2018 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand PrixFormula 1 

For the first time ever, I now feel like I want Bahrain to be the season opener over Australia. Melbourne has just been a damp squib for the past few years while Bahrain has offered excellent racing. It's done it before, so why not get it back again. Melbourne seem to want to start later in the year, so what's to stop Bahrain moving earlier?
 
In terms of the "dangerous" pitstops, the only thing that would make sense is restricting the number of mechanics for a pitstop, rather than a minimum time. Lots of other series' have 1 person per tyre which naturally slows it all down.

Really all that needs to happen with the lights thing is that they all need failsafes built in, so the light cannot go green unless all wheels have been replaced. Be it sensors, buttons the gunman presses or something else, but whatever they're doing isn't working.
 
Tajima
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
Indeed let's move on.
Mr. I know it all, it seems like that was a sensor since the rear left not being removed tricked the light system.
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I would have already but you responded with something that shows you're just putting up a wall instead of defending your argument logically/intellectually. Now we're done cuz you want to be .Good for you. I hope you feel safe.
 
Im actually serious when I say this, I think pit stops in F1 are complete garbage. A waste of time and resources.

Pit stops serve a purpose in endurance racing, where fuel need to be added, and real tires need to be changed.

Pit stops only exist in F1 as a gimmick to “enhance on track action”. Pirelli’s artificially degrading bubblegum tires are basically backwards thinking technology.

MotoGP doesn’t need pit stops, F1 doesn’t need pit stops. Sure if it starts raining or something, they should be able to put for wet/dry tires, but that’s it.

I’ve never seen number before, but between the crew, the equipment, and the freight to move it all around the world - pit stops have got to cost 10s of millions of dollars per year for the teams. Personally, I’d rather see Williams put Kobica in the car, instead of needing Laurence to pay for the front jack and the jackman’s salary.

Every time I watch an F1 race, each time the director cuts away from cars in track at full speed to watch a car trundle down the pit lane at 60kph, a part of me dies.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate the strategy aspect of pitstops...I just think it belongs in endurance racing, and has no place in F1.

Just my opinion, I know not many will agree. I really cannot figure or what people find so fascinating about pit stops.

Edit: forgot to add

Regardless of my opinion of pit stops, I’m very curious how the fia will handle this. A driver gets hurt, the sport basically needs to be restructured - more runoff, more padding, more nerf bars. Will the FIA even bat an eye at this incident, or is Ferrari’s 50k fine all that’s going to happen (lol...50k, where do they come up with these numbers. I’m willing to bet the pot in the poker game at the back of the plane gets to be around 50k sometimes...chump change).
 
twitcher
I really cannot figure...
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You said it yourself. It's a strategy aspect.

It's like how you can change tire wear rate in GT Sport, they have a large range of tires that basically accomplishes the same thing. It's just another strategy thing to help keep F1 interesting. Take away pit stops and the race would be a lot less interesting with it most likely ending with every car multiple seconds apart. For an example you can look at history. The 1960s F1 races didn't need to pit for tires. Go check out how those went.
 
DesertPenguin
You said it yourself. It's a strategy aspect.

It's like how you can change tire wear rate in GT Sport, they have a large range of tires that basically accomplishes the same thing. It's just another strategy thing to help keep F1 interesting. Take away pit stops and the race would be a lot less interesting with it most likely ending with every car multiple seconds apart. For an example you can look at history. The 1960s F1 races didn't need to pit for tires. Go check out how those went.
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I’ve watched a number of races from the 60s, I take your point in that regard. But I think you’re way off in saying that the spread out races of the 60s are because they didn’t have pit stops, and that pit stops would magically close the grid. Races in the 60s were like that because of the performance difference in the cars, and because of attrition.

The argument that “pit stops keep the racing close” might hold some water if there wasn’t other open wheel categories, namely F2 and F3, where there are no pit stops, and the action remains tight right to the finish. Same thing can be said for nearly any touring car category.

And again, any argument pro-pit stops anyone wants to bring forward....I have 6 letters for them.

M O T O G P

The only reason their ‘necessary’ in F1 is to artificially spice up the action of what would probably be a boring race - all because 20+ years of bad decisions have dug F1 into a hole it can’t seem to find its way out of.
 
Performance difference in cars. Sounds like something we're still dealing with 50 years later so yea my point still stands on that front at least.

The other open wheel categories that have close racing without pit stops? They are one-make series where the only changes a team can make are to the tuning setup. That's why they are always so close all through the field.
 
DesertPenguin
Performance difference in cars. Sounds like something we're still dealing with 50 years later so yea my point still stands on that front at least.

The other open wheel categories that have close racing without pit stops? They are one-make series where the only changes a team can make are to the tuning setup. That's why they are always so close all through the field.
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Moto GP
 
DesertPenguin
:rolleyes:
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:lol: what?

Explain to me why F1 needs pit stops by MotoGP doesn’t?

It’s not one make, there’s performance difference between the bikes...race lengths are relatively similar.

Other than trying to recover from one bad decision after another by artificially enhancing on track action by making cars take a periodic “time-out”, why does F1 need pit stops?

What magic have DORNA worked that they can have non-spec racing that goes down to the wire, week after week, and don’t need pit stops.

You can roll your eyes all you want, but you haven’t got a leg to stand on.
 
You're comparing two completely different types of machines. Mechanical apples to oranges. There are too many variables/discrepancies between the two that you can't just copy/paste one set of regulations to another and have it just "work". There's too much involved and sure I don't know it all well enough to put it into words here but I mean c'mon. It's Formula freakin' One and some pocket rocket on two wheels.

Edit: Also, I'm a penguin. I don't have legs to begin with, just a chubby body and some stubby feet :D
 
DesertPenguin
You're comparing two completely different types of machines. Mechanical apples to oranges. There are too many variables/discrepancies between the two that you can't just copy/paste one set of regulations to another and have it just "work". There's too much involved and sure I don't know it all well enough to put it into words here but I mean c'mon. It's Formula freakin' One and some pocket rocket on two wheels.

Edit: Also, I'm a penguin. I don't have legs to begin with, just a chubby body and some stubby feet :D
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Sorry, but that’s not an argument justifying why F1 needs pit stops.

The only reason anyone can ever present as to why F1 needs pit stops boils down to an attempt to enhance action on track, and overtaking.

So, instead of using pit stops as a bandaid to allow time trial cars to race against one another, why not create a formula of cars that can actually race closely with one another?

These cars are so terrible at racing one another that the only solution to create action is to have 20 guys in jumpers dance the funky chicken in the pit lane for a few seconds? Come on man.
 
twitcher
So, instead of using pit stops as a bandaid to allow time trial cars to race against one another, why not create a formula of cars that can actually race closely with one another?
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They are. It's called the 2021 regulations change. And notice how far away it is and how long it took to even get it to happen? It's a lot simpler to add pit stops than change the regulations on a whole. That's my argument and there's nothing else to say about it because yes, they are changing it. We should stop posting here and revive the topic in 2021 when things change and see if it actually did what you want ;)
 
erm

McLaren are 3rd in the constructors championship
Alonso is 4th in the Drivers'
Ericsson has more points than Force India and Williams combined
Hulkenberg is ahead of both Red Bull drivers
Gasly has more points than Verstappen

WHAT IS THIS SEASON???
 
DesertPenguin
They are. It's called the 2021 regulations change. And notice how far away it is and how long it took to even get it to happen? It's a lot simpler to add pit stops than change the regulations on a whole. That's my argument and there's nothing else to say about it because yes, they are changing it. We should stop posting here and revive the topic in 2021 when things change and see if it actually did what you want ;)
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They’ll probably do the opposite. Listening to the sky crew go all goo goo over the strategy in today race (and Ted wasn’t even there!), for 2021, they’re probably make it so they pit 5 or 6 times in a race.

And just to be clear...I’m not saying “copy/paste the MotoGP rules into F1.”’ Obviously that wouldn’t work. What i am saying is F1 clearly has figured out how to make a tank of gas last a full race; and based on what we see in WEC with Michelin double and triple stinting tires at circuits like Silverstone and Spa, there’s no reason Pirelli can’t design a tire to last a race disance. Remember, Pirelli purposely designs these tires to degrade at an accelated rate, to “spice up the show.”
 
And like I said, if you remove pit stops the power differences between today's cars will still show up and everyone will be spread out by the end. That's what I think would happen and I'm sticking to it. Let's see what 2021 brings eh?
 
twitcher
Sorry, but that’s not an argument justifying why F1 needs pit stops.

The only reason anyone can ever present as to why F1 needs pit stops boils down to an attempt to enhance action on track, and overtaking.

So, instead of using pit stops as a bandaid to allow time trial cars to race against one another, why not create a formula of cars that can actually race closely with one another?

These cars are so terrible at racing one another that the only solution to create action is to have 20 guys in jumpers dance the funky chicken in the pit lane for a few seconds? Come on man.
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Obviously F1 dont NEED pitstops. Pirelli could make tires that would last a race if they needed or wanted to.

But F1 is no sprint race it is a short endurance race. Moto GP races are avarage 120 km a F1 race is 305 km. F1 is about the cars and their development , the drivers and the team effort during pit stops and deciding the strategy. Without the pit stops the races would be more boring. Just watch a 1 stop race where everyone does the same. They are usually the less exiting races.
 
Shottah072
Obviously F1 dont NEED pitstops. Pirelli could make tires that would last a race if they needed or wanted to.

But F1 is no sprint race it is a short endurance race. Moto GP races are avarage 120 km a F1 race is 305 km. F1 is about the cars and their development , the drivers and the team effort during pit stops and deciding the strategy. Without the pit stops the races would be more boring. Just watch a 1 stop race where everyone does the same. They are usually the less exiting races.
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F1 without pit stops is boring. Agreed. That’s a massive problem in my opinion, and speaks to how poorly the formula is designed.
 
Haha right now a live interview with Max on Dutch TV (Ziggo Sport). Also Max had to laugh very hard about Lewis calling him a "D*ckhead".
 
twitcher
F1 without pit stops is boring. Agreed. That’s a massive problem in my opinion, and speaks to how poorly the formula is designed.
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I dont think it is a problem. F1 formula is not designed to get the closest racing. It is designed to have teams and manufacturers compete against eachother to build the best car. Because of this the speed difference between cars is bigger then other formulas where the fields are more evenly matched.
 
Shottah072
I dont think it is a problem. F1 formula is not designed to get the closest racing. It is designed to have teams and manufacturers compete against eachother to build the best car. Because of this the speed difference between cars is bigger then other formulas where the fields are more evenly matched.
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So teams build the fastest cars possible, and then Pirelli gives them bubble gum that artificially degrades to hamstring the fastest cars, making it possible for them to lose the race because someone didn’t do the funky chicken dance properly.

Yup, seems right in line with the philosophy of F1

And if the formula is not about racing, but about building the fastest car possible....I hate be the one to break it to you, but there’s a time and place for that. It’s called the World Time Attack Challange, and it takes place at Sydney Motorsports Park every year.

Sorry, but any agruements pro pit stops boil down to 2 things:

1. The racing without them would be boring, which is testament to the backwards formula.

2. F1 trying to be all things to all people. Sprint, Endurance, car design, racing, tech, individual effort, team effort....jack of all trades, master of none.
 
twitcher
So teams build the fastest cars possible, and then Pirelli gives them bubble gum that artificially degrades to hamstring the fastest cars, making it possible for them to lose the race because someone didn’t do the funky chicken dance properly.

Yup, seems right in line with the philosophy of F1
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Exactly. And whats wrong with loosing a race because a stop got messed up ? This happens in many racing classes and is part of racing.

And if the formula is not about racing, but about building the fastest car possible....I hate be the one to break it to you, but there’s a time and place for that. It’s called the World Time Attack Challange, and it takes place at Sydney Motorsports Park every year.
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Well it is still about racing of course. Its not about who can build the fastest car over a lap but over a entire season and wich driver and team can get the most out of their package.

Sorry, but any agruements pro pit stops boil down to 2 things:

1. The racing without them would be boring, which is testament to the backwards formula.

2. F1 trying to be all things to all people. Sprint, Endurance, car design, racing, tech, individual effort, team effort....jack of all trades, master of none.
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Sounds like good arguments to me, maybe i missed them but what are your agruements to have them removed ? What good do you think will come from that
 

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