2016 WeatherTech SportsCar ChampionshipSports Cars

[GTRacer22]

My dad just managed to book a hotel for next weekend, so I'll be up in Watkins Glen then! Anyone else here going?

 

[01GTP]

Yup!

I booked my room on January 10, but we are camping and so far the weather looks agreeable.

We'll be there from about noon Thursday to noon Monday. I'm pumped!!

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Mazda will run the 787B livery at Watkins Glen.

 

[Dylan]

They get my stamp of approval.

Edit: If I had one. I should probably make one...

 

[RACECAR]

Neat, can't wait to see that run.



Of course, certain person's Overexcited reaction to this news in...

 

[IforceV8]

Another view.

 

[GTPorsche]

I can not see Mazda or GM spending the extra time and money to upgrade P2 cars to race in P1 and be a lower class of OEM. That would be a tough sell to the board to say we are in the top class but have 400hp less and it will cost $250 mil to compete with A/P/T. If Mazda really wants to go then they will use new Rileymatics with Mazda cam covered Gibson V8's and put Zoom Zoom on the fin. I doubt GM will bother.

As far as no OEM's in P2 the Alpine garage at Le Mans is full of guys wearing Renault gear so that should not be a issue.

LMP1-L is for privateers, so Mazda couldn't directly do that, and GM doesn't have a factory team outside of Corvette anyway.

 

[GTRacer22]

Hot damn.

 

[IforceV8]

LMP1-L is for privateers, so Mazda couldn't directly do that, and GM doesn't have a factory team outside of Corvette anyway.

Which is why I said they would likely rebadge a Gibson and go zoom zoom in P2, just like Alpine does.

AXR and WTR are both factory backed and will lead the Cadillac effort next year. The Taylor boys are factory GM drivers and I would bet the AXR guys are cashing checks from GM too. Mustang sampling and Whelen arent big enough sponsors to fund those cars w/o money coming from some sugar daddy.

 

[GTPorsche]

Factory backed /= factory team.

 

[IforceV8]

Factory backed /= factory team.

So which part of those teams is not factory backed? Drivers, engineering (Pratt & Miller), ECR engines which btw are the same as the ones in the #3 and #4 Corvette.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Factory backed /= factory team.

Yeah Corvette does have factory backing and so the the DP Vette, Corvette Racing website says so. The GM runned Cadillacs in PWC are pratt and miller GM cars. Anything Pratt and Miller does is a factory effort on the part of GM in the similar way Mulimatic is currently under Ford's thumb.

 

[GTPorsche]

Yeah Corvette does have factory backing and so the the DP Vette, Corvette Racing website says so. The GM runned Cadillacs in PWC are pratt and miller GM cars. Anything Pratt and Miller does is a factory effort on the part of GM in the similar way Mulimatic is currently under Ford's thumb.

I know Pratt & Miller are GM Racing, but those Vette DPs only have P&M bodywork.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I know Pratt & Miller are GM Racing, but those Vette DPs only have P&M bodywork.

Uh no. The engine comes from the same supplier that all the GM built race engines come from, along with other stuff that is done at P&M. And as I said the DP's are considered part of Corvette Racing

 

[RACECAR]

Uh no. The engine comes from the same supplier that all the GM built race engines come from, along with other stuff that is done at P&M. And as I said the DP's are considered part of Corvette Racing

So basically, the DPs are less Coyote or Dallara's work and more Pratt & Miller's? Was it like this back in the Grand-AM Era or did this happen after the merger?

 

[IforceV8]

So basically, the DPs are less Coyote or Dallara's work and more Pratt & Miller's? Was it like this back in the Grand-AM Era or did this happen after the merger?

http://prattmiller.com/motorsports/customerteams

 

[catamount39]

So basically, the DPs are less Coyote or Dallara's work and more Pratt & Miller's? Was it like this back in the Grand-AM Era or did this happen after the merger?

Dallara and Coyote only make the chassis, that's how it's always been.

 

[GTPorsche]

Well, well, well, look at that.

CUSTOMER teams.

 

[catamount39]

Well, well, well, look at that.

CUSTOMER teams.

Borderline and about as customer as those factory GT3 teams. They're given direct support from GM to run those cars. Spirit of Daytona is the only Corvette DP customer team, as evident by them not getting the Cadillac next year. Yes they aren't directly run by GM/P&M, but they might as well be. P&M make everything else on all those cars.

 

[IforceV8]

So since P&M webmaster put the DP program under CUSTOMER he thinks he has won some sort of internet victory.

It seems that the Corvette engines are coming from this place and not ECR. http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...ce-center/0202-performance-racing-center.html

 

[GTPorsche]

Then I guess by comparison, every Porsche 911 race car is a factory team car.

 

[IforceV8]

I'm going out to the garage and talk to my John Deere since it will provide a better conversation.

 

[GTPorsche]

Borderline and about as customer as those factory GT3 teams. They're given direct support from GM to run those cars. Spirit of Daytona is the only Corvette DP customer team, as evident by them not getting the Cadillac next year. Yes they aren't directly run by GM/P&M, but they might as well be. P&M make everything else on all those cars.

And this entire time I was speaking of direct factory teams, not factory given support.

There is a difference and apparently no one can see that.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So basically, the DPs are less Coyote or Dallara's work and more Pratt & Miller's? Was it like this back in the Grand-AM Era or did this happen after the merger?

Seemed to happen after the merge. GM builds the shell, the chassis are already mandated by IMSA so all the other work comes down to P&M. GM felt that outside of their global GT effort, they needed something that could fight for class wins, didn't hurt that they're competition was Ford. Weather tech P1/DP class to me is the same thing as NASCAR, you wouldn't know GM gave money to certain teams unless you actively followed the sport and even then it's misleading.

And this entire time I was speaking of direct factory teams, not factory given support.

There is a difference and apparently no one can see that.

But DP just like NASCAR is a factory effort. The support given isn't like that of GT3 stuff. IT's in the interest of GM and Ford that they're teams do well and thus they give money for the operations and help with the engineering aspect. But a group has to be established to do it in the first place.

So since P&M webmaster put the DP program under CUSTOMER he thinks he has won some sort of internet victory.

It seems that the Corvette engines are coming from this place and not ECR. http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...ce-center/0202-performance-racing-center.html

I wonder how many of the guys at Katech were moved over to this place.

 

[GTPorsche]

But DP just like NASCAR is a factory effort. The support given isn't like that of GT3 stuff. IT's in the interest of GM and Ford that they're teams do well and thus they give money for the operations and help with the engineering aspect. But a group has to be established to do it in the first place.

Through means of support. The factories are not fielding these teams, and thus they aren't factory teams.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Through means of support. The factories are not fielding these teams, and thus they aren't factory teams.

Makes no sense, that's like saying Audi isn't a factory effort cause Joest builds the cars and not an Audi assembly line. Like what exactly entails factory effort in your mind, cause I think that will help all of us solve what seems to be an increasingly futile argument.

Cause DP Vette with GM money and P&M parts are as Factory as the GTE/LMs or the PWC Cadis. With the ability for customers to buy said cars and run them which aren't factory AAI for example or Spirit of Daytona.

 

[GTPorsche]

Makes no sense, that's like saying Audi isn't a factory effort cause Joest builds the cars and not an Audi assembly line. Like what exactly entails factory effort in your mind, cause I think that will help all of us solve what seems to be an increasingly futile argument.

Cause DP Vette with GM money and P&M parts are as Factory as the GTE/LMs or the PWC Cadis. With the ability for customers to buy said cars and run them which aren't factory AAI for example or Spirit of Daytona.

Audi has their name on the team. Their branding on the car. Their sponsors on the car. Their drivers in the car. That is a factory effort. Joest wouldn't be allowed in LMP1-H without the Audi partnership.

These teams aren't Chevrolet Action Express Racing or Chevrolet Wayne Taylor Racing. They're separate entities with factory support. Same goes for the NASCAR teams.

 

[RACECAR]

Makes no sense, that's like saying Audi isn't a factory effort cause Joest builds the cars and not an Audi assembly line. Like what exactly entails factory effort in your mind, cause I think that will help all of us solve what seems to be an increasingly futile argument.

Cause DP Vette with GM money and P&M parts are as Factory as the GTE/LMs or the PWC Cadis. With the ability for customers to buy said cars and run them which aren't factory AAI for example or Spirit of Daytona.

Not sure if he agrees, but I've always been under the impression that this is the difference:

Factory Team (Or "Works" team as the use to call them)

- Full technical and financial support
- Tons of factory staff (Including the Manufacterer's leader)
- Factory drivers

Factory supported Team (Or "Customer Team")

- Minimal Technical support (at most, how to operate the car and all the recommendations) with only financial support in the form of PR
- Either little or no factory staff (at most, maybe an engineer)
- Only one or no factory drivers

For the most part, that's usually been the definition I've gotten used to since the early 2000s.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Audi has their name on the team. Their branding on the car. Their sponsors on the car. Their drivers in the car. That is a factory effort. Joest wouldn't be allowed in LMP1-H without the Audi partnership.

Okay and with those guidelines how are certain DP vette's not GM efforts, when GM says they use them as such to promote the Vette brand, Corvette Racing claims them as part of the team with GM and they use factory drivers? I mean

These teams aren't Chevrolet Action Express Racing or Chevrolet Wayne Taylor Racing. They're separate entities with factory support. Same goes for the NASCAR teams.

Neither is the Corvette GT team, but it's quite well known it's a Factory team. GM doesn't call their efforts GM racing...they have a product line and use their racing efforts to help sell certain parts of that line. They want ATS-Vs pushed, they homologated a GT3 version of it and sent them to PWC under Cadi racing. They wanted Corvette to fight for GT class wins at Le Mans and IMSA they sent C7R under the Corvette Racing moniker to do it. They wanted overall victories for things like Sebring and Daytona, so they sent Corvette DPs to do it and gave factory backing to guys.

Factory backing and support go hand in hand at the end of the day. And having a split hair difference means what really? Considering at the end of the day they have a far bigger leg up on competition than the team doing it on their own.

@RACECAR, that's fine, but that's not what we see in IMSA though. The line is blurred to be honest. I mean for example CGR is the name of the Ford factory teams in IMSA and WEC.

In fact Alba Colon with GM came to our SAE meeting a couple years ago, due to the local race in Phoenix and even claimed what efforts they utilize through Indy, NASCAR and IMSA are factory efforts. Maybe to GM factory support means more than what some of us are use to with overseas racing.

 

[Eva]

Not sure if he agrees, but I've always been under the impression that this is the difference:

View attachment 562759

Factory Team (Or "Works" team as the use to call them)

- Full technical and financial support
- Tons of factory staff (Including the Manufacterer's leader)
- Factory drivers

View attachment 562760

Factory supported Team (Or "Customer Team")

- Minimal Technical support (at most, how to operate the car and all the recommendations) with only financial support in the form of PR
- Either little or no factory staff (at most, maybe an engineer)
- Only one or no factory drivers

For the most part, that's usually been the definition I've gotten used to since the early 2000s.

Those are the definitions I recognize.