'65 Mustang fastback engine..

[Jay]

My 71 Monaro GTS doesn't have power steering either, like all older cars it has a skinny steering wheel grip but because it is a GTS is has one of those steel spoked steering wheels (same as early C3 Corvettes) and with the iron V8 up the front and wide front tyres turning it is tough but when the wheel returns itself keep your hands clear! If those spokes hit your knuckles....... Ouch.

 

[McLaren]

I think I'm choosing the wrong words here.

Mustangs were designed with American V8s originally. Skylines were designed with Japanese V6's originally. Elises were designed with a Toyota I4 originally.

What I'm clearly failing to get through is that I find it wrong when you stray so far from what was originally in the car just to be "unique" or something.

You'll have to define the word "originally" as some cars of this era may not have been originally designed to have the engine they have now. McLaren's car was never originally designed to be powered by a BMW V12, just like Jaguar's XJ220 was never originally designed to be a V6.

 

[niky]

GT-R bits are expensive so are Supra bits, cause they are full of techno wizz bangery

Gee, really? Because the last time I looked, an RB engine had pistons, cylinders, valves and spark plugs, just like everything else. RB and JZ engines aren't any more complicated than any other semi-modern powerplant... except for the fact that they can withstand ridiculous amounts of turbocharging.

 

[Tornado]

They are hella expensive to buy, though.

 

[Leonidae]

This disagrees.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

No, Leo, that agrees perfectly considering I (or anyone really) can get a Ford 4.6 DOHC, rebuild it with some nicer bottom-end bits, add boost, and make 550+rwhp for much, much less.

 

[McLaren]

This disagrees.

That's still quite a bit of change, plus, that engine has 41,000 miles on it.

 

[Jay]

I also don't think that GTR engine is all the cheap. It's used (41000miles) and it's 15 years old or more, but it does come with a GTR trans+transfer case which is pretty pricey alone.

No, Leo, that agrees perfectly considering I (or anyone really) can get a Ford 4.6 DOHC, rebuild it with some nicer bottom-end bits, add boost, and make 550+rwhp for much, much less.

You can buy a 4.6 DOHC rebuild it (including machining, gaskets, servicable stuff etc) with some upgraded parts, add boost (supercharger/turbocharger plus all required supporting mods, including inj's, ECU mod etc etc) to get 550rwhp+ for much much less than $3800 US?

 

[Leonidae]

and that wasn't the cheapest one I could find. there were couple for half of that but they were bit more messy.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

You can buy a 4.6 DOHC rebuild it (including machining, gaskets, servicable stuff etc) with some upgraded parts, add boost (supercharger/turbocharger plus all required supporting mods, including inj's, ECU mod etc etc) to get 550rwhp+ for much much less than $3800 US?

With a bit of work, yes. Latest greatest trick of the week stuff, no, but enough to get there, yes.

 

[Jay]

With a bit of work, yes. Latest greatest trick of the week stuff, no, but enough to get there, yes.

Well.... I have a few friends that are doing it all wrong then!


BTW what is much much less equal roughly? (than the 3800 of the GTR engine and trans)

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Hell, I could be wrong/off, it wouldn't be the first time buuut... I'd say $2500 or so if the EFI bits can be found cheaply enough.

Then again you're in Oz, where from what I've heard it's actually cheap to build JZs and rather expensive to build mod motors or SBCs in comparison to here. Here we can get a car with a perfectly rebuildable 4.6, with the best block Ford used, for $1500 or so at most, $600 or so for a less fortunate example or one needing things like new airbags. Add in all you can junk/scrap/sell off that car and you're rather close to a free engine. Then it's all parts and machining.

 

[Jay]

Im sorry, I just still dont believe you can get a 4.6 DOHC EFI with everything required for engine swap (loom, ECU etc) rebuild it (machining, gaskets, rings, seals etc etc) with improved parts (dont know that entails exactly for a 4V 4.6) boost it (super/turbocharge it) to produce 550whp+.

That needs to include all supporting mods (injectors, modded ECU, tune, fuel pump etc etc and whatever else the DOHC 4.6 needs).


I mean on a budget is fine but I dont mean dodgy or unreliable that wont last more than a few bouts of WOT, or crazy friend deals where parts are thrown at you, I mean anyone.

and I was/am talking about the US market BTW.


As for buying the car and selling it off minus parts, that applies to a RB engined car (or any) just the same, that gearbox and transfer case on that linked engine are worth quite a bit alone. Also out of curiousity what Fords come with 4.6 DOHC's that are that cheap?

Also I dont mean to come off rude btw if my posts appear that way.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

It's called Lincoln Mark VIIIs are extremely cheap and have the Teskid block. Complete car = (almost) everything you need

Rotating assembly might be more expensive than I'm bargaining on though (and that's going to be the weak link with a stock early 4V)...

EDIT: And yep, looks like the nicer rotating assemblies are indeed a kick in the balls to the tune of 1500 to 2k...

So perhaps not "much, much less" but around the same. It'll still be lighter than the RB too.

 

[niky]

Expensive... I can get RBs for less than $3000. These aren't particularly new engines, note.

And that's the problem... the age of the engine affects its "affordability" index... and the desirability. I'm pretty sure the current "drifting" craze has something to do with the inflated prices of anything Nissan and/or rear-wheel-drive or rear-wheel-drive applicable.

 

[Duke]

Im sorry, I just still dont believe you can get a 4.6 DOHC EFI with everything required for engine swap (loom, ECU etc) rebuild it (machining, gaskets, rings, seals etc etc) with improved parts (dont know that entails exactly for a 4V 4.6) boost it (super/turbocharge it) to produce 550whp+.

That needs to include all supporting mods (injectors, modded ECU, tune, fuel pump etc etc and whatever else the DOHC 4.6 needs).

Umm, is your eBay Skyline engine coming with all of that stuff too?

 

[Tornado]

This disagrees.

Oh no! Then you spend a hundred bucks or so to get it to around 400 HP. Then you can spend the 1500 left on one of the many SBC turbo kits.

 

[Leonidae]

you managed to miss the part where i said that it wasn't the cheapest option I found. there were few more in less than ideal shape for 1500.. and should it be stock, un-molested RB26dett, just removing the restrictors from the intake system etc should get you around 400bhp..

 

[Tornado]

With the tranny included?

 

[Leonidae]

if the one with tranny included is unmolested, I believe so.

 

[Tornado]

So, as it stands now:
Chevrolet LT1: 400 HP, 6 speed transmission, 450 lbs, $2349.
Nissan RB26DETT: 400 HP, 5 speed transmission, 750 (ish) lbs, $3849.
Not to mention the RB26 is a considerably larger and longer motor.

 

[YSSMAN]

You can get a pretty solid Ford 302ci V8 (turn key) for $4200, which I'd call a pretty sweet deal. Falls short of the 400 BHP mark by 60 BHP, but at that kind of price (with zero miles), I'm not one to complain. Particularly when they're easy to tinker with.

...Something that surprised me?

The LS6 can be had for the very affordable price of $6200. The prices have come down a lot on these, and as I recall, isn't much more than a brand-new LS1.

The best deal?

You can pick up a brand-new LS3 (430 BHP) for less than $9000. Considering its still a brand-new motor (little more than a year old), thats a pretty good deal, considering what kind of power you're getting.

...Hooray crate engines!

 

[Jay]

Umm, is your eBay Skyline engine coming with all of that stuff too?

Not my Skyline engine, I didn't link it.

But no I never said the RB is anything more than the link Leonidae provided (stock RB26 with everything required to install and run plus transmission and transfercase), I never said it was good value either infact I did say in post number 68 it was pricey.

I was not arguing the RB was a good value or even it was a good choice, I just found it hard to believe a Ford 4.6 DOHC could be built to that enormous power that cheaply. (without dodgy mechanics)

So, as it stands now:
Chevrolet LT1: 400 HP, 6 speed transmission, 450 lbs, $2349.
Nissan RB26DETT: 400 HP, 5 speed transmission, 750 (ish) lbs, $3849.
Not to mention the RB26 is a considerably larger and longer motor.

That RB26DETT 750lb's includes transmission, transfer case and front differential, No way the Chev LT1 would have the trans included for 450lb's. That would be 450lb's for engine alone, even then for a cast iron engine that seems a little low.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

LT1 is aluminum.

 

[Jay]

Oh my bad, That makes sense of the weight minus gearbox.


*EDIT* Wait

There were a few different versions of the LT1. All feature a cast iron block, with aluminum heads in the Y and F bodies, and cast iron heads in the B and D bodies. Corvette blocks had four-bolt main caps, while most other blocks were two-bolt main caps.

I thought they were Iron block so I did a quick google and wiki (not the best source but usually ok) agrees.

 

[Tornado]

That RB26DETT 750lb's includes transmission, transfer case and front differential,

Unlikely. RB25DETs weigh in at around 720 with tranny. Considering how much more stuff the RB26DETT has on its engine block, I highly doubt a 30 pound difference is a large enough spread fit in all of the extra piping for the second turbo, bigger intercooler, the second turbo and the transfer case and diff. Especially when most of the dressed weights I'm seeing for the RB26 specify using RB25 trannys.

No way the Chev LT1 would have the trans included for 450lb's. That would be 450lb's for engine alone, even then for a cast iron engine that seems a little low.

True. My mistake. LT1s weigh either a little less than 495 pounds or a little less than 535 pounds. With that tranny I linked to, that would be something along the lines of 645 or 685. Still far less than 750 considering how much shorter and lower the engine is.

 

[Jay]

RB25's turbo is larger, doesnt make up the difference of two smaller turbos but offsets it alittle, the RB25 intake manifold is much longer and heavier than the RB26 with offsets some more.

but I agree the RB26 + trans etc would be more than 30lbs over the RB25+ trans (I never bothered to weigh any perosnally, dont have a scale anyway)

True. My mistake. LT1s weigh either a little less than 495 pounds or a little less than 535 pounds. With that tranny I linked to, that would be something along the lines of 645 or 685. Still far less than 750 considering how much shorter and lower the engine is.

Yeah that sounds about right 👍

 

[Tornado]

This thread has inspired me to go play GT3 again.