2013 Formula One Hungarian Grand Prix

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Unless Ferrari some how turn their car into a speed demon,the only two with a whiff of a chance are Lewis and Kimi and even that is far fetched.
 
Peasantslayer
I think you misread, he said without. Apparently the longest is Shanghai's back straight but other sources say Korea's after T1.
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A simple Google Earth check shows that Shanghai has the longest at 1,224 meters, Korea's is about 40 meters shorter, the Hungaroring's main straight is 820 meters.
 
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sems4arsenal
Unless Ferrari some how turn their car into a speed demon,the only two with a whiff of a chance are Lewis and Kimi and even that is far fetched.
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That sums up how I feel. If Mercedes/Hamilton work well on other circuits, I could see Hamilton taking the battle to the last round or two.
 
Quick reactions after seeing the tape:

1). Terrific drives from Hamilton and Raikkonen, getting everything there was to be had from their respective cars, albeit in different ways. Hamilton's pass of Webber was epic. And if Kimi had pasted a "none shall pass" sticker to his diffuser before the start of the race, his intent wouldn't have been any clearer.

2). Good drive too from Vettel. I've noticed over the past couple of years that Button never makes it easy for Seb to pass -- there's obviously some tension between the two -- so Vettel's troubles with him this race were consistent with that history. Aside from that RBR was also having electrical gremlins so this was effectively a damage-limitation exercise. Third is a nice return when in that mode.

3). I've no issue with the penalty for Grosjean. He clearly put four wheels off to complete the pass and I'm on-record in a different thread as saying the stewards need to more rigorously enforce track limits.
 
I thought it was common knowledge that China has the longest straight, most of the new Tilke-dome tracks in Asia have long straights China, Korea, India, Malaysia the old school tracks have much smaller ones compared. -which is what the user was saying.

Anyways I think it's safe to echo the sentiment that Ferrari need help if they plan to come back. Before this GP I wasn't willing to say it and still thought they had a fighting chance, but unless they can produce something for Spa and Monza that improves the car....I don't think they'll be finishing higher than fourth in the WCC. Grosjean is stronger than Massa so even if Ferrari come back online I think keeping Lotus behind will be very tough if Massa doesn't pull another second half comeback like he did last year.

Merc GP have to hope that they and Lotus can both minimize the impact of Vettel and Webber, by doing this they can get the WCC (both have chance but I favor MGP). I don't think RBR are as strong as people want to give, we need to look past the small picture of just this GP and look toward the future and realize that with Lotus and Mercedes being fast and having the drivers they do...Vettel will have a hard time against them. If all three cars are equal to each other we may see who the true champion is this year in the last of the V8s because the cars have something the other two don't.

EDIT: Also Samus was right Alonso was dismissed and no penalty for the DRS.
 
I'm very happy that Lewis won, and strongly. He's really been overdue for a win, and probably should have won already in Silverstone had it not been for the exploding tires. It's also good to see that Mercedes are still managing to handle the tires after the poor early races. Reliability looks a bit iffy, however, on account of Rosberg's retirement.
 
I find the Grosjean penalty puzzling.

Not the one with Button. He stuffed up and didn't leave enough room. Dead to rights, there.

But with Massa, I'm not entirely sure what he could have done as a driver. He got alongside Massa early, was cleanly alongside him in the corner, and got shoved wide. It was a totally legal and reasonable move up to the point he ran off track, and Massa basically ran him off the track while fully alongside him. Is there not rules about leaving a competitor space?

I should make it clear I don't think it was intentional on Massa's part either, presumably he'd have held a tighter line if he could have because he was bloody close. But when the choice is bang wheels or run off track, I don't think the rules are accomplishing anything by punishing running off the track to avoid an accident. Particularly when there was no real advantage gained. Grosjean was well alongside before the corner and had the inside line to the next two. Massa wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.
 
I can't help but feel like if Vettel took soft tyres at his last pit then he would have been able to pass Raikkonen. Oh well, let's hope he gets the win next year.
 
otakukid96
I can't help but feel like if Vettel took soft tyres at his last pit then he would have been able to pass Raikkonen. Oh well, let's hope he gets the win next year.
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If he had my prediction would have been nearly perfect but too bad it couldn't be...

HAM VET RAI WEB ROS... I got two right :dopey:👍
 
zippy_the_cat
2). Good drive too from Vettel. I've noticed over the past couple of years that Button never makes it easy for Seb to pass -- there's obviously some tension between the two -- so Vettel's troubles with him this race were consistent with that history. Aside from that RBR was also having electrical gremlins so this was effectively a damage-limitation exercise. Third is a nice return when in that mode.
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I think this might be where that started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi-86Uptjco&t=0m55s

zippy_the_cat
3). I've no issue with the penalty for Grosjean. He clearly put four wheels off to complete the pass and I'm on-record in a different thread as saying the stewards need to more rigorously enforce track limits.
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It's a difficult one, but I believe the penalty was harsh given the circumstances. Massa was very fair and left him as much room as he could (Bearing in mind they were out of sync with their pitstop strategies, so it was pointless Massa defending too aggressively otherwise it would have damaged his own race), but his car still carried too much speed. Grosjean placed his car exactly where it needed to be to make the pass, but had to take off some steering lock mid-corner and go onto the kerb to avoid a collision. I think the term 'gained an advantage' has been used without cause. Grosjean was easily going to make the corner, but he had to take avoiding action despite being ahead of Massa at that point.

I think perhaps the Stewards didn't look at the incident independantly, and let existing prejudice towards Grosjean influence the decision. Anybody else and it would have been a reprimand.

The Button incident was very clear cut, that penalty was deserved. He not only caused a collision by not leaving a car width, but he clearly cut the chicane, gaining both a position and a time advantage.
 
Absolutley loved the race yesterday.

Fantastic drives from Lewis, Kimi, Mark and Jenson, Lewis deserved that win, that move on Mark was brilliant. Kimi did a great job to come home second on those tyres whilst fending off Vettel, was really impressed. I thought Jenson did a good job to hold off Vettel too. Was a pity for Grosjean, I thought he did pretty well up until the overtake on Jenson.
 
Okay race, good for Hamilton, but I'm rather okay on the penalty...Grosjean didn't make a clean pass, and he didn't attempt to return the favor to Button after a completely off-track pass.

Yes, we want to see overtaking, but that's not the way to do it in open-wheel racing. Due to the narrow and twisty confines of this circuit, I don't propose stronger penalties on Grosjean.

Qualifying was a barnstormer, with Kimi doing some nice sliding, even better and Hulkenburg performing an exorcism on what must be a wayward Sauber, at best. Hamilton's final qualifying lap when I was set to secede the session to Vettel.

How much stronger would Red Bull be if KERS worked more reliably...
 
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I dont agree on Grosjean, even if the french tv pissed me off about him earlier, I still think those penalty are harsh and that someone like Vettel or Alonso doing the same pass would have gotten praise from everyone here. I'm not surprised tho, people on this forum dont like Grosjean that much
 
Great race and great drives all around. Big congrats to Lewis for the win and to Kimi for an heroic stint and defense.

Also ... right at the start of the GP I got mad at Sebastian Vettelm for very nearly shoving Grosjean out of the track. The french kid is clearly being treated as a pushover by the vets or well established drivers, but to my amazement he didn't yield and although the RBR and Lotus' wheels almost interlocked they all somehow got away safely.

The Grosjean-Button move is a tough call and I can accept him being penalized, but to say the Grosjean-Massa move is worthy of anything else then PRAISE is idiotic.

Grosjean is a very quick, very talented driver, holding his own quite nicely when paired with one of the best (KR). I do hope he stops being bullied in F1 because of incidents past and gets on to become a GP winner and WDC winner. No joke, I think he is that kind of material.

I think all that's needed is to watch this:
 
Unfortunately for Grosjean he has again hindered himself with the contact with Button, if he hadn't have had that I think he would be getting a bit more sympathy.
But, F1 (and motor racing in general) is not just about being quick.

I don't think the Button incident is a tough call. Its as straight-forward as you can get - certainly a racing incident taken in isolation..but considering its Grosjean possibly punishable just for continually lacking situation awareness.

Grosjean's incident with Button was very much like Hamilton's with Kobayashi at Spa 2011 - trying to take a diagonal line across the track in a braking zone with a car alongside.

I agree that the Massa incident isn't worth punishment. I definitely think there is a point where we shouldn't be punishing drivers for actually racing. They shouldn't be afraid to race just because they infringe a rule by avoiding an accident oh so slightly.

The move on Massa is pretty much the perfect example of where punishing to the letter of the rules doesn't necessarily always make sense to improve the racing.
 
RX-7_FD3S
I dont agree on Grosjean, even if the french tv pissed me off about him earlier, I still think those penalty are harsh and that someone like Vettel or Alonso doing the same pass would have gotten praise from everyone here. I'm not surprised tho, people on this forum dont like Grosjean that much
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Actually I also believe the penalties were daft; Romain ran with all four wheels off the track to avoid making contact with Massa, who had not left him enough room round the outside. To punish a driver for causing a collision is fine; but to punish a driver for trying to avoid one is ridiculous! It was Felipe's fault for running him out that wide; had he done that in Monaco, he would have put Romain in the barriers. And anyhow even if Massa had left him enough room and Romain had not gone wide as a result, Grosjean would still have passed. After all he had by far the better line for the next corner. As for the Button incident, that was admittedly a tad clumsy; however quite frankly a lot of the drivers were performing a tad under par when it came to spacial awareness this grand prix! :indiff:
 
I don't agree it was Massa's fault either - he had every right to run a defensive inside line too. Its just the corner is quite a tight line so its almost impossible for 2 cars to run side-by-side fast in that corner.
Its the same as overtaking around the outside at 130R at Suzuka - the defending driver has every right to try and defend the corner and run the inside line, but he's always going to run wide trying to do so. Neither driver is in the wrong for attempting to attack/defend and this should be considered when looking at either driver running off track.

Any overtake is almost always going to result in a compromised line for both attacking and defending drivers. In a slow or wide corner this isn't a problem as its easier to use the space available. But in fast or tight corners, its inevitably going to lead to some running off track or contact trying to pull the move off. This is where the stewards need to allow the drivers to actually race and risk the move. Penalties should be relative in this area, not strict by-the-letter.
 
Decent race, entertaining enough.
Grojean is at it again and again...
Vettel as usual bending the rules at the start by running people wide.
About time Hami'got a win.
 
He dedicated his win to Nicole didn't he, they split up about a month ago after 4 years together, so you cant blame him for being lovesick...at least its not effecting his driving!
 
MUSC4EVER
He dedicated his win to Nicole didn't he, they split up about a month ago after 4 years together, so you cant blame him for being lovesick...at least its not effecting his driving!
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Didn't they split up in the past and get back together?

Either way good race. I find it funny how at the start of the weekend Lewis said to the media that he thought Mercedes had lost ground to Red Bull in the development race and then goes and wins.
 
Yeah I think this is the second time they have split up..
 
MUSC4EVER
He dedicated his win to Nicole didn't he, they split up about a month ago after 4 years together, so you cant blame him for being lovesick...at least its not effecting his driving!
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Considering everyone doesn't blink an eye at any other driver's private life and doesn't consider it when rating how well they are doing on track, it would be nice if we just ignored it for Hamilton too.
 
Alright, thought it was worth mentioning that all...
 
Ardius
I don't agree it was Massa's fault either - he had every right to run a defensive inside line too. Its just the corner is quite a tight line so its almost impossible for 2 cars to run side-by-side fast in that corner.
Its the same as overtaking around the outside at 130R at Suzuka - the defending driver has every right to try and defend the corner and run the inside line, but he's always going to run wide trying to do so. Neither driver is in the wrong for attempting to attack/defend and this should be considered when looking at either driver running off track.

Any overtake is almost always going to result in a compromised line for both attacking and defending drivers. In a slow or wide corner this isn't a problem as its easier to use the space available. But in fast or tight corners, its inevitably going to lead to some running off track or contact trying to pull the move off. This is where the stewards need to allow the drivers to actually race and risk the move. Penalties should be relative in this area, not strict by-the-letter.
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Fair point, well made! :) 👍
 
Ardius
...it would be nice if we just ignored it for Hamilton too.
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Agreed, but cars do run faster with less (emotional) baggage.
 
MUSC4EVER
Alright, thought it was worth mentioning that all...
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It isn't. If you think back to the last time they broke up, Hamilton was perpetually moping and the tabloids were lapping it up. At the same time, Fernando Alonso was going through a divorce which the tabloids seemingly ignored. Oh, and his wife also happened to be a famous singer, although admittedly, she probably isn't quite as famous as Nicole.

Anyway, are we going to talk about racing or talk about who the drivers are sleeping with?
 
F1 fan
Anyway, are we going to talk about racing or talk about who the drivers are sleeping with?
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I'm surprised that you saw the race, I thought you turned your TV off every time Hamilton was on screen.
 
SilverArrow
I'm surprised that you saw the race, I thought you turned your TV off every time Hamilton was on screen.
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:rolleyes:

I make no secret of the fact that I don't like Hamilton but I don't let that get in the way of my watching the sport that I love. I have been getting up at all hours of the night to follow it for more than twenty years. And to be fair, I dislike him for the stupid behaviour he has been guilty of in the past. He's mostly been keeping his nose clean since that ridiculous season he had in 2011, hence why I haven't criticized him much since then. Look back at my posts since then and you'll see that.
 
Pupik
Agreed, but cars do run faster with less (emotional) baggage.
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Of course, my point is more about how this is rarely or never even considered when talking about other drivers. So to make it fair, it would make more sense (and less celebrity) if we just ignored it for Hamilton too.

We get a lot of it about Hamilton because:
1. He allows his emotions to run wild and consume him sometimes.
2. He's British and famous so finds the attention of the British press.
3. He's seen as some kind of badboy outside of F1 - which further helps 1 and 2.
4. He's dating another celebrity.
5. He seems to have pissed off some journalists somewhere.
 
It's the first time I've heard Hamilton was a badboy. Sorry but where did you get that ? No one knows Hamilton outside of F1 in my country, maybe it's different in GB, sure he overspeed in a black merc and was at the Sutil incident but other than that I dont see it and most non-f1 fans have no idea that he did that (again in my country and in france at least). His image over here is closer to a superstar like hollywood movie star or very famous singer with it's up and down.
 
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