2015 F1 Mechanics/Aero; Design predictions to win the WCC/WDC. READ FIRST POST

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by LMSCorvetteGT2, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    So I will fill this with a long rant later about the conclusion of 2014 and what I expect from 2015 along with some items I've found about possible 2015 changes that could shake up the foundation that was laid in 2014...

    @MHPALA if you don't mind showing what you found now that I actually created the thread like you and others @GTPorsche had wanted. So yeah, let's have another great season of tech talk and changes in the teams as well.



    ENGINE RULES CHANGE 2015

    OLD RULES BEFORE LOBBY
    Other than any parts solely associated with power unit installation in different types of car (which have no performance benefit and which may be changed from time to time during the homologation period with the consent of the FIA), any such power unit is one which is identical in every respect to either:
    a) A power unit delivered to the FIA no later than 28 February 2014.
    b) A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014 which has been modified in accordance with the Annual F1 Power Unit Homologation table […]
    c) A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after that date, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of power units for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated power units. […]
    2015 FIA F1 Sporting Regulations, June 29th draft, Appendix 4, Article 1 (read the current rules in full – PDF link)

    NEW RULES/TOKEN CHART

    These are the items that can be changed this year during the course of the year but at the cost a certain amount of tokens, with each manufacture only being allowed (aside from Honda) 32 tokens. Honda at first were not going to be allowed any tokens and run under the same method of last years homologation after Feb 28th. however that changed. Now Honda are allowed tokens but in a different matter, the amount of Tokens Honda can have for the course of he season will be restricted to how many tokens remaining do the other manufactures have. After which it will be averaged and rounded down to the nearest whole number.

    So if Mercedes has 5 tokens, and Renault as 8 tokens and Ferrari has a 11 tokens, then the average between the three is 8 exactly and that would be the number of Tokens Honda can run.

    Token Chart


    Too lazy to make the chart based on the info provided myself, so I'll give a link to the one already made on F1fanatic that can be used to follow the changes through the year.
    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/01/20/making-sense-f1s-engine-rules-2015/


    TEAM RADIO RULES

    Under FIA technical directive TD/041 messages concerning the following are not permitted (either by radio or pit board)

    - Driving lines on the circuit.
    - Contact with kerbs.
    - Car set up parameters for specific corners.
    - Comparative or absolute sector time detail of another driver.
    - Speeds in corners compared to another driver.
    - Gear selection compared with another driver.
    - Gear selection in general.
    - Braking points.
    - Rate of braking compared to another driver.
    - Rate of braking or application of brakes in general.
    - Car stability under braking.
    - Throttle application compared to another driver.
    - Throttle application in general.
    - Use of DRS compared with another driver.
    - Use of any overtake button.
    - Driving technique in general.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
  2. MHPALA

    MHPALA

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    This was posted on Ice Man's Facebook. I see a W05ish bottom wishbone. RB10ish nose tip. The end plates of the front wing look very RB10ish. The front wing inner elements look the same as F14T (of course will be developed more as the season progresses). Last, its a pull rod front suspension

    [​IMG]
    For comparison (latest F14 FW revision from testing @ Yas Marina):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2014
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  3. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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  4. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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  5. DK

    DK Premium

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    Well, I guess I can eliminate two drivers from my list of possible drivers to bet on this year.
     
  6. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Honda didn't build their engine overnight. They deliberately waited until 2015 to have more time in development, and to work with a team that had experience of the new power units.

    And you can bet that if Honda feel that they are at a major disadvantage because of this loophole, then they will lobby for an exemption. The FIA made mistakes bringing the engine formula in, particularly in their failure to regulate costs. They won't want to repeat that. Especially if other manufacturers want to join the sport - being forced to observe an engine freeze while their rivals are free to develop their own power units would be a huge deterrent to entry.

    Ferrari and Renault might have won a major victory here, but if they force Honda to observe the engine freeze, then they're just going to do damage to the sport's credibility. There are already reports that the Strategy Working Group rejected a plan that would have cut costs by £20 million with no discernible changes in performance. If they keep looking out for their own interests like that, they'll certainty kill the sport.
     
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  7. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    why is this bad? If anything honda are still the ones to bet on since unlike a few months their engine has been working progress for two years. Look at what Renault had this year, it may take more than February to build a better unit hence the loop hole attempt they and Ferrari will try. It is possible Honda could screw up like the other two but they had a winning design to be influenced by.
     
  8. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Also, it's unlikely that Honda will suffer any more than they otherwise would have. In order to improve the power unit, they first of all need data. Then that needs to be turned into information, and solutions developed from it. Remember when it became apparent that Renault were in trouble? They estimated that there would be no fixes until the British Grand Prix. Honda will be faced with the same conundrum.
     
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  9. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    Yes it isn't the worst news in the world for Honda, but I bet they're not happy about this.
     
  10. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

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    Does anyone think that Mercedes are going to be as dominant this season as they were last? Or have the rest got enough info and data from last season to develop their cars to the pace needed to challenge them?
     
  11. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    It was rumored that the Mercedes engine would be 1 second faster compared to last year's, so I'm guessing they'll be parked on top once again.
     
  12. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    It will still come down to aerodynamics. The Red Bull RB10 arguably had a better aero package than the W05 Hybrid, and Williams were consistently closer to Mercedes than anyone expected them to be.
     
  13. DK

    DK Premium

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    When I saw that headline, the first thought that popped into my head was about the competitiveness of the Honda PU and how it could be held back because it can't be upgraded. Of course, that would eliminate the risk of any upgrades to the PU causing problems.
     
  14. 01Michael

    01Michael

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    A rumor I've read and heard is that the Honda is underpowered, but then again its not homologated for another two months. Renault found ~92bhp in software and Total fuel upgrades over 2014 so all is not lost. Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes wont be able to find many tenths by upgrading the engine so Honda shouldn't be over worried about being ostracized.

    ...but they should be worried about the 2015 Mercedes engine. I've seen reports that Bosch have co-developed a direct fuel injection to raise the working pressure from 240 to 500 bar. Mercedes also showed off the PU106A engine innards when it won the Dewar engineering award - there's not many reasons why they'd do that.

    Not only was Lewis relentless but also the most fuel efficient driver on the grid (helped by the car of course) - and looking back at all the misfortunes its hard to think Nico is going to get a better chance in 2015.
     
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  15. MHPALA

    MHPALA

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  16. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    Yes but the point I'm getting at is they had unrestricted development unlike the other three to prepare for a formula that is already in action. Though they don't have the pools of ontrack test data they do have the ability to learn from the past year and see what major problems came up and at what tracks. Also they are providing a singular service to a team and thus can have a main focus and design input with McLaren. If they fail, which they may, then they wasted two years and only have themselves to blame. I don't think they should get equal time to develop. The other three didn't and are more or less running the main structure of 2014 with some retrofitted hardware and perhaps software.
     
  17. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    That was six months ago. And was based on nothing except McLaren's poor form at the time.
     
  18. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    I can't remember who said it on Twitter, however someone raised a point about Honda going through the first season rules in effect regarding their engine. So will they also be allowed a 5th engine unit this year as well?...
     
  19. catamount39

    catamount39

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    So I found something that's quite interesting...the FIA/F1 are thinking of getting F1 cars back up to 1000hp by 2017. :eek:


    "...an increase to the fuel flow rate, higher revs, minor design tweaks such as to crank firing, plus increasing the maximum fuel allowance beyond 100kg, would be enough for the current engines to hit the 1000hp target."

    http://www.racer.com/f1/item/112242-f1-keen-to-have-1000hp-engines
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  20. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    Are the going to bring back massive rear tires as well?
     
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  21. catamount39

    catamount39

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    I believe those are in the same talks, as the article mentions bigger wheels among other things such as more aggressive looking cars, and more downforce. Then again bigger wheels may be refering to Pirelli's 18 inch wheels...

    Course with 1000hp those massive rear tires might be a necessity. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  22. 01Michael

    01Michael

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    It was after the MP4-29/1X1 test which was a few weeks ago. Peter Windsor also mentioned it in a TRE video not so long ago.

    If F1's going to 1000bhp the torque will have to decrease a little, the precision required on the throttle pedal will be so high that the difference between a good and bad exit will be just luck haha!
     
  23. DK

    DK Premium

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    I wonder, could the MP4-29/1X1's poor reliability have anything to do with the fact that it wasn't as well-prepared as its Mercedes-powered counterpart? It may have been a bit of a rushed job to fit the Honda PU into it.
     
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  24. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    It's been unreliable? The engines last year weren't reliable in pre-season testing but they turned out to not be a major issue for most during the season.
     
  25. niky

    niky Moderator

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    I think this may be the most worrying thing for Mercedes. Red Bull had arguably the worst engine on the grid, and yet Ricciardo was almost always there.

    With more power under his right foot, he could prove a headache for the Mercs.

    -

    Oh, and Williams... I'm not getting my hopes up on them keeping up in the development race, but if they do... oy.
     
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  26. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    The bigger wheels is refering to the 18 inch, the talks of wider tires as GTPorsche is getting was discussed back when ground effects and smaller front and rear wing were on the table to join this engine package. However, those all were shot down and pushed back to maybe join the formula at a later time like the now 18 inch wheels. However, one of these things has been tested the others have not. Just saying. The V10 and even V8s though ran pretty high hp numbers and when these current cars with complete power run, they are also high numbers as well. However, they still run these thinner tires.

    So they may increase the size but from recent years I don't see it happening (though it should) and realistically it should have happened some time ago with all this talk of limiting the aero grip and trying to balance it with more mechanical grip. A tire width increase would help that mechanical grip side.

    Well to be honest, when he was there is was due to issues, but never the less I see your point. Also, Renault by mid season wasn't nearly as bad and I wanna say by China they were getting better (total with their coveted fuel mixes and better mapping). Yet we must remember that RBR are the factory team of renault and clear priority when it comes to fixing these issues first and letting it run down to the rest of the Renault driven teams. Also Ricciardo doesn't think this upcoming season will be as good as good as last season, we'll see.

    Here is this as well
    http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/1...ult-for-renault-and-ferrari-to-catch-mercedes
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  27. rono_thomas

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    Excuse my ignorance but does larger wheel sizes mean slower straight line speeds of F1 cars or is the difference not really going to be noticeable?
     
  28. LMSCorvetteGT2

    LMSCorvetteGT2

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    It depends on car set up I'd say. If the aero package the car uses is able to negate the fact that the wider tires are creating more drag (though most likely in the rear and probably making the fronts smaller than now)...sure it could slow the straight line speed down. However this would really only be a worry at places like Monza or China and Spa, but no it doesn't mean an automatic slower straight line speed at all. Also if the speed is slowed down it wouldn't be by much I'd say maybe a few kph here or there.

    edit:

    Here are some important dates to look forward to for tech talk on 2015 f1 season

    Jan. 29 the launch of the McLaren Honda (MP-30)


    Jan. 30 the launch of the Ferrari (made by Seb, for Seb, and run by Seb*)
    http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/188611.html


    *it's a joke if you didn't see the satire article, look up "no one left at Ferrari but Vettel"
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
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  29. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Actually, they started around the weekend of the Japanese Grand Prix. Everyone was expecting McLaren to announce Alonso as a driver, but it never happened. With no information, they went looking for an explanation, and came up with the theory that Alonso hadn't signed because he wasn't confident in the Honda engine.

    Potentially, but everyone had teething problems last year.

    Ironically, the last time someone rushed to fit a new engine into a chassis, it went like the clappers. And for the double shot of irony, the last time it happened, it was a Mercedes engine replacing a Honda.
     
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  30. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    Apparently Force India unveil is on the 21st.
     
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