2018 F1 Constructor development/techFormula 1

[adb]

Given that wing position is dictated largely by where each end of the car is from origin then I still think different designers will prefer different wheelbases for starters (again, we've seen that plenty). If the engineers are allowed to remove the pesky extra weight from crash structures then we'll see fatal accidents making a regular return, of course - there are no rules about mitigating impacts after all.

Personally I'd design a bullet car that always qualified on pole and then swelled to the width of the track every time another car came close to overtaking. With missiles. A "no rules" concept is impossible and ridiculous, imo.

Ok, no rules thing was an exaggeration on my part

This discussion has taken some weird turn at some point, what initiated it was somebody else saying that current regulations make cars too similar, while I think we both would agree this not to be true.

 

[Dotini]

Anybody heard about a new fuel McLaren/Renault will be running this weekend?

 

[Jimlaad43]

Anybody heard about a new fuel McLaren/Renault will be running this weekend?

Well, I mean, they can't use the fuel they used in Baku because they kinda burned it...

 

[adb]

Anybody heard about a new fuel McLaren/Renault will be running this weekend?

Apparently BP is bringing a fuel update worth about a tenth, haven't heard about it during the weekend though.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Anybody heard about a new fuel McLaren/Renault will be running this weekend?

Yes, I've also heard that Renault in general was bringing a power update for all Renault engines.

More aero updates, RBR this time who claim to be seeing gains.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Looking at the updates this weekend it reminds me how much this will come into play next year...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...closer-racing-and-overtaking-approved-f1.html

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/formula-1-2019-aero-changes/

 

[BrainsBush]

As written in the GP Barcelona topic. --> mirrors attached to Halo is forbidden. Effective next GP at Monaco.

 

[adb]

As written in the GP Barcelona topic. --> mirrors attached to Halo is forbidden. Effective next GP at Monaco.

Are they? I’m pretty sure it’s a ban for winglets Ferrari has mounted to mirrors/halo

 

[BrainsBush]

Are they? I’m pretty sure it’s a ban for winglets Ferrari has mounted to mirrors/halo

They said that the mirrors attached to the halo is extra dangerous. If 'fake news' I'm just the messenger

 

[adb]

They said that the mirrors attached to the halo is extra dangerous. If 'fake news' I'm just the messenger

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-bans-ferrari-s-halo-winglets-for-monaco-1036475/

Apparently it’s a disagreement between FIA and Ferrari, whether it’s for mounting purposes of aerodynamic. As I understand it, halo mirrors will stay, but technical clarification will be issued

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They said that the mirrors attached to the halo is extra dangerous. If 'fake news' I'm just the messenger

Yeah it was the FIA back in China that approved the mirrors to go ahead when Ferrari announced interest, so I would of found it strange for them to claim it fine then turn around a couple races after. The winglets make sense, the FIA has had a history of not liking winglets around the driver.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/16...enaults-canada-engine-upgrades-with-interest/

We have a time line on when RBR will ramp up it's interest toward who gets to be their engine supplier after this year.

Also high visibility rain lights tested during in season testing.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Monaco updates: Force India still have yet to show their entire 2018 package and will reveal a new front wing most likely by the French GP. Which may also feature a new nose

Merc:

Force India new twing

Spoiler

Red Bull twing

Spoiler

McLaren Twing

Spoiler

Revised Ferrari Mirrors

Spoiler

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/28/ferrari-designer-resta-moving-to-rival-team/

 

[Pete05]

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/28/ferrari-designer-resta-moving-to-rival-team/

Well that's something for a certain Aussie to consider

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well that's something for a certain Aussie to consider

I wouldn't if I were him, even if Sauber are getting a future treatment similar to what Haas saw this year, it doesn't change that it is still Sauber. At the end of the day it's probably best for him to go to a team that is already at the front, not one he needs to help build. Then there are other things to consider, one Honda may become the Factory supplier of RBR. Two, Aston are doing a design study with again Former Ferrari engineers to build their own engine for the 2021 regs. Who is the current team Sponsor of RBR...

So many things to consider, and yet every time I think about it, I feel RBR is the best choice at the end of the day. Especially when a certain driver is wearing himself thin over there.

Speaking of Ferrari, the FIA will still monitor the engine of the Ferrari in Canada. They claim that in Monaco Ferrari did a good job proving they were with in the law. However, it was Monaco, the monitoring unit was very cumbersome due to the complicated Ferrari system, and so on.

 

[niky]

I wouldn't if I were him, even if Sauber are getting a future treatment similar to what Haas saw this year, it doesn't change that it is still Sauber. At the end of the day it's probably best for him to go to a team that is already at the front, not one he needs to help build. Then there are other things to consider, one Honda may become the Factory supplier of RBR. Two, Aston are doing a design study with again Former Ferrari engineers to build their own engine for the 2021 regs. Who is the current team Sponsor of RBR...

So many things to consider, and yet every time I think about it, I feel RBR is the best choice at the end of the day. Especially when a certain driver is wearing himself thin over there.

I think it was more like: "Ferrari are losing Resta, development might not be as good next year." if Ric is considering Ferrari.

-

Wouldn't consider Sauber a "rival" to Ferrari, however.

 

[Pete05]

I wouldn't if I were him, even if Sauber are getting a future treatment similar to what Haas saw this year, it doesn't change that it is still Sauber. At the end of the day it's probably best for him to go to a team that is already at the front, not one he needs to help build. Then there are other things to consider, one Honda may become the Factory supplier of RBR. Two, Aston are doing a design study with again Former Ferrari engineers to build their own engine for the 2021 regs. Who is the current team Sponsor of RBR...

So many things to consider, and yet every time I think about it, I feel RBR is the best choice at the end of the day. Especially when a certain driver is wearing himself thin over there.

Speaking of Ferrari, the FIA will still monitor the engine of the Ferrari in Canada. They claim that in Monaco Ferrari did a good job proving they were with in the law. However, it was Monaco, the monitoring unit was very cumbersome due to the complicated Ferrari system, and so on.

Apologies for any confusion but,

I think it was more like: "Ferrari are losing Resta, development might not be as good next year." if Ric is considering Ferrari.

^ This

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think it was more like: "Ferrari are losing Resta, development might not be as good next year." if Ric is considering Ferrari.

-

Wouldn't consider Sauber a "rival" to Ferrari, however.

I mean I get that, but Resta is going to a team that still doesn't have a solid money flow, seems to have Alfa on the side just for PR nothing really technical other than the alliance they've had with Ferrari already. To me this was done on purpose with Ferrari's blessing and I'd imagine Binotto will be the default replacement. I mean they gave the team new engines, a driver who arguably will be there next season, an backing from FCA as well. So some of their members to fix the team up doesn't seem far fetched, and perhaps they feel they need a sister team like that of RBR.

However, Ferrari is still going to be Ferrari even with this move. Though I do find it interesting that Sauber will have their 2019 car probably started this summer. So I agree they may not rival Ferrari but they could rival the likes of FI and McLaren (if McLaren keep playing in the midfield).

 

[baldgye]

I think it was more like: "Ferrari are losing Resta, development might not be as good next year." if Ric is considering Ferrari.

IMO if Riccy is able to choose between Merc and Ferrari more important factors are probably, Kimi's treatment vs Seb and how Ferrari have or haven't taken full advantage of weekends when they have the best package.

But I'm not really sure if a Merc drive is on the tables.


But I think a bigger issue for Ferrari was loosing James Allison, and since then they've had two good seasons. So I'm not really sure that his loss will really impact the team (looking in from the outside anyway).

 

[Pete05]

I mean I get that, but Resta is going to a team that still doesn't have a solid money flow, seems to have Alfa on the side just for PR nothing really technical other than the alliance they've had with Ferrari already. To me this was done on purpose with Ferrari's blessing and I'd imagine Binotto will be the default replacement. I mean they gave the team new engines, a driver who arguably will be there next season, an backing from FCA as well. So some of their members to fix the team up doesn't seem far fetched, and perhaps they feel they need a sister team like that of RBR.

However, Ferrari is still going to be Ferrari even with this move. Though I do find it interesting that Sauber will have their 2019 car probably started this summer. So I agree they may not rival Ferrari but they could rival the likes of FI and McLaren (if McLaren keep playing in the midfield).

This is the Ferrari 'B team' scenario I expected Haas to assume.

I thought it was all falling into place prior to the pitstops at Albert Park too.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This is the Ferrari 'B team' scenario I expected Haas to assume.

I thought it was all falling into place prior to the pitstops at Albert Park too.

I don't really think there is a B team anymore, more so a contingent plan if Ferrari do get to leave F1.

 

[niky]

I don't really think there is a B team anymore, more so a contingent plan if Ferrari do get to leave F1.

Likely that, with both teams sponsored by the FIAT Group, there's some interest in keeping close ties.

Likewise, I don't think Ferrari will suffer that much. They've got a strong development team at the moment, and the organization has been doing very well since Arrivabene took over.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Likely that, with both teams sponsored by the FIAT Group, there's some interest in keeping close ties.

Likewise, I don't think Ferrari will suffer that much. They've got a strong development team at the moment, and the organization has been doing very well since Arrivabene took over.

My only issue is with Marchionne. Arrivabene reminds me a lot of Todt in some ways and though I wasn't a fan I can't deny stuff got done under that type of leadership. However, it takes time especially against an equally and arguably tougher team (Mercedes). I like Arrivabene more than I did Todt, but I worry about the results not being what Marchionne wants and I fear how long this will continue before he wants to give someone else a go.

Again I agree though Ferrari wont at all suffer, I feel this was all planned by them anyways and that's why they know best. I mean when their main engine builder left for Merc last year they didn't worry about that either. And now they have an even stronger unit this year.

 

[Dennisch]

Williams fired their head of aerodynamics Dirk De Beer.

Williams' head of aerodynamics has left the team after a disappointing start to the Formula 1 season.
The departure of Dirk De Beer, who joined the team from Ferrari early last year, follows that earlier this month of chief designer Ed Wood.
Williams finished fifth last season but have slipped down the grid with an uncompetitive 2018 car and are last in the championship after six races.
Chief engineer Doug McKiernan has been given full design responsibility.
McKiernan, who worked for McLaren from 1999 to 2015, joined Williams in February this year.

Williams have discovered that a major aerodynamic flaw is responsible for the car's lack of pace this year.
When the front wheels turn, they disrupt the intended airflow to the back of the car, and the critical rear floor area suffers an aerodynamic 'stall', robbing the car of downforce and grip on corner entry.
The problem is particularly acute on long corners, which is why the car performed better at Monaco last weekend, where short corners predominate, than at the previous race in Spain, where nearly all the corners are long.

A Williams spokesperson said De Beer, who had previously worked at Sauber, Renault and Lotus, had "stepped down, effective immediately".

Under McKiernan, who reports to chief technical officer Paddy Lowe, Dave Wheater has become head of aerodynamics.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

How do you not see or test for a massive flaw like that while both designing and testing the car? Almost seems like there was too much of De Beer flowing around when designing it.


I'll see myself out.

 

[TenEightyOne]

How do you not see or test for a massive flaw like that while both designing....

Simulations and 1/3 scale wind tunnel tests (if Williams even test at that size) don't always demonstrate those kinds of issues - even teams as big as Ferrari and Mercedes admit that sometimes their wind tunnel figures just don't translate to running a full size version on a tarmac track in scale-for-scale atmospheres.

...and testing the car?

They will have seen the problem (or a problem) at that point but by the time you're running your core design you're mitigating it with smaller body/wing pieces, not least because of the time it takes to redesign (and get crash test approval on) something as fundamental as a stalling tub. I refer to Newey's "How to Build an F1 Car" a lot but it really is a great read

De Beer...I'll see myself out.

Here, your coat

 

[Robin]

Better check that he has a real degree and everything, might turn out he has been pretending to be aerodynamicist all this time and has just been wing-ing it.

I'll also see myself out.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How do you not see or test for a massive flaw like that while both designing and testing the car? Almost seems like there was too much of De Beer flowing around when designing it.


I'll see myself out.

Simple, CFD models don't always test for that, and typically are anchored to wind tunnel parameters. If you tested for it on the scale in a wind tunnel and didn't get results that were dramatically adverse, then it would probably not show up in CFD simulation for full scale after. So how did they find out now? Probably because they tested the full car in a tunnel and then took that and put it in CFD to get an even better grasp of how bad it was.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Renault's B-Spec 2018 will run at the next race in Canada but there's some doubt about Red Bull getting the upgrade. Cyril blames "procurement" but reading between the lines it could be "decide your supplier". Sky.