2016 Formula 1 Gran Premio Heineken d'ItaliaFormula 1

[J_Starscream]

Apparently Nico sang on the podium, glad I missed that .

Lewis saying he got wheel spin on the start and says it wasn't his fault, which is weird considering how you get wheel spin is well..... driver error.

He did mention that it was his fault. He said over radio "don't worry about the start guys, I messed up".

 

[Vert4848]

Motogp race is good.

I don't get the channel MotoGP is on.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Apparently Nico sang on the podium, glad I missed that .

Lewis saying he got wheel spin on the start and says it wasn't his fault, which is weird considering how you get wheel spin is well..... driver error.

Yeah seven nation army, and more so hummed not sang, but the crowd got into it and joined him so good job.

I don't get the channel MotoGP is on.

Neither do I

 

[Peter.]

Had a dream this race was starting wet, which have me a bit of excitement upon waking up. The moment I saw it was dry, my only hope was to see Lewis and Nico scrap it out all race, then Lewis did a Webber and I knew it was over.

3 more years of this track?

 

[Samus]

Had a dream this race was starting wet, which have me a bit of excitement upon waking up. The moment I saw it was dry, my only hope was to see Lewis and Nico scrap it out all race, then Lewis did a Webber and I knew it was over.

3 more years of this track?

Well not exactly, they're planning to change it next year remember. Get rid of the first chicane and changing Curve Grande. Doubt it'll make much difference to racing though, if anything it'll be worse with one less big stop.

 

[Akmuq]

Well not exactly, they're planning to change it next year remember. Get rid of the first chicane and changing Curve Grande. Doubt it'll make much difference to racing though, if anything it'll be worse with one less big stop.

If we're lucky it may need more downforce.


I'd like to think that this race is a perfect demonstration as to why people don't want the old Hockenheim.

 

[sems4arsenal]

He did mention that it was his fault. He said over radio "don't worry about the start guys, I messed up".

Which makes his interview even more baffling but fair enough, I'm still surprised by the amount of bad launches I see, I know they're only human but they practice this millions of time, then again what do I know

 

[J_Starscream]

Which makes his interview even more baffling but fair enough, I'm still surprised by the amount of bad launches I see, I know they're only human but they practice this millions of time, then again what do I know

I wasn't paying attention to the interviews except the podium ones. But yeah, Lewis blamed himself on the radio.

 

[mustafur]

It wasn't that bad, Quali proved that RBR were on par with Williams already super non effective down force cars. I mean really cars that people probably expected to fight Ferrari didn't show up and that's probably due in part with the Renault power boost earlier in the season and the low downforce extremes RBR went to. Also through the weekend DR and MV had better sector times than Williams.

From what you could see the Redbull was fast though Ascari and the Lesmos, but losing time everywhere else, in the 2nd stint Ricciardo tried to pass Bottas he could get really close after Ascari, but then get to the point where the DRS wasn't really working well after the parabolica, the time Ricciardo went for the move was literally the closest he got because he did the parabollica faster then when he was on the softs, and got within 4 tenths instead of 7 which gave him atleast a shot if he dared.

The Redbull had a super low rear wing but the front wing still had pretty big angles, and the corner speed showed it, the car was clearly on a very oversteery setup.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

From what you could see the Redbull was fast though Ascari and the Lesmos,

So literally the only actual turns on the track (minus the Parabolica). We already knew Red Bull was good in the twisty bits on all tracks.

 

[mustafur]

So literally the only actual turns on the track (minus the Parabolica). We already knew Red Bull was good in the twisty bits on all tracks.

Yes, but you can change that with aero config, they could of gone with less front wing for better top speed, but they went with a setup that had high front down force and virtually no rear wing which suggests they are making rear down-force elsewhere on the car to be able to make the car still controllable.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

From what you could see the Redbull was fast though Ascari and the Lesmos, but losing time everywhere else, in the 2nd stint Ricciardo tried to pass Bottas he could get really close after Ascari, but then get to the point where the DRS wasn't really working well after the parabolica, the time Ricciardo went for the move was literally the closest he got because he did the parabollica faster then when he was on the softs, and got within 4 tenths instead of 7 which gave him atleast a shot if he dared.

The Redbull had a super low rear wing but the front wing still had pretty big angles, and the corner speed showed it, the car was clearly on a very oversteery setup.

The point is the car carried it's speed rather than scrubbing it due to the package RBR brought, it wasn't all that impressive that he could keep up with the Williams, because all weekend long they kept up with the Williams even in quali trim, where you'd expect the Williams to really show how much greater it was. But all that was shown was a thousandth of a difference in one lap pace. Over all stint pace was never there on the Williams. Also to compound the situation further, I believe DR was on much newer tires than Bottas.

I don't see how it was oversteery, if that was the case it wouldn't have had such bad understeer into the parabolica all weekend. The car had front end grip and lacked the rear grip it's known for.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Yes, but you can change that with aero config, they could of gone with less front wing for better top speed, but they went with a setup that had high front down force and virtually no rear wing which suggests they are making rear down-force elsewhere on the car to be able to make the car still controllable.

Mechanical grip and big balls

 

[mustafur]

The point is the car carried it's speed rather than scrubbing it due to the package RBR brought, it wasn't all that impressive that he could keep up with the Williams, because all weekend long they kept up with the Williams even in quali trim, where you'd expect the Williams to really show how much greater it was. But all that was shown was a thousandth of a difference in one lap pace. Over all stint pace was never there on the Williams. Also to compound the situation further, I believe DR was on much newer tires than Bottas.

I don't see how it was oversteery, if that was the case it wouldn't have had such bad understeer into the parabolica all weekend. The car had front end grip and lacked the rear grip it's known for.

It was twitchy on the parrabollica especially in the race, most just go wide there for the time gain, low rear wing plus high front equals oversteer no matter which way you point it.

The only real places to pass are at braking zones which requires enough top speed on your rival to get close enough when this happens or enough overlap, in the 2nd stint the dirty air plus same tyres that were only slightly newer wasn't enough, a change to a softer compound that are 5 laps newer allowed him to get a bit closer to go for the pass.

The Redbull had the better race pace, but the point was the Williams was better at the key areas of where you pass, the Williams was fast in the first sector and the last.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It was twitchy on the parrabollica especially in the race, most just go wide there for the time gain, low rear wing plus high front equals oversteer no matter which way you point it.

If they had that much front end grip they wouldn't have had understeer into parabolica usually if the car goes wide in that area it's driver fault and less to do with the car. There is a reason teams kept louvers on their rear wing and just making the lower plane flat.

The only real places to pass are at braking zones which requires enough top speed on your rival to get close enough when this happens or enough overlap, in the 2nd stint the dirty air plus same tyres that were only slightly newer wasn't enough, a change to a softer compound that are 5 laps newer allowed him to get a bit closer to go for the pass.

Basically just said the newer tires were a benefit, doesn't change that the RBR was quick since Friday.

The Redbull had the better race pace, but the point was the Williams was better at the key areas of where you pass, the Williams was fast in the first sector and the last.

No, it wasn't so much better that it's hard to believe the RBR could get it done, in reality as I've said they were quite close. No, it may have been fast but in relation to the RBR of DR, he was only .05 off the best first sector time of Sunday set by Bottas. And was faster than Bottas by some margin in the second and third sectors. This is also shown in quali trim as well from Saturday.

Speed trap recordings show Bottas third, and guess who was fourth by 1.2kph...Ricciardo. Max speeds show Bottas had 2kph over Ricciardo. All in all there isn't this great disparity and when the numbers and cars are taken into account it's easy to see that the RBR had come a long way, is competent on all types of tracks and Williams weren't prepared for that.

 

[Whodoyouthink]

C'mon, it wasn't a drop dead terrible race! Sure, out of all the premier league series racing this weekend, not the best of them, but I still enjoyed it.

I think the cars have just finally, barely reached an acceptable level of loud that we were missing since the start of this V6T era.

Also we need more Mario Andretti commentating (on NBCSN), I miss that from I think 2013-2014(?).

Pleasant surprise. Used to hearing a front runner get it, as it is only logical. But hearing Nando bang out the fastest lap does make you wonder, what does it take for them to get closer to maintaining that as a consistent race pace?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

C'mon, it wasn't a drop dead terrible race! Sure, out of all the premier league series racing this weekend, not the best of them, but I still enjoyed it.

I think the cars have just finally, barely reached an acceptable level of loud that we were missing since the start of this V6T era.

Also we need more Mario Andretti commentating (on NBCSN), I miss that from I think 2013-2014(?).

Pleasant surprise. Used to hearing a front runner get it, as it is only logical. But hearing Nando bang out the fastest lap does make you wonder, what does it take for them to get closer to maintaining that as a consistent race pace?

No tokens...thus next years regs basically.

Oh look at that second fastest lap of the race was the struggled RBR driven by Ricciardo.

 

[mustafur]

If they had that much front end grip they wouldn't have had understeer into parabolica usually if the car goes wide in that area it's driver fault and less to do with the car. There is a reason teams kept louvers on their rear wing and just making the lower plane flat.



Basically just said the newer tires were a benefit, doesn't change that the RBR was quick since Friday.



No, it wasn't so much better that it's hard to believe the RBR could get it done, in reality as I've said they were quite close. No, it may have been fast but in relation to the RBR of DR, he was only .05 off the best first sector time of Sunday set by Bottas. And was faster than Bottas by some margin in the second and third sectors. This is also shown in quali trim as well from Saturday.

Speed trap recordings show Bottas third, and guess who was fourth by 1.2kph...Ricciardo. Max speeds show Bottas had 2kph over Ricciardo. All in all there isn't this great disparity and when the numbers and cars are taken into account it's easy to see that the RBR had come a long way, is competent on all types of tracks and Williams weren't prepared for that.

What day was this speed trap, DRS speed traps you can't exactly count, considering Ricciardo had the top speed in 2014 because he had a double slip stream, yet the Renault was undoubtedly the worst engine that year.

Im not looking at stats, im looking at how the race unfolded, do you have stats on how much dirty air can effect cornering, given that parrabollica is a corner which is heavily effected by dirty air and it's crucial to get a good run on the person ahead this is a key issue for getting past.

When you have an oversteery car on a high speed corner, you have to be really sensitive to avoid twitching to scrub off speed this is why it may give the illusion of understeer but there is no way in hell a car with barely any rear wing is going to understeer before it oversteers.

The louvers are for dispensing drag caught by the Top Wing if the angle is too much then louvers are required to remove the drag effect, the Redbulls wing was soo flat it didn't need it.

C'mon, it wasn't a drop dead terrible race! Sure, out of all the premier league series racing this weekend, not the best of them, but I still enjoyed it.

I think the cars have just finally, barely reached an acceptable level of loud that we were missing since the start of this V6T era.

Also we need more Mario Andretti commentating (on NBCSN), I miss that from I think 2013-2014(?).

Pleasant surprise. Used to hearing a front runner get it, as it is only logical. But hearing Nando bang out the fastest lap does make you wonder, what does it take for them to get closer to maintaining that as a consistent race pace?

Pit 3 laps from the end and put on new tyres can help.

 

[Samus]

So that is win number 45 of 52 races. If they manage to win in Singapore, their weakest track, I think we could easily see them not losing any more races and ending the three seasons since 2014 winning 52 of 59 races. Mind boggling domination.

 

[Touring Mars]

Mind boggling domination.

And it's not getting dull at all!

I noticed that spectators at Monza are no longer allowed in to the place where I watched the race 5 years ago... infield at the exit of Ascari, just beyond the service road through to the paddock. Shame because it was a brilliant spot... even though we arrived at 8.30 am, all the best standing spots were gone around the track, with most of the most obvious places being held overnight by large groups of fans. But we stumbled upon this area at Ascari that was completely empty and got a great spot for the race, even though the race was not exactly a classic - a bit like this year's race. Monza is such a wonderful place and the GP is always something special, but it is sad when the race disappoints...

 

[BrainsBush]

Because this Monza race was so exciting besides the great start and overtaking by Max at Perez

Does Max watched/learned from the master himself?

 

[dingodile_r89]

Had a dream this race was starting wet, which have me a bit of excitement upon waking up.

Had a wet dream, eh?

Too bad the race was disappointing barring Ricciardo's superb divebomb on Bottas...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What day was this speed trap, DRS speed traps you can't exactly count, considering Ricciardo had the top speed in 2014 because he had a double slip stream, yet the Renault was undoubtedly the worst engine that year.

Im not looking at stats, im looking at how the race unfolded, do you have stats on how much dirty air can effect cornering, given that parrabollica is a corner which is heavily effected by dirty air and it's crucial to get a good run on the person ahead this is a key issue for getting past.

When you have an oversteery car on a high speed corner, you have to be really sensitive to avoid twitching to scrub off speed this is why it may give the illusion of understeer but there is no way in hell a car with barely any rear wing is going to understeer before it oversteers.

The louvers are for dispensing drag caught by the Top Wing if the angle is too much then louvers are required to remove the drag effect, the Redbulls wing was soo flat it didn't need it.

I have the FIA official stats, I don't need stats on dirty air and so on because everyone is dealing with similar wakes coming of the rears of the car based on the dimensions everyone has to follow being the same. Also with such low downforce dirty turbulent air coming off the cars isn't as big an issue as you put it. At this point your splitting hairs after I've given evidence to show the RBR and Williams weren't worlds apart to where a single pass deserve DR the driver of the day. To me most people who see him as such rather not give more to the Mercedes drivers then they're already getting on a gp to gp basis.

Also a car with massive front end grip will understeer tons when it lacks rear end downforce. Also the wings have louvers and slots in plenty of areas away from the top. At this point you clearly see it one way, I don't based on the data post gp weekend. If you want to split hairs on 2016 aero I have a thread for that, until next GP have a great week 👍

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think you're getting carried away there, the race was over between the Mercedes as soon as Hamilton made his mistake and fell so far back. He wasn't going to get the lead back from there no matter what he did, so it was pretty easy for Rosberg to stroll away from the slower Ferrari's with Lewis having to fight through. It's a totally different situation to last year where Hamilton just straight up didn't have an answer.

Then why even bother having races? Why not just award the title based on career statistics?

 

[Losco]

Nice Race. It is beautiful to see Sebastian on the podium at Monza. Lewis's start made Ferrari fans stay on the top of their seats for a while, but Ferraris Clearly cant keep the pace.

 

[Furinkazen]

Then why even bother having races? Why not just award the title based on career statistics?

@Samus just said Hamilton messed his own race (which he did) and couldn't get to Nico because Nico just drove off into the sunset whilst Hamilton had to repass everyone.

So yet again, what are you on about?

 

[mustafur]

Also a car with massive front end grip will understeer tons when it lacks rear end downforce. Also the wings have louvers and slots in plenty of areas away from the top. At this point you clearly see it one way, I don't based on the data post gp weekend. If you want to split hairs on 2016 aero I have a thread for that, until next GP have a great week 👍

Wut??

Physics must be opposite for you then.

 

[JonoStan96]

I have the FIA official stats, I don't need stats on dirty air and so on because everyone is dealing with similar wakes coming of the rears of the car based on the dimensions everyone has to follow being the same. Also with such low downforce dirty turbulent air coming off the cars isn't as big an issue as you put it. At this point your splitting hairs after I've given evidence to show the RBR and Williams weren't worlds apart to where a single pass deserve DR the driver of the day. To me most people who see him as such rather not give more to the Mercedes drivers then they're already getting on a gp to gp basis.

Also a car with massive front end grip will understeer tons when it lacks rear end downforce. Also the wings have louvers and slots in plenty of areas away from the top. At this point you clearly see it one way, I don't based on the data post gp weekend. If you want to split hairs on 2016 aero I have a thread for that, until next GP have a great week 👍

How the hell does a car with lots of front downforce and almost no rear downforce understeer?!?
It begs an explanation, that defies all logic.

 

[CarreraGT]

I have the FIA official stats, I don't need stats on dirty air and so on because everyone is dealing with similar wakes coming of the rears of the car based on the dimensions everyone has to follow being the same. Also with such low downforce dirty turbulent air coming off the cars isn't as big an issue as you put it. At this point your splitting hairs after I've given evidence to show the RBR and Williams weren't worlds apart to where a single pass deserve DR the driver of the day. To me most people who see him as such rather not give more to the Mercedes drivers then they're already getting on a gp to gp basis.

Also a car with massive front end grip will understeer tons when it lacks rear end downforce. Also the wings have louvers and slots in plenty of areas away from the top. At this point you clearly see it one way, I don't based on the data post gp weekend. If you want to split hairs on 2016 aero I have a thread for that, until next GP have a great week 👍

I'm confused, are you suggesting that Ricciardo does or does not deserve driver of the day?

And I too am totally baffled by your suggestion that massive front end grip and a lack of read downforce creates excessive understeer. Logic would suggest the complete opposite...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm confused, are you suggesting that Ricciardo does or does not deserve driver of the day?

And I too am totally baffled by your suggestion that massive front end grip and a lack of read downforce creates excessive understeer. Logic would suggest the complete opposite...

Saying he doesn't any more than those ahead of him, and especially not due to suggestions that he had a car at some big disadvantage to the Williams he in the end beat.

For the the parabolica which is what I was talking about it does. Considering the side grip in low and mid speed corners and front end bite, however the lack of rear wing in a high speed corner didn't allow them to have the exit speed of others. My point was to illustrate that red bull brought probably one of their most low down force packages ever to Monza, yet seemed to keep relatively the same stuff in other areas. Such as Diffuser (biggest maker of downforce) and the front vanes and front wing, with the rear wing being very simplistic. Yes front downforce of a high extentd creates oversteer and vice versa, my point was that perhaps that lack of rear wing and setup caused the car to step out as often as it did in Parabolica indicating that it wasn't as oveersteer driven as suggested.