3D3 Racing: WRS-based races moved to new WRS sub-forum!

[WRP001]

We had a few unexpected absences in last nights NA race. i.e. No notice, not even a message the day after (so far that I know of). Just a no show. You guys OK? Did the swap of hosts mess you guys up?

GTP_Welsh-Bain
GTP_MilleRSVR​

From the Event Post:

If for some reason, after you register for the event, you are unable to attend the race please send a PM to one of the 3D3 racing stewards or post in the thread so we can update the registration list and make the spot available to another driver.​

We didn't have a full grid and nobody lost a spot, but we do expect some notice when you can't make it so we don't delay the race start.

Hopefully the last minute swap of hosts didn't throw you guys, but I didn't see you log in to PSN last night and I did send a message to you prior to the race so I assume not.

EDIT: Sorry Guys. Lucas pointed out you both did follow procedure and notify us in the thread.... How did I and everyone else in the race miss it? Looking back there are about 5-6 message in a row that never came to my attention including MadMax's last minute registration? I was glad to see him as we were getting thin, but then of course he went and won the event. Must have been my lousy iphone marking threads as read when they weren't.

 

[Speedy6543]

We could even test the concept as a fun race after the race one week, or try to get together again over the weekend to try it out.

👍 Sounds like a plan.

It sure does. 👍
NA or EU testing, I'd try and be a part of the testing.
The more the merrier

PS: Count me in for next weeks EU

 

[CSLACR]

WRP of course you're right - it's not perfect, but I still think it's a little better. Maybe not as fun, but easier to get things started right . Qualifying I'm fine with whatever you guys go with!

I want to ask the more seasoned racers a question also. At about 2:30 in the video above I'm right on sjaak's bumper out of turn 1 and pop out to his right just before turn 2. I didn't actually plan on diving on the inside I just wanted to show myself, brake early and see if he might leave me an opening to pass (and get better visibility on the turn, I was too close to him to see). Because of his draft I misjudged my braking point and suddenly I had nowhere to go and when we were about 1/3 into the corner we exchanged some paint and I probably pushed him off his line a little. When I saw him ease off I decided to go wide and give him the spot back (Hydro also snuck by the dirty bastard hehe), was that the right thing to do in this situation considering the mistake had already been made? Just hoping to learn here

If you'd held your line it looks like you had the run on him entering, it's the swinging wide into him that can be a problem.
With that angle it's really hard to tell exactly how it happened, but letting the guy by never hurts. I can't see if he gave you room, or if you had a "proper" space to pass or not.
If your speed determined you couldn't hold the inside line through the corner without contact (him coming down on you not included), then the proper thing to do is let him back by.
In any case, that's not a severe enough incident that I personally would make a note of it if I were on either your or his end. 👍
Bumps are racing, crashes are avoidable. (This was a bump)

 

[MilleRSVR]

Sign me up for Weds Forest guys. Should be a great race, I like the race cars on racing tires.👍

75 minute race is almost endurance style. Should eat up a few sets of those R1 tires.

 

[yanaran]

Thanks Dom. 👍

I did a practice session in my lounge, got to 18 laps before front tires were toast. First lap on fresh tires after pit was 3 seconds faster so depending on race length I think that's about as long as you'd want to stay out. Weird thing is I made no changes to my setup, this was with Vagabond's WRS setup. It seems almost impossible to wear the rear tires on this car! Does anyone have any tricks for reducing wear on the fronts, other than driving slower?

 

[Ealirendur]

Any AU/NZ'ers want to make a 3rd timeslot, feel like i'm missing out a lot of fun here If you guys had them on the weekends I could stay up but Wed night/Thurs morning

Looks fun! 👍

Heh, for the moment, I'm just getting up at 4am for the EU slot

I still haven't figured out another way to be available (or rather, have the TV/PS3 available) at a set sensible time; might be doable on a weekend morning or something.

Speaking of being up for it, sign me up again (EU). I'll take the slow one!

 

[CSLACR]

Opinions times, I'll try to keep these brief, separated and simple guys...

1. I really don't like the idea of reverse grid in any circumstance, it typically results badly, sometimes for the guys in back, but usually the guys in front push way to hard trying to stay in front and crash. If anything it might separate the field even more this way.

2. Ballast should be relatively easy to start implementing, we could start with something simple like this, and see how it works:
Div 1 - 100kg
Div 2 - 65kg
Div 3 - 30kg
Div 4+ - 0kg
But this will require a "pre-race checklist" Which includes setting the room weight minimum to each weight, and the drivers in that division entering the track, and not leaving once they are in, you start with D1, and move down through. This also has to be double-checked with power and/or PP to really ensure everyone has the proper specs.
Not that I think anyonehere will cheat, because I don't, but people make mistakes, and this is the only way to ensure everyone is at proper spec.

What I can say from driving in other series with ballast, is the weight difference I've given will if anything, not be quite enough to level the field.
But it's a very simple and easy way to start, and I think a very good place to try starting.

BTW sign me up for the NA race, if there's room and I can get on I'll see about trying to get in the EU race this time, but I'll wait and see how my scheduling goes beforehand this time.

Thanks Dom. 👍

I did a practice session in my lounge, got to 18 laps before front tires were toast. First lap on fresh tires after pit was 3 seconds faster so depending on race length I think that's about as long as you'd want to stay out. Weird thing is I made no changes to my setup, this was with Vagabond's WRS setup. It seems almost impossible to wear the rear tires on this car! Does anyone have any tricks for reducing wear on the fronts, other than driving slower?

Once I finally get started I'll see what I can come up with.👍

 

[WRP001]

BTW sign me up for the NA race, if there's room and I can get on I'll see about trying to get in the EU race this time, but I'll wait and see how my scheduling goes beforehand this time.

Sounds Good.

I'm going to miss the NA event.

 

[WRP001]

We are going to set the race distance to 45 laps which amounts to 100 miles. Plus 1 lap for the formation and rolling start.

At this length it's not an endurance race but it will extend about 10 minutes beyond our normal race duration. Since we are not doing qualification online we'll start the race countdown 15 minutes early or as soon as we're all organized for the formation lap.

I'm guessing most (if not all) drivers will choose a 2 pit strategy with this distance but there should be decent variation in the timing of pit stops based on tire management and track position.

Hydro will host everything including a 1 hour optional practice session before each race.

PS> Anyone know the fuel tank size for this car? A quick test revealed this car consumes about 1.6-1.7 liters per lap.

 

[LeftyWright69]

I don't seriously expect Rubens Barrichello to beat Sebastien Vettel

I'll bet Rubens sponsors would think otherwise

 

[yanaran]

45 laps sounds interesting, it's possible to one do with one stop if you go easy on the tires but you'll be really slow on those last 5 laps before the stop/finish. If I remember correctly tire stops are a little faster here than Daytona, you lose about 30 seconds.

 

[CSLACR]

PS> Anyone know the fuel tank size for this car? A quick test revealed this car consumes about 1.6-1.7 liters per lap.

I believe every car in GT5 holds 100 liters. (26.5 gallons)
Actually pretty amusing.

 

[MadMax]

Sign me up for EU slot , thanks.

I also think we should do away with penalties. On Daytona it felt like the only penalties you got where from mistakes or accidents out of your control. Usually you've already lost time and/or position then and it just seems harsh to punish even further. This feels more like a friendly race series to begin with and I don't think any WRS drivers cheat on purpose, and someone will see if you try; maybe not right away, but the next time, or in replays... Who wants to be known as the dirty corner-cutter in these circles?

Anyway that's just my opinion, feel free to ignore it

I do , atleast when doing seasonals for fastest time at Sarthe / Ferrari Enzo .

When racing with WRS guys I drive aggressively , but don't intentionally ram anyone or shortcut.
The corner before T1 at Daytona Road , there I was taking the inside line many times , getting sucked in and countered with handbrake.
In the Daytona races I dodged a few ghosted cars just in case , mostly at bus-stop exit.

EDIT: Sorry Guys. Lucas pointed out you both did follow procedure and notify us in the thread.... How did I and everyone else in the race miss it? Looking back there are about 5-6 message in a row that never came to my attention including MadMax's last minute registration? I was glad to see him as we were getting thin, but then of course he went and won the event. Must have been my lousy iphone marking threads as read when they weren't.

Yeah last minute , backing out of the Seasonal 20 / 750PP TT .
I didn't mean to win the race thought , just cause some havoc.

As mentioned before , the car drove alot better than in EU race and allowed me to corner better at bus-stop.
Might have been just that I forgot to change brake balance , who knows?



MadMax

 

[poolhaas]

This one would have been more fun for me (more ds3 friendly imo) but can't make it.
Hope you guys have fun 👍 (I'm sure you will).

 

[WRP001]

This one would have been more fun for me (more ds3 friendly imo) but can't make it.
Hope you guys have fun 👍 (I'm sure you will).

No problem. I assume you'll make next week if it's spa.

 

[LeftyWright69]

I'll go for the obvious........... I'm in

 

[Sjaak]

Please sign me up for the EU slot.

I am in again.

 

[WRP001]

Sign me up for EU slot , thanks.

I'll go for the obvious........... I'm in

Please sign me up for the EU slot. I am in again.

👍 👍 👍
Note: Penalties are going to be set to weak for sure this week. I don't see any major areas where cutting is going to be a big issue, but there are going to be lapped cars most likely with the length of the race and lap times relatively low. A spin or two plus a second off the pace of the leader puts you in lapped territory and having lapped cars ghosted on this track is probably a good idea.

Regardless of the ghosting feature with penalties, all drivers must honor the blue flag and yield to lead lap traffic. From the OLR (section 10C):

Drivers that are about to get lapped have to make sure not to interfere with the lapping cars. Slow down on the straights on either side of the track or maintain the outside line during cornering. If for whatever reason you happen to be on the inside line when being overtaken, stay on the inside line until all drivers that were about to lap you have passed. You are not allowed to deliberately block the lapping cars.​

 

[EDK]

Are you going to try to police the concrete at the end of T1 for the live races?

Keeping it in play can open up some overtake opportunities, and/or give people a safe place to dive out of the way.

Since quality will be based on WAS results, it might be good to keep it in play.

Thoughts?

 

[WRP001]

Are you going to try to police the concrete at the end of T1 for the live races?

Keeping it in play can open up some overtake opportunities, and/or give people a safe place to dive out of the way.

Since quality will be based on WAS results, it might be good to keep it in play.

Thoughts?

We won't police it as long as GT5 penalty system doesn't. I say we keep it in play just as you recommend. 👍 But we better be sure to test it (in race mode as free run doesn't use penalties) just in case and give out warnings if there are issues.

💡 Actually for events we use penalties we'll try to make it a habit to try and induce them in various areas during testing and create a quick report. Just so everyone is aware what to expect. Time permitting of course.

 

[yanaran]

Tried 23 laps in lounge. Good news is it's possible, bad news I was +3.5 off my fastest lap towards the end. I'm not 100% sure on the math but I think 2 stops is faster in absolute time (forgot to check how much time pit stops cost). 1 stop might have certain tactical advantages though

 

[WRP001]

Tried 23 laps in lounge. Good news is it's possible, bad news I was +3.5 off my fastest lap towards the end. I'm not 100% sure on the math but I think 2 stops is faster in absolute time (forgot to check how much time pit stops cost). 1 stop might have certain tactical advantages though

That's great as we like a little mystery in the race. I love how you are taking to this online stuff so much. The tire wear and drafting really add some fun variables to the equation. I'm hooked myself.

BTW, the fuel is going to get pretty low during the 2nd stint. At 1.6-1.7 liters per lap you are going to be running quite light by the end. I still don't think fuel will be needed as CSL says every car has 100 liter tanks, but how will the reduced weight impact tire wear? Will the faster speeds eat up the tires and offset the weight reduction. Will it be better to pit early and save the longer run for the end? All good mysteries to have going into a race as it helps build the intrigue.

It would be interesting to start a discussion on best method to measure pit stop impact. There are several factors:

In Lap:

1. Pit Entry -- slow down for entry
2. Pit Crew Time -- how are the bobs taking so darn long to change 4 tires?

Out Lap:

1. Pit Exit
2. Tire warm up period (could be a few corners to 1.5 laps depending)

So you have to measure the difference over at least 2 laps. And try to compare what you'd have run in the worn, but warm older tires.

A simple "brute force" method may be to run a bunch of 5 lap races and in half of them pit on lap 3. And then take the average of each group throwing out any outliers and see the difference. You'd then have to include in your estimates for warn tires since they won't be a factor in a 5 lap race, but cold tires will be a factor for lap 4.

Another approach is just run a bunch of laps and project your lap times trying to account for additional tire wear from the laps leading up to the pit for the in/out laps versus actual times when you do pit and take the difference.

Any other ideas?

 

[Don Mejillone]

I want to join the race of 16 october if possible. Greetings GTP_Don (Rudy)

 

[Hydro]

I want to join the race of 16 october if possible. Greetings GTP_Don (Rudy)

Good to see you Don 👍
I'm guessing you mean the 19th though

Good to see the grids filling up guys 👍

Great to see other drivers jumping in and doing some event testing as well.

 

[mohitraina91]

Put me down for the NA race.

I'm down for the EU race too, but looks like the grid might fill up. But if people drop out on the last day I could be there.

 

[Gravitron]

Gooners! 👍 Sorry, I just like saying that.
Looking forward to racing you, was pissed I had to miss Wed's race, and am trying like hell to make next week's.

 

[WRP001]

I want to join the race of 16 19 october if possible. Greetings GTP_Don (Rudy)

👍

Put me down for the NA race. I'm down for the EU race too, but looks like the grid might fill up. But if people drop out on the last day I could be there.

Gooners, I will sign you up as a fully registered driver for the EU event unless you think you are "iffy" to make it.

Don't worry about the grid filling up. If we get more than 16 registered drivers AND everyone confirms their attendance on Wednesday we'll hold two separate events at the same time in two different lounges and split the field down the middle based on quali order. I can't guarantee I can host every EU event, but next week I can for certain as I can't make the NA event. In that case Hydro and I can determine between ourselves which grouping we'll host (and we may just battle it out based on WRS order ).

 

[Speedy6543]

I'm going for a private room practice session in a minute. Feel free to join

 

[Hydro]

Just about to jump in Speedy!

 

[WRP001]

Are you going to try to police the concrete at the end of T1 for the live races?

Keeping it in play can open up some overtake opportunities, and/or give people a safe place to dive out of the way.

We won't police it as long as GT5 penalty system doesn't. I say we keep it in play just as you recommend. 👍 But we better be sure to test it (in race mode as free run doesn't use penalties) just in case and give out warnings if there are issues.

I have to revisit/change my earlier ruling as it was made without consulting any other 3D3 steward. After some discussion and some testing we feel it's best to stick to the WRS track rules (which will be our defacto standard each week). Therefore, the following pictures show a car using areas that are not considered track and are not valid areas a driver can use to make a pass.

If you pull over to let a lead pack by in either of these spots you won't be penalized by us, but not sure what the GT5 programmers think about it as it hasn't been tested fully. But in any case those areas shouldn't be used to gain time or position.

If there are any question or ambiguity we're going to stick with whatever rules are in play for the offline WRS event.