50 of the Same Car! When Are Variations of One Car Too Many?

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I like having tons of variants of externally stock cars. It's essentially "free", as only a few specs have to be changed, and I often find myself playing GT3 and wishing there were models other than the top of the line. For example, I hope to have an S14 K's, Q's, J's, and 240SX, in both Zenki and Kouki versions, in addition to the K's Aero that is the only model present in GT3.

I think it's important to have all the variants, as one of the really cool things about GT is being able to recreate your real-world car and take it racing. Think about it, how many people do you know of who own Impreza STi Spec Cs or 22Bs, as opposed to all the owners of base STis, WRXs, and 2.5s?
 
milefile
This is only really a problem with the Skylines and Evos. They're both decent cars in the game, but I have no use for so many of them.
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Exactly. The Skyline thing got out of control in GT2 (42 in all!), but was reduced somewhat in GT3.

If there's a body change other than cosmetic), then fine, add the car to the line-up. But a stripe or spoiler or new color doesn't fool me. I want to see different power outputs, different drivetrain layouts, and body styles when using similar cars to make it worth my while. Otherwise, the difference between a V-Spec I or V-spec II, or an RS from a GSR is a waste of my time.

Oh, someone's going to bemoan "A Nismo drives sooooo much better than teh R32, you f00l!!!11!!" Yes, it would in unmodified form, in real life. But in a video game, the differences are virtually imperceptable. What's with the Amuse S2000 with it's same-power-as-a-stock-Honda engine and it's "new spoiler", anyhow?

Anyhow, if there's going to be slight variations, then by all means, make them found in the used lot, not just pointless eye candy. And that used lot better change as the days tick on by, giving us a return to doing something in between races, besides collecting cars and souping them up. I could see where GT3 might turn people off because it can get rather simplistic and liner at times.
 
it's interesting to see that most people who complain about this aren't huge fans of japanese cars as a whole. What has to be taken into consideration, is this is a japanese developer in japan, and KY has an inate affection towards lancers and skylines, as many americans have for corvettes and mustangs... lancers and skylines represent that iconic national car status in Japan, hence their prominence in GT.

While i don't have a problem with the inclusion, it's the exclusion that i disagree with. But you also have to take in mind that there are many other issues that go into GT's car list such as licensing and cooperation of manufacturers. Some manufactureres (especially early on) were very accomodating to PD, giving them tech specs (even CAD drawings of their vehicles), while others it was like squeezing blood from a stone.

I think as PS2 really exploded and subsequently GT3 making an enormous mainstream global presence, and the respect that the series receives from auto industry professionals, and many brands seeing positive sales and marketing impacts from being in this game specifically... many manufacturers have embraced the GT concept and vision and have become much more willing to help PD truly reflect their brands.

What i predict for the end result of GT4 is that the manufacturers included will be represented better than in any previous GT (or other car game for that matter) and that most of the key models and types will be present in their polygonal glory. I think you can take leads from some of the brand presence from E3 (look at the expanded BMW lineup) and hope things will be improved in the future. I for one have confidence that GT4 will be the best automobile game released to date.
 
Eagle
o_O In what way?

AIDS is free too.
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What I mean is that it takes a few minutes to change a couple of specifications, as opposed to the days it takes to model and skin a car. So it's nearly effortless and quick to make tons of variants.
 
That's such a lame cop out :p It's probably reasonably true, but it doesn't make it good.

I actually adore Japanese cars, far more than most European and certainly more than American cars, I'd just like to see more variety in all aspects of the game. People want to be able to race the car they have in real life? Well then maybe they should do simply that. I'd rather see more cool cars than more generic clones, regardless of the make or model.
 
I think the main thing that ****s people off so much about the 'multiple' Evo/Skyline/Subaru situation is that they are mostly so similar, in performance, looks and handling. Japanese manufactures have a power limit of 280ps so most of their performance cars are set at this mark. Can anyone who plays GTurismo tell the difference between a Evo6 gsr, a Evo6 rs and a Evo6 Tommi Makk whilst driving them in the game? - i guess not, so why have all versions in??

I can just about justify having all Evos 1-9 and all the differing body styles for scoobies and skylines - but please leave it at that.
 
You know, one thing GT3 could have done with the Lancers is to come up with special schemes. I think the Tommy Makkinen Lancers were either in red, or red with stripes. I thought it was little pointless to have two seperate Lancers than just one. I mean, come on. That's like having a Viper GTS in blue/white stripes as one model, thn red/silver stripes for another. Why not just pick your color options? The TM Lancers were two different cars for sale in the game. That was strange.

The Skyline has long been a successor in Japan. I can recall looking at the very first Skyline in one of my car magazines. Then I look at the R34, which is like an import favorite other than the 350Z/Fairlady Z of today. Sometime in the past, I called the Infiniti G35 the "R35 Skyline." But I think at E3, it was available as a drivable car. I don't think it was called "G35" or even "R35," but it's there.

Phantasm came off with a nice point. A game made by Japanese will most likely bring in Japanese makes. A game made by Americans will most likely bring in American makes. That's true for Sega GT on the Japanese side, then Motor City Online and Corvette (and as I've heard, both failed) here in the States. So a person in America who just does not like Japanese cars at all will likely say "what's with all these Japanese[anese] cars in this game? I want my Camaro! I want a Mustang! I want a freaking Shelby! To hell with these 50 Lancers and 75 Civics!" Meanwhile, if Gran Turismo was an AMERICAN game, someone in Japan (or even Australia) who doesn't like American cars at all will say "what's with all these Camaros and Mustangs? I want more Skylines and Lancers!"

The main point of all this is that this is a Japanese game and the creator has a passion for domestic cars. By domestic, I mean Japan, since PD is in Japan. So it kind of goes both ways. Reverse roles, the same problem tends to come up. How do you combat this? Simple. That's why you have to try to balance everything. Have just enough to make both sides happy. And personally, I hope that Asia (not just Japan), Europe, America, and even Australia are represented. This parity allows for 25% of the four places I mentioned. If the right number of cars with the right amount of influence goes into GT4, everyone will be happy no matter what nationality or type of car the game player is in to. How you do it is the next question, but I can answer with this popular quote:

"I don't know. I'm not PD. GT4 isn't out yet. Don't ask me." -Famine, GTP Member
 
i was never a fan of all the different evos/skylines, that is until i bought my first wheel (wingman ff) last year. it didn´t make that much difference in gt3 though but still there were clearly differences between the various models that i felt never before (with the ds2).
now i thought that with prologue i might take shot at the 900° wheel and i was virtually shocked. there are about 5-6 cars in the game that i already had the pleasure to try out in real life and i was impressed at how similar the cars feel on my ps2. now don´t get me wrong, i don´t wanna sit down for a week to take 20 evo´s to the nürburgring to compare them with each other but with a simulation that accurate (with the 900°) it´s nice to know that you could.

as for me, i´d like to see all the different specs of the VW Käfer/Beetle from the prototype to the last one built in mexico. and not to forget as much Karmann Ghia´s as possible...
 
as for me, i´d like to see all the different specs of the VW Käfer/Beetle from the prototype to the last one built in mexico. and not to forget as much Karmann Ghia´s as possible...

:scared:......and i thought the prospect of driving similar 276bhp was boring - lets try 22 versions of a 27.6bhp car shall we?!?!?!
 
Yeah, like theres no Beetle that have 200+ HP (the New Beetle RSi). :dunce:
 
i am mos def NOT talking about the "New Beetle RSi" that car is simply a joke.
i´m talking air cooled boxer engine & RWD
 
In sort terms, Classic Beetles w/ Porsche engines, now I get it. :dunce:
 
A thread is a hot topic if it has either 50 posts or 1,000 views. And with this one, this will be a hot topic.

I'm going to bring this topic up if you want to discuss multiple variations of cars. Everyone has their preference as to what they want to see more of in GT4. And as I say, don't assume that 20% of cars in Gran Turismo is multiple variations of Japanese cars. Besides, if there were more AMERICAN car variations, the ones who loathe American cars will be complaining. But if more European cars are in GT4, fans of Japanese and American car fans will complain. So as I've said, while more American car fans will want to see more cars like the Dodge Challenger, Chevrolet Chevelle, Ford Fairlane, AMC Rebel (mean machine!), the "General Lee," the Hurst Oldsmobile, and all that. Japanese car fans would want the Mazda Carol (highly likely to be in GT4), Mitsubishi Lancer series, Nissan Skyline series, Toyota Supra, Tommy Kaira ZZ-S, Mazda RX-7, the overrated Honda Civic, Toyota Altezza, and all that.

As I've said, this topic isn't about making fun of Japanese cars always getting the spotlight in GT4, even with multiple variations of them. So as I say, don't assume that this is only on Japanese cars. I'm a fan of many cars around the world, but I wouldn't want to see 25 Mustangs, 50 Camaros, and stuff like that. Sound off!
 
Speaking of japanese cars... do you know if the Mazda 323F is present in GT1 or GT2? I drive the 2001 model (Protege5 in North America) and I miss him in my game!

[edit: not in GT2... just checked the car list)
 
i don't think they have that car (but i am not 100% sure, just by memory)
they do have different version of Miata/RX7, but not 323
 
It should be in, to the best of my knowledge, Samel. So if you see one in GTs 1 or 2, get one! :D
 
Samelborp
Speaking of japanese cars... do you know if the Mazda 323F is present in GT1 or GT2? I drive the 2001 model (Protege5 in North America) and I miss him in my game!

[edit: not in GT2... just checked the car list)
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There are FOUR Mazda 323s in GT2, and one of them is, indeed, the 323F.
 
toler
as for me, i´d like to see all the different specs of the VW Käfer/Beetle from the prototype to the last one built in mexico. and not to forget as much Karmann Ghia´s as possible...
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Same here and don't forget the camper van especialy splitties! However they must be very tunable as in stock form they are painfully slow, my dad's bay goes 50Mph top's! However a tuned Ghia in VolksWorld went 186Mph on the Autobahn and is powered by a porsche 911(993 air cooled) GT3 race motor. Porsche engines don't readily fit into Beetle as they have two extra cylinders but their still exists cars that can do below 11second quarter miles.

Another hope i have is that on the beetle and Ghia which we know will be in the game they get the sound right.

I do hope that all nationalities of car makers get a fair representation as one BMW Alfa and Fiat in GT3 was a joke but at the same time i do not blame this on the fact that there were so many Japanese cars in the game I liked my nismo R and S tune skylines and Mines evo 6
 
911_gt3_rs
Porsche engines don't readily fit into Beetle as they have two extra cylinders but their still exists cars that can do below 11second quarter miles.
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Apparently the Porsche 924 engines fitted better into Beetles than a 911...

911_gt3_rs
Another hope i have is that on the beetle and Ghia which we know will be in the game they get the sound right.
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Defs. The noise of Beetle, Camper, Ghia engines is very distinctive and very cool.

C.
 
Mmm, Famine, at least in the GT2 car list in this very website the 323 aren't featured...

I've found another list, in which there are 2 323's, although there are some other listed as Protege...

Anyway, I am going to discover it soon, as I am about to bought both games through eBay.
 
The BHP probs wouldn't be able to go that high with a proper beetle engine... but they are suprisingly tourquey motors so they would be pretty quick thru the gears...

C.
 
Yeah, it always pissed me off so much there was like almost 10 versions of the Lancer EVO VII in GT4. Dammit, this represents like 5 % of the whole car lineup, this is ridiculous, and not talking about all the other EVOs. I have no problem with that much versions but the problem I have is with the Japanese car vs. Others ratio. Always been a big problem with GT. 15 Evos, 10 WRXs, 20 Skylines but ONE Mustang.

Ridiculous

See ya :sly:
 
Lambo88
Yeah, it always pissed me off so much there was like almost 10 versions of the Lancer EVO VII in GT4. Dammit, this represents like 5 % of the whole car lineup, this is ridiculous, and not talking about all the other EVOs. I have no problem with that much versions but the problem I have is with the Japanese car vs. Others ratio. Always been a big problem with GT. 15 Evos, 10 WRXs, 20 Skylines but ONE Mustang.

Ridiculous

See ya :sly:
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It IS freakin' rediculous! C'mon, you don't need that many versions of the same car. I think that it's okay to have for example Evos from EvoI to Evo VIII, but not the exact same model with only a small difference that you won't even feel when racing. I don't think that American and European car lovers want 40 different models of the same car, we just want more than 1 model!!. 🤬

If the GT series is going to be shipped around the world, then you have to make everyone happy not just Japanese car fans.
 
I knew 98Cobra would pick up on that reply Lambo made.

What I think GT3 should have done (Especially with the Tommi Makkinen Lancer) is offer the model and choose between the regular one and the Lancer with the stripes. And if the car is basically a special version of a Lancer no different from the stock model, then it can be sold in different colors. What I would NOT like to see 10 different Monte Carlos that are no different from one another. Sure as hell don't want to see a bunch of Pontiac Grands Prix (plural of "Grand Prix") that are no different from one another. The reason I think there are so many Lancers, Skylines, and such are because they have been around for quite a while and had several evolutions and generations of the car. And since this is a Japanese-made game, it will be a treat to race almost any model of the long family of cars. I know anyone is going to attack me because American cars are being neglected. I don't know if anyone in Europe wants to say that a certain car isn't very featured in GT. You have to consider EVERYONE. I don't really think America's being neglected.

In terms of more models, I'm happy to see some more Corvettes. I just want to hopefully grace the race track in a lovely 1959 Corvette. Maybe I want a 1963 Sting Ray to go around with. Here's my question. I know people have problems with mutlple Lancers and stuff, so other than Mustangs, what car(s) do you think should be expanded in further detail with many variations of the car including race variations? And as I said before, there are about seven Mustangs I can remember in GT2... shrunk down to one in GT3 with that bad, bad, SUPER BAD Cobra R. So, the question again in case you misread: what car(s) do you think should be expanded in further detail with many variations of the car incluiding race variations?
 
some of y'all are clowns. seriously. you have no idea how to apply that grey matter (missing?) in your heads.

im going to use the skyline and mustang as examples.

the mustang has one drivetrain type (RWD,) one body type (coupe) with three engine choices; 3.8, 4.6, 4.6 twin cam in the cobra. (yes i know there is a cobra R but that was a limited edition and they were for one year and all sold out already. or something like that.)

since the car can be used a stick or auto in the game we wont include transmission choice. so there is three possible mustangs.

the skyline came with two (three) drivetrain types; rear wheel drive, all wheel drive (all wheel drive with rear steer.) three engines that i know of for sure (2.0, 2.5, 2.6 twin turbo) and i pretty sure that the two smaller engines also came in single turbo varieties. im too tired to look everything up for you. that means there is possibly 5 engines. but there also two body types; coupe and sedan. so three (drivetrains) times five (engines) times two (bodystyles) yields 30 different combinations possible for the skyline.

so for every ten differnent skylines in the game there should be one mustang. the ratio seems about right with GT3. i dont know how many skylines were in it so im not sure.

im talking same year model, not R32, R33, R34 varieties which were all different. saying they are all skylines would be akin to saying the v6 mustang from today is the same as the one used in teh 5.0 bodystyle. two different kettles of fish.

also, the game was created by a japanese developer who has a penchant for japanese cars. read any interview where they mention his cars. he doesnt own american iron. its not his style. but he has included them. he could choose to ignore them completely, he hasnt.

so enough with the b!tching and whining already for fuxsakes.

edit to add id forgotten about KYs recent ford GT addition to his stable.
 

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