Scaff
Moderator
- 29,181
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Who's made that claim?The entire game is based around MTX?
Who's made that claim?The entire game is based around MTX?
If you want to challenge my assertion that the entire game design is based around MTX then answer me a couple questions.What we have here, my friend, is a question of degree.
Most people will agree that there is an issue with micro-transactions in GT7. The game includes some very expensive cars which you can only get through unrealistically long grinding or MTX. Bad game. Naughty game. Boo, hiss.
The $64,000 question is how much of a problem this is. Is it a minor irritant or does it totally ruin the game? Or something in-between.
We can all have opinions about this. I'm in the "minor irritant" camp, but you are wherever you are. It's a free world.
Where I take issue is when people start making absolute statements that don't recognise that we all have different opinions. The entire game is based around MTX? Come on. Some parts of the game are influenced by MTX, but surely not all.
Did I miss the entire point of the earlier post ... or is that another absolute statement?
As I said, it's a question of degree.
You can't buy a brand new Ferrari direct from Ferrari unless they approve you AND you've owned a Ferrari before (you have to buy second hand to start).Don't some customers get invited to purchase certain Ferraris? I also thought people got invited to buy the latest Ford GT. Or maybe they were in a lottery. Can't remember.
Only true for certain models, the majority of the range your can walk right in and buy.You can't buy a brand new Ferrari direct from Ferrari unless they approve you AND you've owned a Ferrari before (you have to buy second hand to start).
The entire game is based around MTX?
Who's made that claim?
Sorry, but those three comments lined up and it was too good to pass up!If you want to challenge my assertion that the entire game design is based around MTX...
And I would disagree with them, the title is designed around MTXs and they are a string element of it, but it's not in every element of it.Sorry, but those three comments lined up was too good to pass up!
For taking it this long to be in the game, it better be...I personally hope that when it comes to selling cars, it's something fun in itself, rather than simply receiving credits in exchange for removing a car from your garage.
Bet PD would make it so that you can only trade cars in for roulette tickets.For taking it this long to be in the game, it better be...
Something like that still wouldn't warrant a 7 month (and still pending) time period...Bet PD would make it so that you can only trade cars in for roulette tickets.
Lol, dude.Jesus Christ. Does "Top up on the PlayStation store" translate to "CLICK HERE TO BUY CREDITS AND SKIP THE GRIND"? No, it doesn't. Knowing you have the ability to buy credits is you being tempted, which is very different than the game advertising the MTX the way others do such as random notifications, reminders on loading screens, % off holiday deals, and offerings of adding the exact credit amount your missing from any given purchase for an adjusted rate in order to make you feel as if its something you have to do if you really want that item and don't want to work for it. Also, true MTX pushed games give you an endless outlet to spend money on with an RNG based reward (IE loot boxes) that are only achievable from those MTX. This has nothing of the sort, so how was this a major core design if there's no gambling aspect to it?
I'm not justifying or excusing a damn thing, I'm pointing out the insane amount of unjustified anger people harbor at a system that is so easily ignored and in no way grounds for a narrative that the game is a MTX cash grab at its core.
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were getting at. Of course in a completley literal sense, absolutely, the entire game is not designed completely around MTX's, they are not present at all in the Music Rally for instance, so a person cannot reasonably claim that mode is influenced by MTX's for instance.What we have here, my friend, is a question of degree.
Most people will agree that there is an issue with micro-transactions in GT7. The game includes some very expensive cars which you can only get through unrealistically long grinding or MTX. Bad game. Naughty game. Boo, hiss.
The $64,000 question is how much of a problem this is. Is it a minor irritant or does it totally ruin the game? Or something in-between.
We can all have opinions about this. I'm in the "minor irritant" camp, but you are wherever you are. It's a free world.
Where I take issue is when people start making absolute statements that don't recognise that we all have different opinions. The entire game is based around MTX? Come on. Some parts of the game are influenced by MTX, but surely not all.
Did I miss the entire point of the earlier post ... or is that another absolute statement?
As I said, it's a question of degree.
I'm hoping it'll be so that you can put your own cars on an online marketplace, where the price is determined by Sport Mode stats like how many times it's finished in the top 5, or perhaps how many gold/silver/bronze finishes it's scored in Online Time Trials. It'd give players a reason to use their own cars instead of always renting, but then it'd also give them a bit of an internal debate: do they put the car up for auction, or hold on it and cherish the memories they've made with that individual car? This same hypothetical update that'd introduce all this could also break down those Sport Mode stats for each and every car you have, so you can view a car and see how many times you've won Sport Mode races with that particular vehicle, for example.For taking it this long to be in the game, it better be...
The fact that you can rent cars kind of ruins the idea of running it like a marketplace however, or at least for any cars that can be used in online races (especially with BoP) - why pay credits for them when you could just "rent" it for free? Car pedigree is good and all, but that doesn't win races.I'm hoping it'll be so that you can put your own cars on an online marketplace, where the price is determined by Sport Mode stats like how many times it's finished in the top 5, or perhaps how many gold/silver/bronze finishes it's scored in Online Time Trials. It'd give players a reason to use their own cars instead of always renting, but then it'd also give them a bit of an internal debate: do they put the car up for auction, or hold on it and cherish the memories they've made with that individual car? This same hypothetical update that'd introduce all this could also break down those Sport Mode stats for each and every car you have, so you can view a car and see how many times you've won Sport Mode races with that particular vehicle, for example.
To clarify my response, no I don't think EVERY piece of the game was designed with MTX in mind, I meant in the broader sense the game philosophy clearly was otherwise many gameplay mechanics (outside of the actual racing itself) have no real reason to exist. The fact that they do exist exasperates the problems the game already faces such as lack of events. I probably articulated myself poorly, but my entire point is that these decisions are not arbitrary. Of course, we can't speak in absolutes so this is the point of discussion, but its obvious at least to me that MTX are very important to the structure of the game and aren't just chilling in the background for convenience. They are core to the game's design philosophy.Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were getting at. Of course in a completley literal sense, absolutely, the entire game is not designed completely around MTX's, they are not present at all in the Music Rally for instance, so a person cannot reasonably claim that mode is influenced by MTX's for instance.
However, I don't think that was the key point, or at least didn't until the posters following message. The point I took was that MTX's have clearly influenced the design of the game, and that fact there is a game in there doesn't negate that at all hence my initial reply to you.
But certainly, I won't ague with your point on absolute statements, I am in full agreement with that point and the posters follow up post suggests your literal interpretation was more correct than mine in that instance.
An argument could be made that because Music Rally awards you literally nothing upon completion, PD is in fact pushing you to either spend more time to grind or buy MTX if you're tempted to actually own the expensive LCD cars featured in Music Rally (like the Cobra and the Barker Tourer for instance).Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were getting at. Of course in a completley literal sense, absolutely, the entire game is not designed completely around MTX's, they are not present at all in the Music Rally for instance, so a person cannot reasonably claim that mode is influenced by MTX's for instance.
My dude, the whole game design is done with MTX in mind. The whole game.I'm pointing out the insane amount of unjustified anger people harbor at a system that is so easily ignored and in no way grounds for a narrative that the game is a MTX cash grab at its core.
Quite the opposite. 6 months of thoroughly engaging play, with countless areas still to delve into. Of which car collection is but a small part.Not exactly a ringing endorsement of entertainment, is it?
"Gran Turismo 7 - It's great to keep you occupied whilst you do other things"
Your OP arbitrarily omits many hundreds of cars (in fact the majority) from GT5 & GT6. Which completely distorts the relative cost & effort to unlock all cars.Been saying for quite a while, some people who want to defend GT7's economy go to those lenghts, without realizing how little sense they are making with their own arguments.
You can only ever speak for yourself. I’ve got more credits than I know what to do with. My current gameplay loop is Time Trials, Circuit Experience & tuning road cars. My next big purchase will be the 917. But that will be largely for liveries & photography.No... it's definitely not.
Your OP arbitrarily omits many hundreds of cars (in fact the majority) from GT5 & GT6. Which completely distorts the relative cost & effort to unlock all cars.
The total cost of cars in GT7 is heavily distorted by VGT’s and niche classics. I’m not against their inclusion. But they’re little more than collection pieces for completionists.
You can only ever speak for yourself. I’ve got more credits than I know what to do with. My current gameplay loop is Time Trials, Circuit Experience & tuning road cars. My next big purchase will be the 917. But that will be largely for liveries & photography.
Nice effort there. But some numbers are clearly off. The GT4 B-Spec event earns you more per hour by skipping one race (the longest to save time, I think it was Opera Paris) and it takes about 12 minutes using the Abt Audi TT or the CLK Touring Car fully tuned in B-Spec. About 3 minutes per race or less with B-Spec x3.Good post! Months ago I made this comparison about the grinding time needed to get the most expensive car in each game.
Gran Turismo 4
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Deutsche Touring Car Meisterschaft. According to this, it takes 50 minutes to win the championship. You can also use the B-Spec mode and win the championship at 2x Speed (It should take 25+ minutes aproximately)
15,000 Cr per race
75,000 Cr championship prize
793,000 Cr Mercedes Benz CLK-LM used price
15,000 Cr x 5 + 75,000 Cr + 793,000 Cr = 883,000 Cr. or 2,119,200 Cr/Hour (it would be 9,418,666 Cr/Hour today, since the most expensive cars on current GTs cost 20M)
It takes 2 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 4,500,000 Cr
Gran Turismo 5 (Prime)
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Expert Level Ferrari Formula Challenge - Nurburgring 24H. According to this, it takes 13 minutes 35 seconds to win the race.
452,700 Cr + 200% Bonus = 905,400 Cr. per race
905,173.5 Cr + 200% Bonus = 1,810,347 Cr. Performance Difference Adjustment
905,400 Cr. + 1,810,347 Cr. = 2,715,747 Cr or 12,069,987 Cr/Hour
It takes 1.66 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Gran Turismo 6 (Prime)
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Red Bull X2014 Standard Championship. According to this, it takes 27 minutes to win the championship.
130,000 Cr. + 200% Bonus = 260.000 Cr per race
500,000 Cr. + 200% Bonus = 1,000,000 Cr championship prize
260,000 Cr x 5 + 1,000,000 Cr = 2,300,000 Cr or 5,111,111 Cr/Hour
It takes 4 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Gran Turismo Sport
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Group 1 Cup - Monza. According to this, it takes 9 minutes to win the race
330,000 Cr per race or 2,200,000 Cr/Hour
It takes 9 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Gran Turismo 7
There is no consensus on what is the fastest way to earn credits. However, many mention that Dirt Champions is the fastest way to earn money.
60,000 Cr per race (including clean race bonus + 30 second menus) or 818,181 Cr/Hour
It takes 24.4 Hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Comparison of money percentages per hour
GT4: 47% per hour
GT5: 60% per hour
GT6: 26% per hour
GTS: 11% per hour
GT7: 4% per hour
Invitations to buy limited edition cars are absolutely a thing in real life. That doesn't mean it's a good gameplay mechanic.Don't some customers get invited to purchase certain Ferraris? I also thought people got invited to buy the latest Ford GT. Or maybe they were in a lottery. Can't remember.
Don't do this. As much as people seem to like to pretend that GTS wasn't a real release, it's as much a mainline title as GT1 or GT3. The only argument against it is it was called "Sport" instead of a number, which is weaksauce.After GT3 was released, they took exactly 3 years and 8 months to release GT4. (PAL versions)
After GT6 was release, they took exactly 8 years and 3 month to release GT7.
I'd suggest if you're doing it while watching TV it's not that engaging, and if you're only using half your attention to play the game it's unlikely to be stretching your skills to the point of improvement either.Many of my all-time favourite titles, such as Battlefield & Bloodborne, involved periods of unlocking items, or building character strength. If there’s engaging gameplay or you’re improving your skills. It’s not a chore.
Don't do this. As much as people seem to like to pretend that GTS wasn't a real release, it's as much a mainline title as GT1 or GT3. The only argument against it is it was called "Sport" instead of a number, which is weaksauce.
Realistically, GT7 took about 4 years and 4 months to release after the last major series iteration. And given that some part of the company's resources during that time went into continued support of GTS, I'd suggest that the man hours that went into making GT7 are probably not so dissimilar to what went into making GT4.
Pretty much this.Invitations to buy limited edition cars are absolutely a thing in real life. That doesn't mean it's a good gameplay mechanic.
Was this before the big 4 high paying events?Good post! Months ago I made this comparison about the grinding time needed to get the most expensive car in each game.
Gran Turismo 4
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Deutsche Touring Car Meisterschaft. According to this, it takes 50 minutes to win the championship. You can also use the B-Spec mode and win the championship at 2x Speed (It should take 25+ minutes aproximately)
15,000 Cr per race
75,000 Cr championship prize
793,000 Cr Mercedes Benz CLK-LM used price
15,000 Cr x 5 + 75,000 Cr + 793,000 Cr = 883,000 Cr. or 2,119,200 Cr/Hour (it would be 9,418,666 Cr/Hour today, since the most expensive cars on current GTs cost 20M)
It takes 2 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 4,500,000 Cr
Gran Turismo 5 (Prime)
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Expert Level Ferrari Formula Challenge - Nurburgring 24H. According to this, it takes 13 minutes 35 seconds to win the race.
452,700 Cr + 200% Bonus = 905,400 Cr. per race
905,173.5 Cr + 200% Bonus = 1,810,347 Cr. Performance Difference Adjustment
905,400 Cr. + 1,810,347 Cr. = 2,715,747 Cr or 12,069,987 Cr/Hour
It takes 1.66 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Gran Turismo 6 (Prime)
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Red Bull X2014 Standard Championship. According to this, it takes 27 minutes to win the championship.
130,000 Cr. + 200% Bonus = 260.000 Cr per race
500,000 Cr. + 200% Bonus = 1,000,000 Cr championship prize
260,000 Cr x 5 + 1,000,000 Cr = 2,300,000 Cr or 5,111,111 Cr/Hour
It takes 4 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Gran Turismo Sport
The fastest way to get money was by doing the Group 1 Cup - Monza. According to this, it takes 9 minutes to win the race
330,000 Cr per race or 2,200,000 Cr/Hour
It takes 9 hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Gran Turismo 7
There is no consensus on what is the fastest way to earn credits. However, many mention that Dirt Champions is the fastest way to earn money.
60,000 Cr per race (including clean race bonus + 30 second menus) or 818,181 Cr/Hour
It takes 24.4 Hours to get the most expensive cars which cost 20,000,000 Cr
Comparison of money percentages per hour
GT4: 47% per hour
GT5: 60% per hour
GT6: 26% per hour
GTS: 11% per hour
GT7: 4% per hour
And GT6 was mostly just an improved GT5. And GT4 was mostly just an improved GT3. And GT2 was mostly just an improved GT1.Except that most (the core aspects especially) things done for GT Sport were ported over to GT7... HUD and most of the UI, physics were just improved upon GT Sport, same for graphics and especially the cars ported that again received better modelling as well.
GT7 was already in development even with the release of GT Sport.
You might feel like that if you're comparing it to GT6 or GT4. But if you were comparing it to GT3 and GT1 you might think that it's a reasonable release of an online focused game. And if you compared it to GT4P, GTHD and GT5P Spec I, you'd have a real hard time making a strong comparison between what were basically big demo discs.GT Sport was basically a prologue. And strictly speaking, just look at how it was at launch. Barebones pretty much.
Is this really the totality of your reasoning? It has "Sport" in the name and feels small?I'm the one who should tell you to not be fooled by GT Sport being a main title release. It wasn't... That's why it was called Sport in the first place.
1. I haven't a clue. But was the "entire economy" really changed? I don't recall that.If you want to challenge my assertion that the entire game design is based around MTX then answer me a couple questions.
1. Why was the entire economy revised exactly when MTX were introduced?
2. Why do roulette tickets exist instead of just giving you a random prize?
3. Why do Brand Central invitations exist? This doesn't even make sense in the context of the real world.
4. Why are the cars in the LCD not there permanently? What gameplay element does this purposely serve?
5. Why don't events pay more?
6. Why can't you sell cars?
Surely, instead of dismissing valid arguments that these core features of the game are designed around the inclusion of MTX, you have some answers of your own. Nobody is dealing with absolutes and that is why this is a discussion. If we knew everything PD was thinking, we wouldn't be discussing it. I for one, gave my opinion on why the MTX are so bad for this game even if you choose not to engage with them.
I will say that the MTX are by far not the biggest issue I have with the game, personally.