that he should take those boos in his stride, that people shouldn't make a big deal out of it.

 

[The Outlaw]

Personally I wouldn't be one to boo for a driver in such a case, but on the other hand I wouldn't take the booing all that seriously (since it's just the fans showing displeasure for not seeing the driver they want win), as it's so common place in sports.

Gotta like Vettel's hardened attitude torward the shenanigans as well 👍

@ 1:30

 

[PeterJB]

Here's another interesting statistic: Alonso is 8 points above where he was at this stage last year, Vettel is 107, which is still 37 points below his score at this stage 2 years ago.

 

[MrWednesday]

Here Vettel was just increasing his lead lap after lap. The dominance he had in the race wasn't evident in qualifying either.

It looked pretty evident to me. He ran one hot lap in Q3 and parked it and still took the pole, albeit with a little drama at the end. Nobody was even close to his practice or earlier qualifying times.

 

[daan]

It looked pretty evident to me. He ran one hot lap in Q3 and parked it and still took the pole, albeit with a little drama at the end. Nobody was even close to his practice or earlier qualifying times.

He reminded me of Prost at (I think) the 1988 Portuguese GP. In those days it was 2, hour long, sessions and you could do as many laps as you liked.

Prost got provisional pole part way through the 2nd session, then promptly got out the car and changed into his civvies, which gave Senna the message of "beat that!" And Senna, nor anyone else, even got close.

 

[Seismica]

It looked pretty evident to me. He ran one hot lap in Q3 and parked it and still took the pole, albeit with a little drama at the end. Nobody was even close to his practice or earlier qualifying times.

We've seen less dominant race performances from Vettel when he has qualified half a second clear. My point was that it was close in qualifying with less than a tenth advantage (Mercedes appeared to have been sandbagging in practice), but the race pace didn't reflect this.

 

[dsgerbc]

While I am not a Vettel fanatic, on either side, Kimi is my current favorite driver, I'm still going to enjoy watching that kid, break, every, single, Formula One record, that most F1 fans hold sacred.

Bernie isn't stupid, if it continues like this F1 will lose revenues.

Personally, I'm surprised Vettel let RBR choose him a teammate outside Tier1 driver list. When you're that successful, all you want is for people to respect you. And the only way Vettel earns the respect of people who think that his contribution pales compared to the car's ability is by outscoring a top-tier driver in a car that is as equal as possible.

 

[Seismica]

Bernie isn't stupid, if it continues like this F1 will lose revenues.

Well, regulation changes are their go-to method of mixing up the pack. There is a big one coming next year so Red Bull might be knocked off their top spot (Or it could push them further ahead, you never know).

I also think that Bernie has little control over the competitiveness of the sport, the regulation changes are spear headed by the FIA.

Personally, I'm surprised Vettel let RBR choose him a teammate outside Tier1 driver list. When you're that successful, all you want is for people to respect you. And the only way Vettel earns the respect of people who think that his contribution pales compared to the car's ability is by outscoring a top-tier driver in a car that is as equal as possible.

I think it's past this point. You need more than the fastest car to win consistently, you also need the ability. I think 2012 showed quite clearly that Vettel is a driver to be respected (And feared by other drivers). Even if Vettel doesn't have the best car underneath him next season, like Alonso and Raikkonen he's going to be right there in the championship fight anyway.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

No, Bernie isn't stupid. And he knows fans will pay money just so they can boo a person for doing his job. Some fans are wierd that way. It's going to go on and it would appear Vettel has a handle on the situation in any case.

 

[dsgerbc]

I think it's past this point.

Than it's not your respect he'd want. There are plenty of people sceptical of his abilities. I don't mean that as in 'crappy driver' or anything, I mean that people doubt wether he's all that much better than other top-tier drivers to have deserved all those extra drivers chapionships he's got on them. Personally, I'm not convinced of that. I doubt that 2014 regs will do much to change the picture. It's not in the regs, it's in how far to the fuzzy edge of those teams push.

And he knows fans will pay money just so they can boo a person for doing his job. Some fans are wierd that way.

This cannot raise revenue anywhere near enough relative to where they come to cheer for someone with a real chance of winning.
They boo him not for doing his job, they boo him for his attitude about it.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

And they'll pay and come so they feel the have the right to do so. Either way, Bernie gets his cut. Controversy is good for the press and any press is better than no press. Or so some folks say. And either way, I'll still be rooting for Mr. Vettel to break all those records.

As far as fuzzy edges are concerned, that's what F1 is all about. Pushing the fuzzy edge for gains in performance. There's a lot of money at stake for them, so the ones that have the talent and skill to take advantage of, or, if you like, exploit, an edge that ain't exactly sharp, will do so. I for one fully expect them to and hope they do. Out of their pushing will come improvements that will trickle down to a car I might drive someday.

I would also point out that everyone has a chance of winning, just some have a better chance than others.

 

[Third Reign]

This cannot raise revenue anywhere near enough relative to where they come to cheer for someone with a real chance of winning.
They boo him not for doing his job, they boo him for his attitude about it.

Yet when portrayed in the Pokemon opening song, striving for perfection seems like the hip thing to do.

I don't get whey everyone is complaining about his attitude? What exactly is it that people fault in it? Having a non ending hunger for success is healthy for any form of competition. He doesn't boast with his victories and he is far from arrogant. He knows very well that his success is just as big of a team effort as it is his. I don't see anything wrong there honestly.

Now I'm not trying to say the same person winning is stale by now, but people trying to fault the successful is laughable.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Wow once again everyone is talking about the wrong reasons. Nobody's booing Vettel because he's winning, it's because everyone thinks he doesn't deserve it and because he's a hypocrite. End of discussion.

The race was boring. I really don't know what to say. Wasted up to 9-10 hours of TV time for nothing. Kimi and Alonso managed their tyres well, Rosberg got screwed by the team again and just to further ruin his race something was stuck in his front wing. I feel sorry for Grosjean and Webber, I hope both drivers get a win this season.

I said this in the last grand prix thread, someone needs to replace bad luck brian's face with Di resta's. I don't really rate him highly and I don't really likei him but it's hilarious how unlucky he's been this season. Hulkenberg was just worried about saving his tyres to defend, and Di resta immediately went into the barrier.

That doesn't take into account races they've finished with vehicle defects or defects that have affected their qualifying, only DNFs and classified finishes short of the race distance.

That makes it the most useless statistic ever then.

Booing or cheering someone during a "game" is entirely different to booing or cheering after the "game".

Not necessarily. Doesn't even matter, does it?

Getting sick of Red Bull now, Vettel has just coasted to a win by over 30 seconds. It doesn't matter how good you are that can't be done in the dry without a dominant car, I hope Ricciardo does a better job than Webber next year and at least gives him a run for his money.

Precisely.



RE: Webber vs Vettel failures

That F1 fanatic post is rubbish. I think they missed a lot of occasions where Webber had KERS failure in the race. Ffs even Christian Horner jokes about it all the time

For the record: The KERS system on Webber's car is NOT the same as Vettel so quit saying they have the same equipment.

 

[dsgerbc]

And they'll pay and come so they feel the have the right to do so. Either way, Bernie gets his cut.

Bernie's cut would be higher if the championship fight was tighter.

As far as fuzzy edges are concerned, that's what F1 is all about.

Sure, and this exactly how Bernie will reign in RBR. By making some fuzzy lines less fuzzy.

He knows very well that his success is just as big of a team effort as it is his. I don't see anything wrong there honestly.

but people trying to fault the successful is laughable.

What's laughable is that people attribute far bigger role to Vettel in overall success than seems justified. Your words suggest that it's 50/50, and Vettel's behaviour is probably consistent with that too. I'd say that it's a team effort for about 80-90% if not more, the rest is up to Vettel. And relative to that, he's quite arrogant.

In general, I tend to give a lot less weight to one's success. A lot of the success is quite frequently dumb luck that the successful later portray as their genius decision etc. One has to prove him self in a whole range of different circumstances to show what he's made of.

Newey proved his worth on a number of occasions in different teams, with different drivers, and in different series. Vettel's success so far coincides with him driving Newey's car, so in my book Newey's contribution to those championships far outweigh Vettel's.

I'm open to re-evaluation of my judgement, but that would require either Vettel driving with another tier-one driver on equal footing, or Vettel driving for some other competitive team.

 

[Famine]

That makes it the most useless statistic ever then.

Except for the part where it shows Vettel has had his race ended by reliability twice as often as Webber.

 

[BHRxRacer]

Except for the part where it shows Vettel has had his race ended by reliability twice as often as Webber.

What's the definition of "ended" here? Not making it to the line? I'd rather finish half my races in 1st place than finish all of my races outside the points because of failures. Just because Mark makes it to the finish line doesn't mean his race hasn't ended.

 

[Famine]

What's the definition of "ended" here?

Well... since you quoted the part where I defined it, I'd assume you read it before deciding it was useless...

Not making it to the line? I'd rather finish half my races in 1st place than finish all of my races outside the points because of failures. Just because Mark makes it to the finish line doesn't mean his race hasn't ended.

Luckily someone provided this link for you.

Unfortunately you decided that was also rubbish. So. Let's see your effort...

 

[The Outlaw]

Yet when portrayed in the Pokemon opening song, striving for perfection seems like the hip thing to do.

I don't get whey everyone is complaining about his attitude? What exactly is it that people fault in it? Having a non ending hunger for success is healthy for any form of competition. He doesn't boast with his victories and he is far from arrogant. He knows very well that his success is just as big of a team effort as it is his. I don't see anything wrong there honestly.

Now I'm not trying to say the same person winning is stale by now, but people trying to fault the successful is laughable

Here are a couple of explanations (just my opinion ) as to why Vettel isn't all that liked, at least when it comes to his attitude:

1. Screaming on the radio like a raging monkey when he would win a races and such (it doesn't really bother me much), and saying "yes! yes! yes!" etc. as if to reiterate his dominance.

2. The famous index finger he commonly shows after getting pole or winning a race, as if to remind everyone of his/teams superiority (whether that's what he means to portray or not). Also some of his body langauge/facial expressions might make him come off as a bit of a smart ass/sly guy (not trustworthy) at times....which as animals we will always instinctively judge.

3. His on track tussels with Webber suggest he doesn't really have a whole lot of respect for the guy (although it seems to go both ways to some extent). Also after the incident in Malaysia with Webber, he totally contradicted himself when he tried to explain his actions, which meant he didn't really mean what he said.

To me, these are likely the main reasons why Vettel has so many detractors, particularly when it comes to his attitude. I think the combination of this and his utter dominance over the past few years have led to this as well.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Sorry for the OT, but Lotus just published a funny guide on how to avoid a penalty

 

[Imari]

At the end of the day I like to see competition. When we see such a dominant display like this people will want to boo. I'm just saying that he should take those boos in his stride, that people shouldn't make a big deal out of it.

I'm with you that some people will just do it, and that he should take it in stride, as he seems to. I'm just not of the opinion that it should be considered OK. It's poor sportsmanship, something that applies to the fans as well as the players.