2014 Formula 1 United States Grand Prix

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yzfmike

yzfmike

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That familiar world wide Circus is back in Texas for the 17th Round of the F1 World Championship. Mercedes has wrapped up the Constructors championship at the last race in Sochi with the drivers yet to be decided. Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg are still duking it out with Hamilton having a slight lead at 17 points. Hamilton was the race winner for the 2012 Season and Sebastian Vettel won last year.

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Race Date: 02 Nov 2014

Circuit Name: Circuit of The Americas

First Grand Prix: 2012

Number of Laps: 56

Circuit Length: 3.427 mi (5.513 km)

Race Distance: 191.66 Miles (308.405 km)

Lap Record: 1:39.347 - S Vettel (2012) ​
 
^^ double post :D

Since I don't care who wins the WDC I'll be hoping that Rosberg gets a few points back into contention, just to add to the drama. For the win, I would like Ferrari to take this one and Alonso is the most deserving Ferrari driver as we speak. If no Ferrari (quite probable), than I'd like to see wonder-boy Ricciardo or old horse Jenson Button up there.

And that's what I have to say for now, thanks for reading! :lol:
 
Let's be completely honest. A driver with the name of Hamilton or Rosberg will be winning the race, barring any catastrophic mechanical or mental failures.
 
And isn't it likely that Vettel's going to take a 10-place grid penalty for his engine? Or is that just likely to happen later this season?
 
Can anyone PM me a video of the 2012 race that is not just the in car footage? I know there is a full race vid with only in-car, which is kinda cool, but I really wish I could watch the original broadcast. I remember it being such a fun race. Wish I knew why [F1] races in general are so hard to find online. I've probably asked before too...

yzfmike
Yes, most likely. He's not planning to even do qualifying.
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What?! Source! Unless he's thinking a start from pit lane would be better? I can't understand that line of thinking without context....even if you assume you'll do no better than middle of the pack, after how you did the last 4 years, surely you'd still go out and enjoy the track and the feeling of racing, yes?

Although, I've heard drivers such as Alonso saying certain races were indeed boring to him, so perhaps the thrill really is in winning/getting a podium.

GTPorsche
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/28/formula-one-sebastian-vettel-us-grand-prix-grid-penalty
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Oh, I see, it's a mileage saving choice.
 
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Whodoyouthink
Oh, I see, it's a mileage saving choice.
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It sounds like Red Bull throwing their toys to me.

I could see reasoning for not running practise if they want to save mileage, although going into a race with an engine that hasn't even spent half an hour on the track seems like a recipe for something to randomly go wrong.

But by skipping qualifying, he's ensuring that the penalty carries over to Brazil, where he'll presumably start from the pit lane as well. Admittedly, bar a small miracle Williams are never going to catch them in the constructors, but this sort of fannying around seems more like sour grapes than anything.
 
The only issue with that is, if Vettel doesnt set any lap times in practices, and he sits out of qualifying, then he obviously won't be within 107% (although I'm sure Red Bull would plead their case to the FIA to let Vettel race) and have a chance of not being in the race on Sunday, making the entire weekend a waste of time for that half of RBR.
 
Here are the Sky Sports' Classic Races for this week;

Wednesday - 1987
Thursday - 2007
Friday - 1981
Saturday - None
Sunday - None
 
GTPorsche
The only issue with that is, if Vettel doesnt set any lap times in practices, and he sits out of qualifying, then he obviously won't be within 107% (although I'm sure Red Bull would plead their case to the FIA to let Vettel race) and have a chance of not being in the race on Sunday, making the entire weekend a waste of time for that half of RBR.
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If that was to even happen they they would obviously take part in qualifying anyway even if it was only 1 lap, as the mileage on the engine for the weekend would be less then expected.
 
I hope that Vettel (and Alonso? I recall hearing he might not qualify) do take part in qualifying just for the fans at the track, since they're already going to be down four cars. When you're actually at a race meet, a lack of competitors is quite a lot more noticeable than on TV.
 
If it does happen then it is shocking behaviour in my view, no respect paid to the American fans at all. As @Imari says, it is toy throwing at best and won't change anything regarding the engine rules.
 
Imari
It sounds like Red Bull throwing their toys to me.

I could see reasoning for not running practise if they want to save mileage, although going into a race with an engine that hasn't even spent half an hour on the track seems like a recipe for something to randomly go wrong.

But by skipping qualifying, he's ensuring that the penalty carries over to Brazil, where he'll presumably start from the pit lane as well. Admittedly, bar a small miracle Williams are never going to catch them in the constructors, but this sort of fannying around seems more like sour grapes than anything.
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If that's the case then they're throwing them at Renault just as much, I think. They do have a point, Honda continue to develop their engine for next year while being able to gather data from cars running locked-down engines this year. That isn't fair in my view although I'm no great fan of IRBR.

Tactically juggling the 10-place penalty for using an extra engine should be observed by the stewards through the 107% rule - this is case where it should be applied I think.
 
Imari
It sounds like Red Bull throwing their toys to me.

I could see reasoning for not running practise if they want to save mileage, although going into a race with an engine that hasn't even spent half an hour on the track seems like a recipe for something to randomly go wrong.

But by skipping qualifying, he's ensuring that the penalty carries over to Brazil, where he'll presumably start from the pit lane as well. Admittedly, bar a small miracle Williams are never going to catch them in the constructors, but this sort of fannying around seems more like sour grapes than anything.
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My understanding is that they are going to change the whole engine to avoid the carry-over. If you change one component, you get ten places. If you change a second component, you get another five places. If any of these penalties relegates you past last place, you make up the difference at the next race. The whole system is structured as a deterrent designed to stop teams from changing everything all at once and getting a small penalty. But if you change all six components at once, you start from the pit lane, and there is no penalty. It's there for drivers who have used up their quota for several components, and would be looking at massive grid penalties which would not be fair.
 
prisonermonkeys
But if you change all six components at once, you start from the pit lane, and there is no penalty. It's there for drivers who have used up their quota for several components, and would be looking at massive grid penalties which would not be fair.
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But this is a complete-PU outside the initial allocation, or so I understood? That in itself carries a penalty. EDIT: Maybe not in itself but as a total... I need to do some adding-up :D
 
TenEightyOne
But this is a complete-PU outside the initial allocation, or so I understood? That in itself carries a penalty. EDIT: Maybe not in itself but as a total... I need to do some adding-up :D
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Yes, it's a completely new power unit - all six components are brand-new. Even if some of his original allocation still had some life left in them, he was already looking at a massive grid penalty and likely a second one at Abu Dhabi. Starting from pit lane is essentially a massive penalty taken now to prevent compound penalties unfairly being applied later. You only do it if you're desperate.
 
Given that he has to do it (and Horner's making sure everybody knows) then will they try to defer the penalty to Brazil as suggested? And would they try to do it by simply failing to qualify in Austin?
 
prisonermonkeys
No, you take the penalty in the race you change the engine. Vettel isn't qualifying in Austin to dodge the penalty - he isn't qualifying because the team know it will be pointless; he will start from pit lane regardless of whether he qualifies first or eighteenth. And this way, he gets three sets of mint-condition soft tyres.
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So, as I said before, isn't this a case where the 107% rule should apply? There's no force majeure here after all, it would be an elective decision by IRBR.
 
prisonermonkeys
My understanding is that they are going to change the whole engine to avoid the carry-over. If you change one component, you get ten places. If you change a second component, you get another five places. If any of these penalties relegates you past last place, you make up the difference at the next race. The whole system is structured as a deterrent designed to stop teams from changing everything all at once and getting a small penalty. But if you change all six components at once, you start from the pit lane, and there is no penalty. It's there for drivers who have used up their quota for several components, and would be looking at massive grid penalties which would not be fair.
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Hmm, that's kind of cool and quite a good idea then. I was wondering why they'd bother when they were likely to just get another 5 places for the next component to pop. I didn't know about that rule for changing the entire thing.

It seems a lot less spiteful and more tactical this way. Although the threat of no practise running still seems odd, unless they actually have no running engines left. I wouldn't run the new engine in practise, and I'd probably skip P3 to take plenty of time to change the new one over (and maybe use Q1 to bed it in or something), but for P1 and P2 they might as well take one of their old engines and run it into the ground.
 
Imari
It seems a lot less spiteful and more tactical this way. Although the threat of no practise running still seems odd, unless they actually have no running engines left. I wouldn't run the new engine in practise, and I'd probably skip P3 to take plenty of time to change the new one over (and maybe use Q1 to bed it in or something), but for P1 and P2 they might as well take one of their old engines and run it into the ground.
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I think the spite is in the way IRBR are being quite public about how unhappy they are with the engine overall.

The penalty is actually on the qualifying result; if you don't qualify (by not setting a time within 107%) there can no penalty applied, it carries over to the next race. That was how I understood the literal application of the penalty rules.
 
TenEightyOne
I think the spite is in the way IRBR are being quite public about how unhappy they are with the engine overall.
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I find that normal. They've been moaning like little girls all season. Nothing new there.

The penalty is actually on the qualifying result; if you don't qualify (by not setting a time within 107%) there can no penalty applied, it carries over to the next race. That was how I understood the literal application of the penalty rules.
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You could be right. Either way, if they have to throw out one hot lap I imagine that they will. It's not like they're not going to make the 107%. I hope the FIA make them do the one lap at least.

Still, it would be amusing if they somehow stuffed up their interpretation of the rules and double penalised themselves. Not because I particularly dislike Red Bull, but because it would be good drama and entertainment. Can you imagine the rage if they skipped qualifying only to find that they still have the penalty waiting for them at Brazil? Imagine the uncomfortable interviews! Vettel would probably nerd rage on TV, because it's not like he has to keep the team buttered up any more.

I vote for them stuffing it up just so that we can see Angwy Vettel. :)
 
prisonermonkeys
No, you take the penalty in the race you change the engine. Vettel isn't qualifying in Austin to dodge the penalty - he isn't qualifying because the team know it will be pointless; he will start from pit lane regardless of whether he qualifies first or eighteenth. And this way, he gets three sets of mint-condition soft tyres.
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This all makes sense.

What doesn't is potentially not running in the three Free Practice sessions. I know they have data from previous years and the simulations they run are sophisticated enough to have an ideal set-up before they even get to the circuit, but you'd imagine that they'd want to at least check the car at race pace at some point. Especially with a totally fresh power unit installed (unless they're allowed to do a straight line test before hand in these situations?)

I can't see that Vettel won't run at all before the race. He'll be out at some point.
 

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