2013 NASCAR Thread

[RACECAR]

If they are so capable of screwing up three days in a row, what makes anyone think a petition will get them to listen?

I understand the feelings, but its pointless.

 

[iRevelationz]

NASCAR takes action, screws up and make an even bigger mess than they already had. Why am I not surprised?

And Gordon has every right to be furious. Both Newman and Gordon were simultaneously in position to make the Chase. They both had it robbed from them. NASCAR reverses the call, yet only Newman gets his Chase spot back.

Screw a friggin' ripple effect. This is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Blitz24]

NASCAR takes action, screws up and make an even bigger mess than they already had. Why am I not surprised?

And Gordon has every right to be furious. Both Newman and Gordon were simultaneously in position to make the Chase. They both had it robbed from them. NASCAR reverses the call, yet only Newman gets his Chase spot back.

Unbelievable.

Simple fix. Hit the 80 instead of the 50. Bowyer out, Gordon in.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

I know I'm late to the party, but to ban start and parking is absurd. Start and Parking is a needed way for smaller teams to get going in this economy. They don't have the money or resources to run full events, so they don't.

Many top 20 teams started as start and park rides. The 13 team, who is in the top 15 week in and out started off as a start and park team that "should be banned." Front Row Motorsports, aka the team that swept the top 2 at Talladega started as a start and park team. And remember this, at one point the 78 car, a car that is well in the chase and championship hunt was once a start and park team.

So no, start and parking shouldn't be banned, and you should get your head from betwixt your cheeks.

No, it should be banned. It's time to stop rewarding bad behavior that is detrimental to the sport.

How about we go back to the way things were when Richard Petty racked up 200 wins and race winners lapped 2nd place a couple of times? Times change, it's time to move forward.

No other sanctioned sport allows this sort of loser gets rewarded mentality. Oh wait, it's the participation trophy generation!!!

The Redskins are still alive. Good thing RG3 didn't just give up and collect his paycheck.

 

[iRevelationz]

Simple fix. Hit the 80 instead of the 50. Bowyer out, Gordon in.

But the way I understand, Bowyer's points penalty counts to pre-Chase seeding. Still gets to start with as many points as anyone else without a win.

So basically, he wasn't penalized at all.

 

[Blitz24]

But the way I understand, Bowyer's points penalty counts to pre-Chase seeding. Still gets to start with as many points as anyone else without a win.

So basically, he wasn't penalized at all.

80 point pre-chase penalty knocks the 15 out of the Chase as he was locked in by only 79.

 

[SagarisGTB]

NASCAR takes action, screws up and make an even bigger mess than they already had. Why am I not surprised?

And Gordon has every right to be furious. Both Newman and Gordon were simultaneously in position to make the Chase. They both had it robbed from them. NASCAR reverses the call, yet only Newman gets his Chase spot back.

There was no call reversal. The MWR cars got 50 point penalties and because Truex held a small lead over Newman in the chase for the second wild card, it was enough for him to fall out and for Newman to get the second wildcard. Gordon was competing with Logano for the last top 10 spot and there was no reason to penalize Logano, so kept his spot and Gordon didn't get in.

Nascar would have had to give Bowyer a bigger penalty to get Gordon in, but they didn't. Oh well.

 

[iRevelationz]

There was no call reversal. The MWR cars got 50 point penalties and because Truex held a small lead over Newman in the chase for the second wild card, it was enough for him to fall out and for Newman to get the second wildcard. Gordon was competing with Logano for the last top 10 spot and there was no reason to penalize Logano, so kept his spot and Gordon didn't get in.

It's awfully simple, even for a non-regular Nascar watcher like me.

Logano doesn't need to be penalized here, Bowyer does. Penalize him enough to knock him out of the Chase and give it to Gordon.

I don't care how much better Clint outperformed him throughout the year, there is no way in hell he deserves to be wasting a Chase spot after what happened Saturday.

 

[GTPorsche]

It was the promise of a kiss to Vickers from Ty Norris that got them the penalty, apparently.

 

[RACECAR]

Suddenly, I'm regretting rooting for Vickers to get his seat. It means now he's their Felipe Massa and I'm not quite sure anyone else would want to pick him up.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

Motor Racing Network discussion on the lack of punishment for the 15.
https://www.facebook.com/MotorRacingNetwork/posts/10151872020889208:0

Michael needs to fix this, but he won't be able to.

 

[MustangRyan]

You can't give a guy an 80 point penalty for something he did in one race. He could have no-showed at Richmond, and still made the Chase on points. He earned that right, like it or not.

 

[GTPorsche]

You can't give a guy an 80 point penalty for something he did in one race. He could have no-showed at Richmond, and still made the Chase on points. He earned that right, like it or not.

It's called making a statement.

Something NASCAR apparently didn't want to do.

 

[iRevelationz]

You can't give a guy an 80 point penalty for something he did in one race. He could have no-showed at Richmond, and still made the Chase on points. He earned that right, like it or not.

I can't, no, but NASCAR can. He earned that right, and his actions Saturday night earned him the right to have it taken away.

But instead, he gets off the hook with a practically non-existant penalty that will have absolutely no impact on the rest of his season.

I look at this lack of enforcement as NASCAR giving the green light for other teams to do what MWR and Bowyer did. Not good for the sport.

 

[Blitz24]

I can't, no, but NASCAR can. He earned that right, and his actions Saturday night earned him the right to have it taken away.

But instead, he gets off the hook with a practically non-existant penalty that will have absolutely no impact on the rest of his season.

I look at this lack of enforcement as NASCAR giving the green light for other teams to do what MWR and Bowyer did. Not good for the sport.

NASCAR then needs to make the rule more stiff. The intended result of the actions was ignored. Next time, the attempt will be sitting the driver(s) and team involved. Pretty sure sponsors won't like that and the team will rethink their actions.

 

[iRevelationz]

NASCAR then needs to make the rule more stiff. The intended result of the actions was ignored. Next time, the attempt will be sitting the driver(s) and team involved. Pretty sure sponsors won't like that and the team will rethink their actions.

And even if NASCAR doesn't start dropping the hammer, what sponsor would want any part in something like this? Forget where they stand from a morality view, the fans start boycotting products (look at 5 Hour Energy's Facebook), sponsors can't have that, then they get involved whether they want to or not.

This is all gonna lead to a BIG mess and NASCAR has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Northstar]

I'm shocked NASCAR did anything at all, even if what they did wasn't a whole lot better than doing nothing.

Ultimately, this whole fiasco will just be more evidence of the stupidity of the chase & wild card.

 

[Müle]

I think this speaks for itself.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Well, this has been an interesting two days. Here's my takeaways:

1. 50 points for all MWR drivers is... well, that's actually what I had in mind for a penalty in my head early in the morning.

2. As for Jeff Gordon and all his fans, the 24 should've been more competitive in the other 25 races so they wouldn't have be such in a vulnerable position in the first place. Just like with any other sports, if you put yourself on the bubble, you're at risk of something popping it. If it wasn't Bowyer's spin, it might've been a "debris" caution two laps later, his engine suddenly letting go or him cutting down a tire.

3. Not sure what I feel about Truex's predicament. If I was him, I'd find a way to bolt out of MWR.

4. To be technical about it, the spin didn't necessarily ruin Newman's race. His pit crew did.

5. What surprises me the most if that something like this took this long to happen.

6. NASCAR wanted drama with the Chase and they sure got it. Unfortunately, I feel this whole scenario will only embolden their stance to keep it whereas I want them to cut down the season to 26 races.

 

[The Bman]

6. NASCAR wanted drama with the Chase and they sure got it. Unfortunately, I feel this whole scenario will only embolden their stance to keep it whereas I want them to cut down the season to 26 races.

Funny enough, after the race at Richmond I actually thought about a 26 race schedule. 💡

 

[Wilbur]

There are so many angles this went and could go and I have expressed it.

Truex didn't deserve to be in the chase, neither did Jeff, the guys who are in are in because they did the best when it mattered. I get why MWR did what they did and even Boywer but it was crappy move (they should have spun someone instead) but I really have no issues with them pitting to allow someone to gain some points either since I find it kind of hard to believe JJ was that far off at first or their game plan wasn't to ride in the back part of the pack.

MWR lost alot of respect from folks but Bowyer will keep some of his. Bowyer was confused and with things unfolding, really didn't know the right move in a split second choice but he gets paid to drive, it's hard to tell someone know who writes the checks too. We can all say we would be different til we are put in that situation for long term.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's really confusing. P11 & 12 were wildcards. Anyone p13 - p43 are OUT.

NASCAR is assuming Ryan would've won and treating this as such, right?

No, once again as the rules dictate (cause it looks like people gave up helping you) if you sit p11 and p12 and p13 have one or more wins by start of chase, then P11 driver doesn't get wildcard. They are going off that rule, not the idea that somehow Newman would have won if the caution didn't come out, it still could of in a legitimate form.

As for Truex being punished, I feel that was a bad move but I can't say I didn't understand where others were coming from. Also as for Gordon, people here and other places explained why he didn't get in and people should stop crying about it. He didn't have the track position prior to the caution or after and thus was screwed either way, just much more so after Bowyer's move.

 

[iRevelationz]

He didn't have the track position prior to the caution or after and thus was screwed either way, just much more so after Bowyer's move.

Except for him being 2 points to the good before Bowyer's spin.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Except for him being 2 points to the good before Bowyer's spin.

With 10 laps to go that isn't a guarantee that he would have made it. People need to accept the fact that he was horrible much of the year and due to that he didn't make the chase. I also must say with that in mind I'm starting to not be disheartened by the fact Truex didn't get to be kept in.

 

[iRevelationz]

With 10 laps to go that isn't a guarantee that he would have made it. People need to accept the fact that he was horrible much of the year and due to that he didn't make the chase. I also must say with that in mind I'm starting to not be disheartened by the fact Truex didn't get to be kept in.

Sure it's not a guarantee, but the likelihood of something going wrong was extremely slim. As it stood, Gordon and Newman were in, Truex was out. MWR had nothing to lose at that point, so might as well take the chance.

I fully accept the fact Gordon and the whole team should've been better throughout the season, but even with all the trouble, they were still well on their way to earning their spot and had it robbed from them.

But the Gordon deal isn't what upsets me the most. I do not understand why Truex, probably the least guilty one in the whole thing is the one getting smashed with the hammer, while the one responsible for all of this, Bowyer, gets off the hook with no penalty at all (no I'm not counting that joke of a 50 point penalty that impacts absolutely nothing). I'm not saying Truex should get away free, but this is absurd.

 

[MustangRyan]

Even if Bowyer had never spun out, but he and Vickers had just come to pit road, Logano would have made up the two spots, and tied Gordon for points, and taken the 10th spot. Newman would have won the race, and he and Kahne would have been the wild cards, and Logano would be in 10th place. I think everyone is pissed about the spin, but had they just parked the two cars that were behind Gordon but in front of Logano, they could have still forced this outcome.

If Gordon should be upset about anything, it should be for letting Kasey Kahne pass him on the outside at Pocono in the final laps. That is what kept him out of the Chase more than anything else, not winning a race. The extra 4 points for winning (vs 2nd place) would have also been huge.

 

[iRevelationz]

Even if Bowyer had never spun out, but he and Vickers had just come to pit road, Logano would have made up the two spots, and tied Gordon for points, and taken the 10th spot. Newman would have won the race, and he and Kahne would have been the wild cards, and Logano would be in 10th place. I think everyone is pissed about the spin, but had they just parked the two cars that were behind Gordon but in front of Logano, they could have still forced this outcome.

If Gordon should be upset about anything, it should be for letting Kasey Kahne pass him on the outside at Pocono in the final laps. That is what kept him out of the Chase more than anything else, not winning a race. The extra 4 points for winning (vs 2nd place) would have also been huge.

Don't you think that'd look a little fishy? Both MWR cars randomly pit under green in the last 5-6 laps? There'd still be blatant radio transmissions and we'd be right where we are now, except Gordon would be the one replacing Truex instead of Newman, who'd make it in via the second win.

 

[MustangRyan]

Don't you think that'd look a little fishy? Both MWR cars randomly pit under green in the last 5-6 laps? There'd still be blatant radio transmissions and we'd be right where we are now, except Gordon would be the one replacing Truex instead of Newman, who'd make it in via the second win.

Gordon still wouldn't get in. Logano would move into the top 10 in points because of the two positions gained on the track by passing Bowyer/Vickers. Gordon would still fall out. Newman and Kahne get the wild card spots, as both are outside the top 10, with 2 race wins. This would be the exact scenario we have now, except Newman didn't get the race win. As a wild card, his wins are worth 0 points, so it truly doesn't matter.

The person that should be pissed is Kurt Busch. Had the black-flagged Carl Edwards, Kurt would have won the race, and gained 3 bonus points for the Chase. Imagine how mad he will be if he loses the title by anything less than 3 points.

 

[iRevelationz]

Gordon still wouldn't get in. Logano would move into the top 10 in points because of the two positions gained on the track by passing Bowyer/Vickers. Gordon would still fall out. Newman and Kahne get the wild card spots, as both are outside the top 10, with 2 race wins. This would be the exact scenario we have now, except Newman didn't get the race win. As a wild card, his wins are worth 0 points, so it truly doesn't matter.

The person that should be pissed is Kurt Busch. Had the black-flagged Carl Edwards, Kurt would have won the race, and gained 3 bonus points for the Chase. Imagine how mad he will be if he loses the title by anything less than 3 points.

Or on the same token if Edwards wins the championship by any less than 3 points.

God this is one hell of mess. I usually stay on top of things like these things pretty well and I can't keep up with this.

 

[MustangRyan]

What if Bowyer goes into Homestead with the points lead? Is there any chance that Gordon won't punt him in the first five laps? Imagine the fight that could trigger between the 4 HMS teams and 3 MWR teams on pit road or in the garage. I would hate to guess the size and scope of the penalties that NASCAR would have to hand down for that.