2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1 

This is the start of a chain reaction that will see Porsche eventually buy the Red bull team. I think it would be great to have them in F1. Perhaps Porsche will supply engines in the meantime, they certainly know how to make a good hybrid engine.
Christian Horner said to Sky Sports F1 earlier that there will be another announcement fairly soon, that isn't linked to Honda, Renault or Porsche and said that they have a relationship with a motor manufacturer already and said you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what it is. There's a video of it on the Sky F1 Twitter feed for those on there.

So Red Bull definitely have something else up their sleeve with Aston Martin, who have been getting more interested in F1 for sometime (I think there was a rumour a few years back about buying Force India before the Red Bull partnership I think).
 
sawtooth fin Force India 2.jpg
sawtooth fin Force India.jpg


(Dutch) source: http://www.gpupdate.net/nl/f1-nieuws/358329/tech-analyse-het-zaagvis-element-van-force-india/
 
The teams want to bring the Shark Fin back for next year (yeah!!!) to display the numbers without taking sponsor space away, and in return ban the Monkey Seat instead.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/shark-fins-set-stay-2018-953486/

Both of which are good moves.

That'd be ace if it comes into fruition. As I've said before, the Shark Fins are what makes the current cars, would just look so odd without it when I've seen renders.

And I don't think I'd miss the "Monkey Seat" either, doesn't do anything for the aesthetics and it's just another area where a development war could begin to find the best/most efficient/most controversial design.
 
Christian Horner said to Sky Sports F1 earlier that there will be another announcement fairly soon, that isn't linked to Honda, Renault or Porsche and said that they have a relationship with a motor manufacturer already and said you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out what it is. There's a video of it on the Sky F1 Twitter feed for those on there.

So Red Bull definitely have something else up their sleeve with Aston Martin, who have been getting more interested in F1 for sometime (I think there was a rumour a few years back about buying Force India before the Red Bull partnership I think).

Hard to see how, unless RBR are footing most of the bill.
 
That'd be ace if it comes into fruition. As I've said before, the Shark Fins are what makes the current cars, would just look so odd without it when I've seen renders.

And I don't think I'd miss the "Monkey Seat" either, doesn't do anything for the aesthetics and it's just another area where a development war could begin to find the best/most efficient/most controversial design.

How so? That area of the car has been that way since EBD were banned, the most development that could come out of it is with another aero package change but even the 2017 one didn't see that area have a massive overhaul. Teams have done some unique things over the years but nothing that has been all that revolutionary from initial concept.

As for the Shark fin, I'm with the majority on this, it's probably one of the best features to disappear if something had to go, if they did a proper one I wouldn't mind it be a choice as it is now. Also why look at a render, when we've seen them without in winter testing...

729389188.jpg
 
Knew this was going to happen, they overreacted to seeing them on cars but I honestly prefer them. Plus its better for teams as the driver can have their number on it without taking sponsership space on the sidepod.
 
How so? That area of the car has been that way since EBD were banned, the most development that could come out of it is with another aero package change but even the 2017 one didn't see that area have a massive overhaul. Teams have done some unique things over the years but nothing that has been all that revolutionary from initial concept.

Fair point, I just assumed (perhaps wrongly) that because the FIA were concerned about teams using the "monkey seats" to effect by blowing exhaust gases over them, a-la the blown diffuser debacle of a few years ago like the article pointed out, that a potential development battle could ensue. But thinking about it now you mentioned it, the biggest changes in that area would only realistically come with an entire change of aero-package. And I suppose it's an area of relative in-significance whereby any development wouldn't really bring that many gains.

However with that said wouldn't miss the "monkey seat" if it was banned, as they're small, and whilst I'm certainly no aerodynamicist I can't imagine there's that much to gain in performance from that area (diffuser aside). But hey, it's potentially another piece to be scrutinised by the FIA, and questioned by other teams, so getting rid of isn't too bad of an option in the long run I guess.

As for the Shark fin, I'm with the majority on this, it's probably one of the best features to disappear if something had to go, if they did a proper one I wouldn't mind it be a choice as it is now. Also why look at a render, when we've seen them without in winter testing...

729389188.jpg

Good point, completely forgot that the Merc ran without the Shark-Fin in testing. But even then I still stand by the view that it looks odd without the shark-fin, looks stretched and doesn't look right personally. I'm not a fan of the way the Merc looks anyway, but the Shark-fin improves it's appearance vastly, but I suppose I've become used to the fins even more now, hence why they look weird without them for me.

But it's each to their own at the end of the day, though I'd be happy to see them stay :).
 
Fair point, I just assumed (perhaps wrongly) that because the FIA were concerned about teams using the "monkey seats" to effect by blowing exhaust gases over them, a-la the blown diffuser debacle of a few years ago like the article pointed out, that a potential development battle could ensue. But thinking about it now you mentioned it, the biggest changes in that area would only realistically come with an entire change of aero-package. And I suppose it's an area of relative in-significance whereby any development wouldn't really bring that many gains.

They don't do that though, to the same degree. Rather it's to help with upwash and try to make a connection with the diffuser and create a slightly better rear down force. Now teams after 2014 used it because the central exhaust design became mandatory and the idea was it would be a small aero device using exhaust gases for more downforce. It would help with rear grip (very slightly), and make the flow clean. However, it has been said the gains are small.

However with that said wouldn't miss the "monkey seat" if it was banned, as they're small, and whilst I'm certainly no aerodynamicist I can't imagine there's that much to gain in performance from that area (diffuser aside). But hey, it's potentially another piece to be scrutinised by the FIA, and questioned by other teams, so getting rid of isn't too bad of an option in the long run I guess.

There isn't that much gain, but there isn't that much gain from the shark fins, as said too. What is there to be judged though? It's a device that saw it's way on the highly experimental cars of Arrows in the early 00s. Then it saw a return in 2012 and has been with us since. As I said either have little benefit, and it seems one is being banned to keep the other, as if the FIA has to ban something. But why? Why not keep the cars reg wise as is. My issue is the micro managing.


Good point, completely forgot that the Merc ran without the Shark-Fin in testing. But even then I still stand by the view that it looks odd without the shark-fin, looks stretched and doesn't look right personally. I'm not a fan of the way the Merc looks anyway, but the Shark-fin improves it's appearance vastly, but I suppose I've become used to the fins even more now, hence why they look weird without them for me.

But it's each to their own at the end of the day, though I'd be happy to see them stay :).

No cause the shark fin Merc ended up with, was horrible and made the car worse looking, without it it looks much better. The long wheel base is why it seems somewhat strange. I get there is some limited functionality but I really hope that if they stay they will limit the shape more.

2004-2.jpg

The current cars without the shark fin remind me of these cars from 04/05 and I think many others are reminded of the same, hence the mass wish to see them gone.

This is the difference I believe that is made when you don't have a shark fin to when you do, since 2017 doesn't have any good comparisons I'll use this image from 2010.
F10_MP425_right.jpg

The McLaren isn't bad, but the Ferrari looks better without it. Looks like an F1 car of traditional sense as much as I hate using that term.
This is the best image i could find for the current cars without and with a shark fin.
difference.jpg

Once again the car flows better, has a nice overall look about it. If the Toro Rosso shark fin was the mandatory template then I would have no issues with shark fins staying. But you get strange solutions, like that of the Merc or Force India.
 
I noticed that Mercedes' shark fin had grown at Singapore too.

Before:
f1-italian-gp-2017-winner-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-second-place-valtteri-bottas-5447011.jpg


After:
f1-singapore-gp-2017-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-5588094.jpg


I prefer the look with the angular cutaway rather than the large surface "fin" - The larger the fin looks, the more it begins looking like a LMP1 car rather than an F1 car.
 
I noticed that Mercedes' shark fin had grown at Singapore too.

Before:
f1-italian-gp-2017-winner-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-second-place-valtteri-bottas-5447011.jpg


After:
f1-singapore-gp-2017-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-5588094.jpg


I prefer the look with the angular cutaway rather than the large surface "fin" - The larger the fin looks, the more it begins looking like a LMP1 car rather than an F1 car.
That was just Singapore specific for the high downforce.
 
I noticed that Mercedes' shark fin had grown at Singapore too.

Before:
f1-italian-gp-2017-winner-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-second-place-valtteri-bottas-5447011.jpg


After:
f1-singapore-gp-2017-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-5588094.jpg


I prefer the look with the angular cutaway rather than the large surface "fin" - The larger the fin looks, the more it begins looking like a LMP1 car rather than an F1 car.
They have actually grown twice, the one you showed above was the one for Silverstone and then the obvious one at Singapore. If you go to the image I show of it first seen at Jerez that is the one they've used more so than any other configuration.

@Jimlaad43 put it best, it's because of the amount of downforce needed and to add to that, the extra need for stabilization along the horizontal axis of the car.

Here is Bahrain for example, where the shark fin isn't as block/box like in Singapore, but isn't as long and close to the t-wing as the Silverstone/Spain version.

E+2017+Lewis+Hamilton+%7C+Mercedes+W08+%7C+2017+Bahrain+GP+P2++1+copy.jpg
 
Last edited:
I nearly edited post to say "again" after thinking it may be pointed out it wasn't the first time! They have run a few, it started before that as well with a simple surface extension running down the "spine of the engine cover, and there is also the version without the internal tunnel that can be seen from above shots.

I hope Singapore is the only place where the Mercedes bears the largest shark fin, the "monza" version (I can't remember where it was actually introduced) is easily my favourite look to the Mercedes since it also helps the T wing from sticking out like a broken thumb.

Have they mentioned whether the u-turn on the shark fin ban will also mean T wings remain in 2018? I couldn't take it if they were to be used with a Halo as well....
 
Have they mentioned whether the u-turn on the shark fin ban will also mean T wings remain in 2018? I couldn't take it if they were to be used with a Halo as well....

Don't know they haven't seemed to finalize the rules yet, probably wont know for sure until next month or November.
 
:nervous:
Dear FIA, FOM, Liberty, Brawn, the guy in the printer room with tipex available - Make it happen. You know what to do. This isn't star wars, we don't need the T-wing.
From probably every fan of F1.
 
I dunno why people dislike the t-wings as they look right on top of the shark fins especially now that the cars have massive rake angles. Without the t-wings the fins just stick up and don't look as nice as they do with the t-wings... I'm probably the only one in the world who thinks this but oh well. It'll suck to lose the t-wings.
 
I think I know what you mean for some teams actually, but only when they run the single element. Most teams though have got large bi/tri planes on their versions though which detract from the look from any angle. So yeah, I think you might be the only one not wanting to see them go!
 
To be fair, I think Honda are slightly on to something. The Size zero philosophy form McLaren during the start of the McHonda relationship was a bad idea really, when you think about a car that was seemingly designed before the engine package was delivered. Due to their last couple cars being size zero in philosophy, especially with a new engine that needs as much cooling as these units do. They were asking for failure and that's why I maintain that McLaren played into their own downfall somewhat, and not just Honda alone.

Next year will help people understand just how much I think, the blame is to go around in that mark of F1 history.
 
The first year Honda had a plan for the engine but McLaren said no, it has to fit into our size zero philosophy. So they reworked everything that first year and the second year they made progress on that. Third year McLaren said do what you have to do to make it work so Honda was basically starting from scratch again. And look at the progress they've made in a single year. Sure it's a lot of reliability issues but when it's working it's not that bad to be honest. It's good they're going to Toro Rosso so they can work on that stuff without being in the limelight of McLaren.
 
The Size zero philosophy form McLaren during the start of the McHonda relationship was a bad idea really

It's a great idea... unless your engine partner can't work in your design parameters. As you say the blame will go around for a long time.

It's rather put me in mind of another "size zero" designer (Adrian Newey) and all the trouble with cooling/packaging that Renault took the blame for. Who'd be a customer supplier nowadays?
 
Maybe I'm misunderstanding Formula One but, unless you're in control of both Chassis & engine design ala Ferrari & Mercedes, it's a agreed partnership with associated terms, parameters etc... within the rules set out by the FIA.

Constructor A is looking for an engine supplier.
Engine supplier A is looking to supply Constructors.
They have talks & decide if they can work together.

Now, if Engine guys say the engine has to be within certain dimensions, have X amount of cooling & will weigh xxx, if Chassis guys don't like what they're hearing, they look elsewhere & see if anyone else can do better.

Looking at the McLaren-Honda deal in its simplest form, when McLaren wanted a 'size zero' concept, it was up to the Honda guys to let them know, yes, that can be done but, the trade off will be this, that & the other.
If McLaren were in fact told all this, why the whinging when the performance & reliability suffered as a consequence?

Back to the drawing board following the realisation that 'Size Zero', while a nice idea, wasn't working, has put Honda at year one in 2017 when the others have essentially been going hard since setting up for the 2014 season.
 
Have they mentioned whether the u-turn on the shark fin ban will also mean T wings remain in 2018? I couldn't take it if they were to be used with a Halo as well....

Sky said during last weekend's coverage that the "monkey seat" would be banned (as per @LMSCorvetteGT2's post above) although shark fins would remain. No mention of the t-wings... I hope they go, I hate them as much as the slab-sided shark fins.

It seems to me that they offer a huge lateral stability benefit to the teams and that their argument about the driver number/flag space is not really the reason they'd like to keep them.
 
Sky said during last weekend's coverage that the "monkey seat" would be banned (as per @LMSCorvetteGT2's post above) although shark fins would remain. No mention of the t-wings... I hope they go, I hate them as much as the slab-sided shark fins.

It seems to me that they offer a huge lateral stability benefit to the teams and that their argument about the driver number/flag space is not really the reason they'd like to keep them.

Agreed on the stability benefit of the shark fins, couldn't the teams argue it's for a safety benefit? Seems the FIA would have a hard time arguing against them on those grounds. Weren't they mandated to slow the cars down and keep them on the ground when they got sideways in the WEC for that reason?
 
Seems Carlos Sainz timing couldn´t been better Honda engines for Toro Rosso will sink them for 3 years

Remains to be seen - Honda's statements since the break-up imply that McLaren's "size zero" strictures were untenable. They hope for a better collaboration. Maybe their engine is actually good up to the McLarenisation point?
 

Latest Posts

Back