2013 NASCAR Thread

[OutlawQuadrnt]

What if Bowyer goes into Homestead with the points lead? Is there any chance that Gordon won't punt him in the first five laps? Imagine the fight that could trigger between the 4 HMS teams and 3 MWR teams on pit road or in the garage. I would hate to guess the size and scope of the penalties that NASCAR would have to hand down for that.

Something like this already happened... Gordon taking out Bowyer last year at Phoenix. 25 points was the penalty.

 

[iRevelationz]

What if Bowyer goes into Homestead with the points lead? Is there any chance that Gordon won't punt him in the first five laps? Imagine the fight that could trigger between the 4 HMS teams and 3 MWR teams on pit road or in the garage. I would hate to guess the size and scope of the penalties that NASCAR would have to hand down for that.

I don't think the drivers will let Bowyer get in the position to enter Homestead as the leader anyways, but if they do, I don't see him leaving with the championship.

And there's the problem with this whole deal. NASCAR doesn't do a thing to Bowyer, but when a driver serves justice by stuffing him in the wall, THEN NASCAR will step in and hit that person with a heavy penalty/fine/suspension.

And that will lead to the self-destruction of every NASCAR forum on the internet.

 

[MustangRyan]

Something like this already happened... Gordon taking out Bowyer last year at Phoenix. 25 points was the penalty.

You don't think it will be higher if it happens again, especially if it definitely affects the championship in the final race of the season?

 

[lintels123]

Gordon already ruined Clints shot at the championship last year. Bowyer was well in contention for a chance to win it the position he was running before Jeff destroyed any hope at Phoenix. It would be the same thing, just 1 race later, if it were to come down to that at Homestead.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

You don't think it will be higher if it happens again, especially if it definitely affects the championship in the final race of the season?

Who says it has to be the last race? It might happen next week. Would NASCAR penalize the same as they would if it happened in Homestead? What if a non-Chaser accidentally takes out a Chase contender? Will we see big penalties in those cases, now? DQ's for next year's Chase? Race bans?

Too many questions that I hope we don't find answers to.

 

[Bhowe83]

First two points are true. 3rd point is 100% false.

Sorry, could have swore they did. Guess it was just too late last night for my brain to be working

No, it should be banned. It's time to stop rewarding bad behavior that is detrimental to the sport.

How about we go back to the way things were when Richard Petty racked up 200 wins and race winners lapped 2nd place a couple of times? Times change, it's time to move forward.

No other sanctioned sport allows this sort of loser gets rewarded mentality. Oh wait, it's the participation trophy generation!!!

The Redskins are still alive. Good thing RG3 didn't just give up and collect his paycheck.

How is not being able to complete the race because your start-up team doesn't have the funds to run the full race? So you'd call parking to save equipment worse behaviour than trying to run the full races, then potentially blowing motors, breaking parts, or blowing tires, all of which would disrupt the race and potentially endanger drivers/fans?

 

[TheDabbinDave]

...(cause it looks like people gave up helping you)...

Nope, the question was answered after I asked it, short of showing the actual points lists. It's not really a difficult question to answer if you have the knowledge, as you did.

Your snide and demeaning remark is probably in violation of the AUP.

Gordon already ruined Clints shot at the championship last year. Bowyer was well in contention for a chance to win it the position he was running before Jeff destroyed any hope at Phoenix. It would be the same thing, just 1 race later, if it were to come down to that at Homestead.

Payback would be exciting to see!

How is not being able to complete the race because your start-up team doesn't have the funds to run the full race? So you'd call parking to save equipment worse behaviour than trying to run the full races, then potentially blowing motors, breaking parts, or blowing tires, all of which would disrupt the race and potentially endanger drivers/fans?

Racing in the top levels of NASCAR is a far cry from SCCA "track day" events, where you simply run what you bring. Such as your grocery getter. Sprint Cup is not a "Home Track" type of thing. It is the echelon of stock car racing.

 

[lintels123]

Payback would be exciting to see!

Two wrongs don't make a right, but yes it would be very exciting. We can only wait and see how Gordon races Bowyer these last 10 races.

 

[Snaeper]

I believe, ultimately, the reason why Bowyer wasn't penalized out of the Chase, is because there isn't substantial amounts of evidence against him to suggest he spun out on purpose. Sure it looks that way, sure that's how it probably happened because it really is all too coincidental, but ultimately, the only proof they have about race manipulation was the 55 being called into the pits to give Logano a point. Giving Bowyer a 50 point penalty is like saying "We know you did something wrong, but we can't prove it."

And ultimately, in the spirit of controversy and competition, Bowyer would make a much better show being in the chase than Gordon would, since he's been quite noncompetitive all year long, and he now has this black cloud to draw attention to himself over.

 

[RACECAR]

I believe, ultimately, the reason why Bowyer wasn't penalized out of the Chase, is because there isn't substantial amounts of evidence against him to suggest he spun out on purpose. Sure it looks that way, sure that's how it probably happened because it really is all too coincidental, but ultimately, the only proof they have about race manipulation was the 55 being called into the pits to give Logano a point. Giving Bowyer a 50 point penalty is like saying "We know you did something wrong, but we can't prove it."

And ultimately, in the spirit of controversy and competition, Bowyer would make a much better show being in the chase than Gordon would, since he's been quite noncompetitive all year long, and he now has this black cloud to draw attention to himself over.

So ultimately, like the chase, its all about the show.

 

[BKGlover]

As it has been since 200X(insert you're personal idea of when). F1 is about the spectacle, the NFL promotes big hits because they put asses in the seats, then penalize the player later. There are no "professional" sports anymore, and unless someone is in a seriously life-threatening condition, I couldn't care less for anyone who is considered a "professional" athlete. Someone said NASCAR was going to wrestling, wrestling has been where NASCAR want's to be, left, and got lost making the trip back.

Also, you guys don't think an 80 point suspension wouldn't be NASCAR blatantly ruling in their favor? If you want to knock him out, KNOCK HIM OUT! 100-150 points.

 

[Earth]

Im more disappointed in Michael Waltrip Racing then I am in NASCAR. Like a true coward they're pinning the entire mess onto Brian Vicker's spotter, like he worked alone without their consent. I lost alot of respect for Michael Waltrip after that statement. Clint Bowyer too, for lying the entire time and still not admitting what he did.

NASCAR docked the #15 50 points. Thats basically an entire race. If the #15 wasnt so high in points he would have dropped out of the chase too. Docking the #15 100 points would have been excessive. Yes he tried to alter the outcome of a race, so NASCAR basically took a race from him. Taking two races from him would have been excessive for intentionally causing a caution.

In the end, the 15's biggest punishment is having to look at himself in the mirror everyday, knowing what he did. And you can be sure he will get roughed up on track at some point during the chase.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And you can be sure he will get roughed up on track at some point during the chase.

By Mr Gordon himself.

 

[Furinkazen]

We ain't seen the last of 2013 paybacks that's for sure.

 

[BKGlover]

Docking the #15 100 points would have been excessive. Yes he tried to alter the outcome of a race, so NASCAR basically took a race from him. Taking two races from him would have been excessive for intentionally causing a caution.

True but those who wanted 80 point suspensions because that would have put him out by one were the focus.

In the end, the 15's biggest punishment is having to look at himself in the mirror everyday, knowing what he did. And you can be sure he will get roughed up on track at some point during the chase.

Pros have no shame.

 

[Bhowe83]

Racing in the top levels of NASCAR is a far cry from SCCA "track day" events, where you simply run what you bring. Such as your grocery getter. Sprint Cup is not a "Home Track" type of thing. It is the echelon of stock car racing.

The Sprint Cup Series no longer pays more to win than build. There used to be a time when sponsors were plentiful and cars were equal and easy to build. Any team could win. Now these cars are aero beasts and a financial nightmare. Only the big monopolies can run this series competitively. So unless you want 30 or less car field, you need the start and park model

 

[RVDNuT374]

We ain't seen the last of 2013 paybacks that's for sure.

Agreed. Clint Bowyer is definitely a marked man for the rest of this season, which could make the "action" interesting.

 

[Pupik]

No other sanctioned sport allows this sort of loser gets rewarded mentality. Oh wait, it's the participation trophy generation!!!

NASCAR's been giving out prize money to everyone for decades to guarantee their continued participation, so you can't blame the "little league sports".

Want the "start-and-parkers" to stop? Do this:

The only realistic idea might be to give no prize money for finishing in the bottom 5 spots (or some other number).

 

[Müle]

Or do what the FIA does. Make it so that any car whichh doesnt complete a minimum distance is officially "Not Classified" and gets no points.

No points = no prize money.

 

[-Fred-]

So unless you want 30 or less car field, you need the start and park model

*Shrugs* I could care less if rolling chicanes like Joe Nemechek, Michael McDowell and David Stremme are not in the field, just to name those guys. No disrespect meant, but if they're struggling week in and week out just to get to the race, finishing dead last because you retired 20 laps in and getting said prize money obviously isn't working out for them all that well. It's just a wheel that'll keep on rolling and you'll never get out of bottom.

I'd rather see 30 strong cars instead of 20 good ones, 15 average ones and 8 garbage ones.

 

[RACECAR]

*Shrugs* I could care less if rolling chicanes like Joe Nemechek, Michael McDowell and David Stremme are not in the field, just to name those guys. No disrespect meant, but if they're struggling week in and week out just to get to the race, finishing dead last because you retired 20 laps in and getting said prize money obviously isn't working out for them all that well. It's just a wheel that'll keep on rolling and you'll never get out of bottom.

I'd rather see 30 strong cars instead of 20 good ones, 15 average ones and 8 garbage ones.

Unfortunately even without S&Ps , you're still gonna get some garbage thanks to certain ride buyers.

 

[Jahgee]

*Shrugs* I could care less if rolling chicanes like Joe Nemechek, Michael McDowell and David Stremme are not in the field, just to name those guys. No disrespect meant, but if they're struggling week in and week out just to get to the race, finishing dead last because you retired 20 laps in and getting said prize money obviously isn't working out for them all that well. It's just a wheel that'll keep on rolling and you'll never get out of bottom.

I'd rather see 30 strong cars instead of 20 good ones, 15 average ones and 8 garbage ones.

I see you saw my post

I'd prefer 10 teams with 4 cars each that run every race and are all top tier, then 20 top tier, 15 lower tier former start and parkers, and 8 start and parkers

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Don't you think that'd look a little fishy? Both MWR cars randomly pit under green in the last 5-6 laps? There'd still be blatant radio transmissions and we'd be right where we are now, except Gordon would be the one replacing Truex instead of Newman, who'd make it in via the second win.

It doesn't matter there is no rule that says you can't call drivers into pits when ever you want even, if blatant have you forgotten start and parks, MWR does them and it is legal.

You Gordon supports are killing me. His down fall were 25 races prior to the 26th.

 

[Wilbur]

It doesn't matter there is no rule that says you can't call drivers into pits when ever you want even if blatant have you forgotten start and parks, MWR does them and it is legal.

You Gordon supports are killing me. His down fall were 25 races prior to the 26th.

This point is exactly why I don't fully understand why the uproar with 55 or even MWR who in that part of it, did nothing that another team hasn't. Teams let others pass to lead a lap, or will stay out under caution for a bonus point, whats it any different?

Yet nascar actually didn't say anything about Bowyer's spin, so I'm a bit confused overall as Nascar can't even get their rules correct either.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This point is exactly why I don't fully understand why the uproar with 55 or even MWR who in that part of it, did nothing that another team hasn't. Teams let others pass to lead a lap, or will stay out under caution for a bonus point, whats it any different?

Yet nascar actually didn't say anything about Bowyer's spin, so I'm a bit confused overall as Nascar can't even get their rules correct either.

Wouldn't be the first group that can't do it, the FIA has the same issue. It isn't any different people just want a reason to complain Gordon isn't in and use that sugar coated lie, while you've pointed out reality in a nicer manner than I choose to. 👍

Nope, the question was answered after I asked it, short of showing the actual points lists. It's not really a difficult question to answer if you have the knowledge, as you did.

Your snide and demeaning remark is probably in violation of the AUP.

How would it be a violation of AUP. More importantly all I said was based from what I could see people gave up helping you and I thought you should have the right to know the rules. Since you are actually asking and not pretending to know I wanted to help. Also not sure how I came across as such maybe because of past differences I've had, I don't know but I'll make sure to never help you out again.

 

[GTPorsche]

I'd be more annoyed if Jeff had been competitive this year, but I also would rather not see him do horrible in the chase for a second year in a row. Someone else can have that opportunity.

 

[BKGlover]

Logano, Bowyer, and Jr.?

 

[Snaeper]

So ultimately, like the chase, its all about the show.

Well I wasn't speaking factually or anything, but I would much rather see Bowyer in the Chase when he's been in contention all year, than Gordon, who was barely in contention. Also, I think NASCAR would have more than likely swapped the two if they were closer together (i.e. Bowyer was where Logano currently is), but they're not.

Also, it seems my theory was correct:

Mike Helton interview on MWR Penalties

Q. I just want to clarify a couple things. Essentially with what you were talking about the with the spin with the 15 car with Clint, you basically said that you didn't have conclusive evidence that he spun intentionally. You mentioned cars spin all the time; is that correct, that you don't have conclusive evidence that that was an intentional spin; is that correct? Did I understand you?

MIKE HELTON: There's not conclusive evidence that the 15 spin was intentional. There's a lot of chatter, there's the video that shows a car spinning, but we didn't see anything conclusive that that was intentional.

 

[iRevelationz]

It doesn't matter there is no rule that says you can't call drivers into pits when ever you want even, if blatant have you forgotten start and parks, MWR does them and it is legal

Then what was MWR penalized for?

Also, I'm not upset about Bowyer/Vickers coming down pit road to give Logano the spots. That's fine. What I'm upset about is Bowyer's intentional spin that started all of this. Truex is the least guilty one here and gets kicked from the Chase, while Bowyer gets absolutely nothing done to him because there's "not enough evidence of intent".

 

[Ganon83]

*Shrugs* I could care less if rolling chicanes like Joe Nemechek, Michael McDowell and David Stremme are not in the field.