A Honda fan question....
- Thread starter skingg
- 33 comments
- 10,939 views
- 946
- Australia
- R0T4RY99
- R0T4RY
doesn't vtec just made the torque smoother not pushing more torque in? sorry if i'm wrong
VTEC in K20A starts working at 6K rpm. Its not linear I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEyPeQQyUE
That is a Civic SI, with Civic Type R engine, only in Coupe Chassis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEyPeQQyUE
That is a Civic SI, with Civic Type R engine, only in Coupe Chassis.
http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p218/CXtypeR/?action=view¤t=slowhatch.flv
heres a quick video of my car. yes, my vtec is barely noticable
- 789
It depends on which version of vtec you have, and which car it's in. All Honda's have VTEC now but your less likely to notice it in a CRV/FRV compared to a S2000.
The vtec cross over at 5800rpm in my S2000 is very noticable espically in lower gears, however how you model this in a video game is a different matter. It's more of a feeling you get through the cars controls, which you'll never be able to model unless it's a full simulator like the Subaru one PD made for GT4.
If you don't know, but vtec is basically the opening of more valves to let more air/fuel into the cylinders to make the car go quicker. This is controlled electronically either by hitting a current rev point (normally 5-6k rpm) or by throttle response (so if you plant your foot into the carpet vtec kicks in).
This is normally done by using two camshafts one for normal driving and the second only kicks in when vtec is enabled. This opens the other valves letting in more fuel and air, and making the engine "work" faster. They do also make a single cam version, which has moving lobes which pop out when you hit vtec. Very clever stuff.
The beauty of the system, is it that allows you decent fuel economy when in lower revs, and some fun when you really open the taps.
The vtec cross over at 5800rpm in my S2000 is very noticable espically in lower gears, however how you model this in a video game is a different matter. It's more of a feeling you get through the cars controls, which you'll never be able to model unless it's a full simulator like the Subaru one PD made for GT4.
If you don't know, but vtec is basically the opening of more valves to let more air/fuel into the cylinders to make the car go quicker. This is controlled electronically either by hitting a current rev point (normally 5-6k rpm) or by throttle response (so if you plant your foot into the carpet vtec kicks in).
This is normally done by using two camshafts one for normal driving and the second only kicks in when vtec is enabled. This opens the other valves letting in more fuel and air, and making the engine "work" faster. They do also make a single cam version, which has moving lobes which pop out when you hit vtec. Very clever stuff.
The beauty of the system, is it that allows you decent fuel economy when in lower revs, and some fun when you really open the taps.
It is a pretty dam good idea if PD implemented that into the game. I remember driving my younger brothers crx with a b20 ls vtec. We had to jerry rig it at the time since the Vtec wasn't working properly. We made a switch to manually turn on the Vtec at a certain RPM, and let me tell it sure felt good feeling that vtec kick in. No doubt about it, honda makes a dam good 4 banger but i would like to see more v6 RW drive from them since they don't have any.
- 20,145
- Australia
- VIPERGTS01
No, the DOHC VTEC systems still have 4 valves per cylinder (4*4=16 valves) and two camshafts (one intake, one exhaust not "Normal" and "VTEC") like all DOHC engines. What they do have (depending on VTEC Type) is multi profile camshafts (different profile lobes on the same camshaft) which switch profile depending on oil pressure. No extra valves get opened.
You got it. The VTEC kick is a myth. It doesn't give any extra power when it kicks in, it just makes the most amazing sound a low displacement 4 cylinder will ever do.
oiman
shows what kinda game it's going to be if it actually does give you a kick...in speed I mean...To me vtec is a boost in sound.
- 147
- Switzerland, EU
- Numer0bis
Exactly what it does about 6000 rpm ( mine Honda Civic Type R EU) it changes the camshaft profile with oil pressure, so the valve are open for a longer time --> you need that for high rpm's because you need more gas at higher rpms.
The so called "Vtec - Kick" is really noticeable in 2,3 gear, but gets less noticeable in 5 and 6. It's not so easy to implement something like this in a game especially with the right sounds. And yes I do love the high pitched sound of my honda civic
When it revs about 9000 rpms it just sounds amazingPlease bear in mind that the honda civic type r can no be compared with the us SI model. All the Type r models for japan and europe are manufactured in uk. The motor is a K20A engine with 200 - 220 bhp depending on exhaust regulations in each country blabla
- 1,534
- Bazra1985
- xSHAx BaZrA
VTEC kick is not a myth.
And as VIPERGTSR01 says - as the oil pressure is built up a plate is pushed over the valve surfaces therefore using the third (middle) lobe on the camshaft - thus producing more power. there is a kick once entered into vtec especially in my Civic VTi, there is more power - better throttle response but its not as harsh a kick as people make out - it is pretty gradual and therefore maximum power is achieved at a higher RPM.
If i'm driving in the wet basicly if im driving hard and hit vtec in 1st or 2nd gear the wheels just start spinning.
And as VIPERGTSR01 says - as the oil pressure is built up a plate is pushed over the valve surfaces therefore using the third (middle) lobe on the camshaft - thus producing more power. there is a kick once entered into vtec especially in my Civic VTi, there is more power - better throttle response but its not as harsh a kick as people make out - it is pretty gradual and therefore maximum power is achieved at a higher RPM.
If i'm driving in the wet basicly if im driving hard and hit vtec in 1st or 2nd gear the wheels just start spinning.
- 7,965
- 17
vtec kick being a myth? thats silly. prelude 2.2 dohc vtec, keeps traction in first if you have your foot to the floor until it hits 5000rpm when vtec kicks in and spin. no extra power........? please lol...
- 1,436
Your prelude spins the tires when it hits vtec? You need new tires, because my bosses' prelude with the 2.2 just gives you a little bit more push when it crosses over. You can tell it's happening, but it's extremely underwhelming. It doesn't even come close to the feeling of hitting the secondaries on a carburator, so maybe that's why I'm unimpressed. Well, that and it's only 200hp.
- 2,791
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
Well, in the game you may hear the change in the exaust sound. But you shure don't feel it (how could you???), and the effect on the RPM gauge can't be noticed (by me at least).
In a real Honda car, VTEC kick can be felt and heard. Period.
I've driven many VTEC Hondas, even de the VFR 800 VTEC bike, and it shows.
On my humble Civic 1.6 - 110bhp, its barely noticeable. But on a friends stock CRX (1.6 - 160bhp) you could hear it loud and clear, and feel it at the base of your back, NO DOUBT.
On another heavy modified 1.6 CRX delSol, the VTEC kick was almost scary.
Obviously, since the press and some "moderated" users disliked the sudden burst of power, it has been tamed over the years so that is does it's job (optimize fuel consumption without harming performance) without being noticed.
The same thing happened with the first turbos. Those who have been lucky to drive things like the Ranault 5 Turbo or a Lancia Delta HF, and now drive modern Astra Coupe Turbo know what I'm talking about.
PS: The Honda VFR 800 VTEC bike engine actually works by using on or two intake valves at a time. But this is the only Honda engine that does so. The remaining modify the timming of valve opening. All Honda car engines (VTEC ones) work like this, no additional valves are triggered by VTEC. As far as I know...
In a real Honda car, VTEC kick can be felt and heard. Period.
I've driven many VTEC Hondas, even de the VFR 800 VTEC bike, and it shows.
On my humble Civic 1.6 - 110bhp, its barely noticeable. But on a friends stock CRX (1.6 - 160bhp) you could hear it loud and clear, and feel it at the base of your back, NO DOUBT.
On another heavy modified 1.6 CRX delSol, the VTEC kick was almost scary.
Obviously, since the press and some "moderated" users disliked the sudden burst of power, it has been tamed over the years so that is does it's job (optimize fuel consumption without harming performance) without being noticed.
The same thing happened with the first turbos. Those who have been lucky to drive things like the Ranault 5 Turbo or a Lancia Delta HF, and now drive modern Astra Coupe Turbo know what I'm talking about.
PS: The Honda VFR 800 VTEC bike engine actually works by using on or two intake valves at a time. But this is the only Honda engine that does so. The remaining modify the timming of valve opening. All Honda car engines (VTEC ones) work like this, no additional valves are triggered by VTEC. As far as I know...
- 20
Ok the way i see it is this - a standard unmodified DOHC VTEC honda engine will give very little "physical" kick when it changes over. This is because its is a natural corssover point at 5800 rpms between the power and torque curves.
I have seen heavily modded DC2 integra Rs that have a HUGE kick, the crossover point is changed and the fuel mapping is changed as well. There must be at least an instant poweer increase of 30-50 hp, and this would be seen on a dyno as a huge spike and then plateu....
This is not how VTEC is supposed to work, because in most cases to get this increase on the VTEC cam they have sacraficed some HP and torque on the normal cam (bearing in mind that they are the same physical cam)
It is supposed to be a transition, bear in mind that you might be accelerating out of a long corner in the wet, and then your going to hit VTEC...... Pretty dangerious situation eh, Hello ditch.
I have a 1990 Civic EF9 (1st gen SiR) with the original B16a VTEC 1600cc that is modified and is making 163HP at the wheels and the VTEC is smooth, peaking at 7300rpm You can certinaly hear it change, but thats just the airbox being turfed out and replaced with a hi flow K&N filter.... Majic
I have seen heavily modded DC2 integra Rs that have a HUGE kick, the crossover point is changed and the fuel mapping is changed as well. There must be at least an instant poweer increase of 30-50 hp, and this would be seen on a dyno as a huge spike and then plateu....
This is not how VTEC is supposed to work, because in most cases to get this increase on the VTEC cam they have sacraficed some HP and torque on the normal cam (bearing in mind that they are the same physical cam)
It is supposed to be a transition, bear in mind that you might be accelerating out of a long corner in the wet, and then your going to hit VTEC...... Pretty dangerious situation eh, Hello ditch.
I have a 1990 Civic EF9 (1st gen SiR) with the original B16a VTEC 1600cc that is modified and is making 163HP at the wheels and the VTEC is smooth, peaking at 7300rpm You can certinaly hear it change, but thats just the airbox being turfed out and replaced with a hi flow K&N filter.... Majic
- 426
- GTP_Kutscher80
Well, VTEC - E works different... (SOHC VTEC)
For all that want to know more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC
For all that want to know more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC
As a real owner of a 1991 CR-X SiR that is unmodified I can say plainly that VTEC is very noticeable both by sound and physical G-Force. The more you do to your motor and adding basic bolt-on parts; the more you can feel it. It goes from "pronounced" to "very pronounced" feeling.
- 3,279
- UK
- GTP_VEXD
Seconded.
I also agree with the earlier comments made about it having been dumbed down in recent years in more mundane vehicles.
The 1.5Lsi VTEC EK civic has a barely noticeable kick, whereas my 17 year old EG (see avatar) is great fun.
And yes, on a long corner, in the wet, approaching 5 grand (for me) you do need to be awake, and that is part of the immense fun of owning a VTEC equipped car.
👍
I also agree with the earlier comments made about it having been dumbed down in recent years in more mundane vehicles.
The 1.5Lsi VTEC EK civic has a barely noticeable kick, whereas my 17 year old EG (see avatar) is great fun.
And yes, on a long corner, in the wet, approaching 5 grand (for me) you do need to be awake, and that is part of the immense fun of owning a VTEC equipped car.
👍DC5-R uses the K-series motor (K20a)
it has a pretty smooth power band, so u won't feel the harshness like say in a B18c5 (DC2-R)
u guys have to understand that the K-series is the next evolution in honda's vtec (now i-vtec)
it no longer exhibits the hardcore roughness like the B-series or capable H-series
B-series and H-series is so outdated but still very capable (poor man's swap)
K-series is the wave now
personally i like the K20 better than the B18c5
its too raw for my liking
in my opinion the K-series (K20a and K24a2) are the best 4 banger DOHC motors honda has ever built thus far
i'm just not a fan of the old B-series and H-series or even the aging J-series
it has a pretty smooth power band, so u won't feel the harshness like say in a B18c5 (DC2-R)
u guys have to understand that the K-series is the next evolution in honda's vtec (now i-vtec)
it no longer exhibits the hardcore roughness like the B-series or capable H-series
B-series and H-series is so outdated but still very capable (poor man's swap)
K-series is the wave now
personally i like the K20 better than the B18c5
its too raw for my liking
in my opinion the K-series (K20a and K24a2) are the best 4 banger DOHC motors honda has ever built thus far
i'm just not a fan of the old B-series and H-series or even the aging J-series
- 1,099
- Texas
- Whiskey345ci
Im considering getting a Honda once I move to AZ. Maybe a EG Coupe, hatch DC2 or Prelude. As a general performance enthusiast I am impressed by most of the Vtec series motors. No matter which one more than likely I will be getting a JDM H22 Type-S swapped unless of course the DC2 is a GSR which I would be satisfied with. A track day machine is the plan. Having Vtec is like having invisible boost!
- 2,791
- Porto
- Burnout_PT
I now own a 1.7 Honda Stream (engine currently being rebuilt due to previous owner being a moron, I found he was doing twice the number of kms with the same oil, and it broke). But I can tell you weight plays a big part in this as well. In both mine and my father in law's 1.7 Stream I don't feel the punch. Or maybe I got used to it :-)
