2016 Formula 1 Großer Preis von Deutschland

I think both layouts were/are crap. The old layout was interesting on premise, but because this is F1 it made no difference in the quality of the races. The revised layout looks a bit 'My First Track' than most circuits, there's no flow until the arena which already existed. I probably could have designed a better track when they rebuilt, and I was eight.
I'm going to go ahead and say no, no you couldn't have designed a better track. Given the constraints (space available, budget, environment issues with the trees), they did pretty much the best they could. There's no way in hell that some smart ass, 8 year old, Internet "expert" would have done a better job.

The old circuit had no flow. You could take a nap between chicanes. The new circuit has great flow, challenging corners, and produces great racing across a variety of series.
 
Given the freedom of time, money and just having a pen and paper we probably could do a better job but as I say, Tilke was severely limited on all factors. I'm not keen on what he did deliver either but in comparison to other circuits he does have excuses.
 
And the 2016 cars probably produce more mechanical grip than the 1996 cars did aero grip, meaning that they can literally drive around the problem.

Once upon a time, corners like Eau Rouge were a challenge because you had to balance the throttle to carry as much speed through the corner as possible whilst still retaining control. These days, it's just flat out and has been for years.
Alright take all the Wings off the 2016 car and see what happens then.
 
Just for pedantry's sake that 1996 Tyrrell didn't use 'thin rear tyres' in practice, it used four front tyres to reduce drag.

And I'll chime in with the unpopular opinion: Old Hockenheimring was great. I loved the thunderous parade down the straights and the slipstreaming. Stadium section was dull because there's no overtaking opportunities but it did make car setup a challenge like no other track on the calendar.

I accept all the criticisms people have about Old Hockenheimring but I still love it.
 
The old track definitely would have been better had it been wider. That was touted as a possible upgrade before the final plan.
 
Also liked This one:

You can really see how difficult it was to drive in the Stadium Section with no downforce what so ever.

@daan you sure, I raise you a pass on the outside on the same corner.
 
You couldn't have had a battle like [Montoya and Räikkönnen] on the old track.

No, you couldn't have had a battle like that. That is correct. But the way that people bang on about how terrible the old track was, you'd swear it was impossible to have any kind of battle on the old track and that the races were the most boring races this side of Monaco.

But by the by, it's a bit unfair using two of the best attacking drivers in Montoya and Räikkönnen to prove your point. :P
 
The new layout is amusing to watch DTM cars crash into each and dive bomb but I prefer this.



Me too.

And as I acknowledged, yes the old track was a power circuit most suitable for the best engine but sometimes the best battle isn't at the front.

Honda vs Honda



And the only Panis got past was by not making the corner.

You couldn't have had a battle like this on the old track.



Also liked This one:

You can really see how difficult it was to drive in the Stadium Section with no downforce what so ever.

@daan you sure, I raise you a pass on the outside on the same corner.

These hit in the feels. :( Nothing can replace those beautiful V10's. :(
 
The thing I like about new Hockenheim is the run from the hairpin to the entrance to the "old stadium". He beauty of it is that there are multiple fast lines through consecutive corners, which makes attacking and defending very difficult. It's difficult to defend, but even when attacking, it's difficult to complete a move without the other guy fighting right back next corner. I much prefer those kind of tracks as opposed to one-line-follow-the -leader tracks where the only way to pass is to throw a Hail Mary down the inside of someone.
 
I don't mind them not using the old layout but what I do mind is it being torn up.
I came here to say this. I'm not a major fan of either (although old Hockenheim was different and interesting) but ripping up the old one is just sad.

The old circuit could still be used for many series and would probably make them a tonne of money on track days.
 
Yeah that was pretty tragic, it would of made a good track for WEC.
I wouldn't be so sure, IMHO the old circuit looks like it would have been a nightmare for navigating through traffic unless they widened it. If that did happen, who's up for a "Kleine Le Mans"? :D
 
They can never do something completely right, can they?

I suppose their belief is that you do it at your own risk. Mount the kerbs and go off track if you think you'll be faster, but if your suspension or tyres fail, it's all your fault. Then again, it brings up a safety issue, because the drivers will try to push the limits and risk catastrophic failure of their tyres like we saw from Vettel in Austria.
 
Mount the kerbs and go off track if you think you'll be faster, but if your suspension or tyres fail, it's all your fault.
If they go off and have a suspension or tyre failure, how many drivers and teams do you think are going to admit that they brought it on themselves?
 
The problem is the tracks with virtually flat kerbs and just tarmac or another grippy surface behind, there is absolutely zero risk to going over those, as we've seen at many tracks.

Here is the official statement from the FIA on the radio.

Radio communication

At the request of the Teams and Commercial Rights Holder, the FIA has agreed to adopt a more liberal approach to the interpretation of Article 27.1 (that a driver must drive the car “alone and unaided”).

With the exception of the period between the start of the formation lap and the start of the race, there will be no limitations on messages teams send to their drivers either by radio or pit board.

This approach is aimed at providing improved content for fans and spectators, as teams will now be required to provide the Commercial Rights Holder with unrestricted access to their radio messages at all times that their cars are out of the garage.
 
Old Hockenheim was interesting because it had those long bent "straights" which pierced the lonely, dense forests. It was punctuated with a few chicanes, and it had the stadium section which allowed cars to catch up to each other. There were two typical passing zones: the run down to the first (Jim Clark) chicane, and the hard left hairpin (Sachs Kurve) into the stadium. But the fastest cars typically outran everyone else to the point where passing chances usually faded away as the laps wound down.

The track was also too narrow to allow for close racing; the front straight was the only place where cars might even attempt to go three-wide, but the marbles and the fact it was the second and third consecutive right-handers kind of kept away most passing from the view of the front straight. Lastly, it has almost no elevation changes nor much natural terrain; the forest saved it from being totally sterile. Even in its time, races at Hockenheim were usually regarded as a bit of a snoozer in the shape of Circuit de Catalunya and Hungaroring; a few occasional spicy events, it usually not all that interesting. But I also think the media saw it as a bland reaction to the disappearance of Nürburgring from the rotation.

The new circuit adds more passing opportunities, and some more challenges. I feel there are also far too many paved run-off areas which inspires close racing at the expense of driver tactics. But I suppose it was in response to the Old Layout...there certainly wasn't much along the one-mile stretches.

Admittedly, I like the new one over the old, though I get nostalgic for the tree-lined straights. Monza fills that void...but for how much longer? That said, I'm totally okay with giving the track back to nature, which the public can enjoy, rather than to selling it to private development, even if it means there will be no vestiges of the track in the next 30-50 years.
 
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