A little disheartened at the under 500 car roster

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1,237
Australia
Sydney
snakebacon97
Under 500 at launch, sure.
By my counts, the final list for GT Sport has 205 all-new PS4 models (of which 17 were former Standard cars), and 133 returning Premium cars from GT5/6.

From what little I've seen of GT7 so far, we've likely got all 338 cars featured in Sport returning plus:
31 completely new-to-series cars so far (there'll be more than that, even on day one)
11 former Standards from GT past with glorious new models so far (no news yet on Midget II D-type or GT-One TS020 but we'll get there)
7 more returning Premium cars so far (It's odd that Toyota Aqua has already been confirmed while AZ-1 and LFA have not yet, but we'll get there)

That's only 387 out of (>420), there are 44 more cars at minimum that can be added to those three categories. There are 4 SEMA and 8 Pebble Beach winners that haven't yet appeared in GT, at least 6 VGT cars yet to be unveiled, around 165 GT5/6 Premiums that are good candidates for re-inclusion, some fitting into that launch list, and others doubtlessly to be included in updates over the next two or three or four years.
The car roster will grow to 500+. Easily. Just as the track variations roster (counting Reverses) will grow from 90+ to 110+. Easily.
 
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dacc10
GT5/6 Premiums are not ready for re-inclusion. All the models were updated to a higher level for GTS, and this is the reason why they simply didn't port over all the premiums. One of the main criticisms of GTS, was it's small car count, if the models from GT6 were "good enough", they would have been ported over from day one to avoid that. Is it possible that some/many of them will return? Sure, but it's not guaranteed as they all need to be somewhat reworked.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened with FH, they just felt some models weren't good enough. Doubt they would cut content willingly for no reason.
 
4,242
Indonesia
Paint booth
FMecha_EXE
N/A
GT5/6 Premiums are not ready for re-inclusion. All the models were updated to a higher level for GTS, and this is the reason why they simply didn't port over all the premiums. One of the main criticisms of GTS, was it's small car count, if the models from GT6 were "good enough", they would have been ported over from day one to avoid that. Is it possible that some/many of them will return? Sure, but it's not guaranteed as they all need to be somewhat reworked.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened with FH, they just felt some models weren't good enough. Doubt they would cut content willingly for no reason.
Especially when it comes to premiums that originated from GT5P/GTHD; the R32 GT-R's interior, which came from there, in particular/for instance is a big offender (the muddiness that is the PS3/GT5 version of the car, versus the GTS version).
 
14,017
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
The world may be new but the fundamentals of the game releasing tomorrow are the exact same as 4. And they are the same because the community wants them to be the same.

That being said, a high number of tracks would greatly help GT7 feel fresher.
So, like racing games in a nutshell right?
 

MikeV27

Premium
2,999
Canada
Kirkland Lake, Ontario.
veinzerrr
The car count is the least of my concerns, I care more about how the cars are categorized and if they are even relevant to what’s already in the game. I don’t care about cars being added in just to simply make up the numbers, which was largely what GTS dlc cars consisted of.

I can see why people were disappointed with the initial GTS car list, I was too to a certain extent. But at the same time, the games main focus was on Gr4 and Gr3, and we had a wide variety of choices in those categories back then. I want to see more of that, no more adding random different types cars to contribute to the cluster **** in the N or GrX categories.
 
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dacc10
Especially when it comes to premiums that originated from GT5P/GTHD; the R32 GT-R's interior, which came from there, in particular/for instance is a big offender (the muddiness that is the PS3/GT5 version of the car, versus the GTS version).
Just shows how much the car models evolved. Even the best models from GT6 would need some sort of upgrade.

And just looking at the models in GTS, I don't see why people expect improvements in that regard, as they already look great. They should be future proof, almost forever by now, which could mean that from now one, the number will always grow.

The car count is the least of my concerns, I care more about how the cars are categorized and if they are even relevant to what’s already in the game. I don’t care about cars being added in just to simply make up the numbers, which was largely what GTS dlc cars consisted of.

I can see why people were disappointed with the initial GTS car list, I was too to a certain extent. But at the same time, the games main focus was on Gr4 and Gr3, and we had a wide variety of choices in those categories back then. I want to see more of that, no more adding random different types cars to contribute to the cluster **** in the N or GrX categories.
That's the thing. Every player will have it's own "ideal" of what the car list should be. The variety of cars added to GTS via update, actually gave the game longevity.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,433
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
It’s less about what cars and how many for me (more can be better of course), and more a case of how they are used in the game. The problem games with with bloated car lists can have is that many cars can fall into cracks where they aren’t much use.

But also you can have all the cars you could want, but that’s little use if the game isn’t fun. So I’m hoping for a decent structure, plenty of events and good AI. I’m most skeptical about the AI, but one can hope.
 
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8,911
United States
Marin County
I wouldn't mind if they had a sub/mini game (like the arcade games in GTA or PGR accessible in different locations) where you have access to GT4-GT6 era "classic" car models (and tracks?), but they aren't part of the "main game". Anyone remember this in PGR3?



Ah, probably rubbish idea. :lol:
 
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Rey
It’s less about what cars and how many for me (more can be better of course), and more a case of how they are used in the game. The problem games with with bloated car lists can have is that many cars can fall into cracks where they aren’t much use.

But also you can have all the cars you could want, but that’s little use if the game isn’t fun. So I’m hoping for a decent structure, plenty of events and good AI. I’m most skeptical about the AI, but one can hope.
I completely agree with you on the AI! One thing I do not want to be repeated in GT7 is the laziness in programming and lack of procedural races in campaign mode. The major issue with Sport's GT League and Arcade mode was the car order was almost always the same in too many races. Even if you decide to use a different car you normally catch the same cars at the exact same corner in the exact same order. Some cars were always programmed to spin out on the exact same corner every race that particular car was in and it took away from the enjoyment and spontaneity. I stopped playing Sport due to it becoming stale for these reasons.

I really want GT7 to be a game where the campaign mode races are different almost every time you enter. This would make the game almost endless in the different experiences one can have any given race and would add to the longevity of the game overall.
 
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Brazil
So, like racing games in a nutshell right?

Yes. I never said otherwise.

Shift 2 Unleashed from a decade before is the closest example to GT7 I can think of.

Of course, when you subtract cars from the game "just because", then there's a problem.
 
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The Bronx
True. More cars of similar performance of same eras, are more welcome than random cars that just look good. Or as Kaz says, recognisable. Gr.3, Gr.4 and Gr.B are taken care of. Project Cars 2 only has 180+ cars and look how they’re grouped. There’s enough variety and similar level of performance with the cars. Keep in mind, these cars have anywhere from 3-30 alternate liveries! Maximum grid size is 32 on console. So, for 20 cars in GT7, we shouldn’t have a Miura versus a ’06 Ford GT.

This is just a small sample. There are 61 classes. 1-4 classes can be on track at the same time.

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Hope, as car count/significance goes in hand with the PP system, the cars in GT7 will be competitive in their respective classes.
 
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14,017
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Yes. I never said otherwise.

Shift 2 Unleashed from a decade before is the closest example to GT7 I can think of.

Of course, when you subtract cars from the game "just because", then there's a problem.
I know you didn't, it was a question. The problem being is that you have no clue at all if it's "just because." That's the only problem here I feel.
 
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United States
Rey
Not sure we’d get 200, all new to GT, cars in time for March. The car list might be back to the 160-170 range at launch. Think the majority of GT 1->Sport players wouldn’t complain about that? New players, maybe not, but I can see the threads in this place all lit up.
I was hypothetically speaking after gt sport was completed and I never said all new to GT overall just new cars which are not in sport. Don't get me wrong I'm thrilled to be getting some of the originals back such as the Castrol Tom's Supra and Pennzoil GTR but where are their counterparts? Licensing is a big hurdle, but there eventually comes the realization that PD is doing what they're doing intentionally. Have they burned so many bridges with manufacturers that they don't want to do business with PD anymore? Probably not. PD or Sony finding loopholes to avoid paying more is probably more the case. Instead of the newest and greatest they're counting more on nostalgia and that's good and bad. For me personally I wanted to see a mixture of the latest and greatest mixed with nostalgia for their latest iteration but this is not what PD chose to do from the onset of GT7. Will they include the latest and greatest and other cars that should have already been in GT over time? Only time will tell if they do or not.
 
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dacc10
The problem with the list is not the number, is the content of that number. On one side, we have 100+ purpose built race cars in GTS, between Gr.4, 3, 2, 1 and B, which, for a player that is not interested in any of them, and prefers road cars, then 1/3 of the list is rendered "useless".

But it gets worse. The car industry is home to a lot of brands, and those brands have their own fanbases, some bigger than others, but they do exist. Imagine an Audi fan, coming to GTS, and finding out what the Audi dealership looks like. And this applies to many brands. Some are even completely absent from the game. The point is, the more cars we have, the more people will be pleased.
Of course, a player that already has it's favorite car in the game, they'll say the list is perfect. A player that does not, will say it sucks.

Then, the car industry is home to great rivalries. Brands trying to one-up each other, to have the best car in the segment. It feels like something is missing, when a car in the game has no rivals. The Polo GTI is a huge deal, as that segment has (or recently had) 12 brands competing for the small hot hatch segment. And this happens in pretty much every segment, and having only a couple cars from each, it's a shame.
 
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Brazil
I don't care about the car list. Getting between 400 and 600, for me, is fine.

What bothers me the most is the reduced number of circuits (I'm not talking about layout variations) in the GT franchise. Of all racing games on the market, GT always has a small cast compared to other games.

I don't agree that until today the GT franchise has not had Imola, Mugello, Algarve, Sugo, Shanghai, Brno, Watkins Glen, Road America, Zolder, Potrero de las Funes, for example.
 
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12,253
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
I wouldn't mind if they had a sub/mini game (like the arcade games in GTA or PGR accessible in different locations) where you have access to GT4-GT6 era "classic" car models (and tracks?), but they aren't part of the "main game". Anyone remember this in PGR3?



Ah, probably rubbish idea. :lol:

Yakuza games have a similar thing where you can go to arcades and play older games. It's cute.

It would be super funny if there was an "Extras" menu in GT7 where there was just emulated versions of older games. Or at least the PS1 and PS2 ones. That would be a great way to expose new players to the greatness that was older Gran Turismos.

I don't care about the car list. Getting between 400 and 600, for me, is fine.

What bothers me the most is the reduced number of circuits (I'm not talking about layout variations) in the GT franchise. Of all racing games on the market, GT always has a small cast compared to other games.

I don't agree that until today the GT franchise has not had Imola, Mugello, Algarve, Sugo, Shanghai, Brno, Watkins Glen, Road America, Zolder, Potrero de las Funes, for example.
Agreed. For a game that bangs on about car culture it's not done terribly well at including large numbers of the most important/famous/interesting/whatever tracks from around the world. They have some, they could do with having a lot more. When the gameplay is based around racing cars you would expect the venues where this racing takes place to receive as much or more importance as the cars.
 
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dacc10
But car culture is a lot more than just driving around tracks. You can have car culture without race tracks, you can't have car culture without cars. Bonneville Salt Flats is car culture, a drag strip is car culture, a mountain road is car culture, autobahn is car culture, an air strip is car culture, rally stages and hillclimbs are car culture.

We need more tracks, sure, but they don't need more attention than cars, as other games already do that. GT doesn't need to be like other games, nor other games need to be like GT. At the end of the day, it's all about resources, and where they choose to spend them. Some people believe PD is holding Pikes Peak back, but it's more likely that given how big it is (not only the extension, but the whole mountain and surrounding area has to be modeled), they are taking their time modeling it. For GTS, given the focus of the game, they didn't see it as a priority.

Hopefully outsourcing solves this problem, so there's no debate over cars or tracks.
 
14,017
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
But car culture is a lot more than just driving around tracks. You can have car culture without race tracks, you can't have car culture without cars. Bonneville Salt Flats is car culture, a drag strip is car culture, a mountain road is car culture, autobahn is car culture, an air strip is car culture, rally stages and hillclimbs are car culture.
Car culture is more than just driving around tracks - proceeds to list a bunch of things that can and are considered tracks in which cars drive around on.

I really don't get the idea of not having to focus on tracks, but instead only cars, because other games focus on tracks? Why not both? GT in full, is taking on what other games is doing already - Hell, almost the entirety of GTS was in very similar fashion. That's what makes games good, taking the good aspects from other games and incorporating it in your own way. Ignoring all advancements is not a way to progress.

PD is definitely holding Pikes Peak back though, there's no question about it. It's a wasted license at this point.
 
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dacc10
Car culture is more than just driving around tracks - proceeds to list a bunch of things that can and are considered tracks in which cars drive around on.
Wrong. Just because people can race in a specific place (which may or may not be legal in the first place), doesn't mean it's a track. Also driving a car around a location, doesn't mean it's racing. Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance or the Sema show are part of the car culture. Are they race tracks aswell? The point was, car culture is not strictly limited to track racing, and this is a fact. So using "car culture" as an argument that PD "has to" bring more tracks to the game, because if not "it goes against car culture", are simply wrong.

I really don't get the idea of not having to focus on tracks, but instead only cars, because other games focus on tracks? GT in full, is taking on what other games is doing already - Hell, almost the entirety of GTS was in very similar fashion. That's what makes games good, taking the good aspects from other games and incorporating it in your own way. Ignoring all advancements is not a way to progress.
Wrong, again. No one said that PD had to focus only on cars and ignore tracks. PD just does not need to follow the footsteps of other racing games, with half the cars, twice the tracks. The moment GT becomes that, it will get lost in the crowd, and the only thing saving it, is the name. So yes, it's good to implement features from other games, while at the same time, keeping your own identity. GTS is a good example of a game that disappointed fans, because it didn't "feel" like a main GT game. The car list was one of the factors, the lack of tuning another. GT is a mainstream racing game, that is played by many different types of players, that have fun their own way. Some don't care about racing, they just go into a "chill" kind of lobby, and show off their car, cruise around, etc.

In the end, is one thing demanding improvements, it's another asking to change the concept of the game entirely.

PD is definitely holding Pikes Peak back though, there's no question about it. It's a wasted license at this point.
Definitely, because you believe so, right? And what would be the reason btw? Just because? Because they hate the player base and want it to suffer without it? Or could it be that it wasn't ready for the game yet?
 
14,017
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Wrong. Just because people can race in a specific place (which may or may not be legal in the first place), doesn't mean it's a track. Also driving a car around a location, doesn't mean it's racing. Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance or the Sema show are part of the car culture. Are they race tracks aswell? The point was, car culture is not strictly limited to track racing, and this is a fact. So using "car culture" as an argument that PD "has to" bring more tracks to the game, because if not "it goes against car culture", are simply wrong.
No, it's not wrong - it's exactly what you said and did so if that's wrong, you're wrong. You said car culture isn't driving around tracks tracks, then proceeded to name a bunch of things which are basically driving around tracks, or extremely similar. That is more or less the same thing as what you're saying not to focus on. I never said racing, you didn't either, you said places where cars drive around. You're right, Sema is car culture - but that's nothing even similar to what you actually wrote, because it's not a thing that cars drive around, like the many you actually did list.

Car culture is Low Riders, Car Culture is Bosozuku, Car culture is how drifting started. It isn't stretches of road like the many you listed, but those are in fact area's in which people meet and expand that culture. Some car cultures take many ideologies around and mingle them together too, very much like the thing you're fighting against.

Wrong, again. No one said that PD had to focus only on cars and ignore tracks. PD just does not need to follow the footsteps of other racing games, with half the cars, twice the tracks. The moment GT becomes that, it will get lost in the crowd, and the only thing saving it, is the name. So yes, it's good to implement features from other games, while at the same time, keeping your own identity. GTS is a good example of a game that disappointed fans, because it didn't "feel" like a main GT game. The car list was one of the factors, the lack of tuning another. GT is a mainstream racing game, that is played by many different types of players, that have fun their own way. Some don't care about racing, they just go into a "chill" kind of lobby, and show off their car, cruise around, etc.

In the end, is one thing demanding improvements, it's another asking to change the concept of the game entirely.
What's Wrong? It's exactly what you said. What you did was us car culture as a reason to focus more on cars rather than tracks, because everyone else focus's on tracks. PD is already deciding to take on what other games are doing, so it's literally contradicting what you're saying immediately - that's not a bad thing either, that's how things progress, by having competition and learning from the things they bring to the table. Literally no one is saying to 100% copy a game, so not sure why you're going about it that way.

GTS disappointed fans, yet has more likely than not trumped the downward trend of less sales that GT6 was setting? That doesn't make sense. It did extremely well for a game that broke away from it's roots and took on idea's from other games. Which is exactly why they're continuing with it and still making sure its a prominent part of the next game.

Definitely, because you believe so, right? And what would be the reason btw? Just because? Because they hate the player base and want it to suffer without it? Or could it be that it wasn't ready for the game yet?
Who said anything about hating their playerbase? Goes to show how you think about it considering no one mentioned anything of the sort. No, because since they've had the license they've done absolutely nothing with it. If you're so blind to that fact than I don't know what to tell you

Also, how are you going to say something as ridiculous as "Definitely, because you believe so right?" When literally 100% of what you posted is only something that you believe they should do, regardless of the fact that they aren't even going about it the way you're saying. If it's taking them 2 games and 5 years to simply scan a track, than yeah, they're terribly inefficient. Not only that, but the aspect of taking an exclusive license and making sure no other game uses it, while also not making use of it for 4+ years is terrible practice in this day and age. Exclusivity from these brands do nothing for us, the players, in the long run and is exactly what everyone hated about NFS and Porsche.

It would be stupid of them to not learn and take on what makes other racing games good. Especially within this genre, where it's extremely hard to reinvent the wheel. There's a reason why competition is helpful, and that should be obvious.
 
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dacc10
No, it's not wrong - it's exactly what you said and did so if that's wrong, you're wrong. You said car culture isn't driving around tracks tracks, then proceeded to name a bunch of things which are basically driving around tracks, or extremely similar. That is more or less the same thing as what you're saying not to focus on. I never said racing, you didn't either, you said places where cars drive around. You're right, Sema is car culture - but that's nothing even similar to what you actually wrote, because it's not a thing that cars drive around, like the many you actually did list.

Car culture is Low Riders, Car Culture is Bosozuku, Car culture is how drifting started. It isn't stretches of road like the many you listed, but those are in fact area's in which people meet and expand that culture. Some car cultures take many ideologies around and mingle them together too, very much like the thing you're fighting against.
Still wrong. Go read again what I said. I explicitly said that car culture is "not just driving around a track". Then named a few venues, if you will, that are completely different than tracks. But here comes mr. nitpicking, claiming that everything I said "can be" a track. Well great, any stretch of road can be a track, not even a road, any surface, can become a track. But are those places I mentioned, as is, tracks? Nope.

Also, I simply gave examples of places where people drive cars without the intent of purelly racing, and that that's also a part of car culture, as not everything revolves around track racing. Was entirely responding to this claim:
"For a game that bangs on about car culture it's not done terribly well at including large numbers of the most important/famous/interesting/whatever tracks from around the world."

And I ended up just giving some examples that came to mind. Didn't even try to make a "complete list", so there's that.

What's Wrong? It's exactly what you said. What you did was us car culture as a reason to focus more on cars rather than tracks, because everyone else focus's on tracks. PD is already deciding to take on what other games are doing, so it's literally contradicting what you're saying immediately - that's not a bad thing either, that's how things progress, by having competition and learning from the things they bring to the table. Literally no one is saying to 100% copy a game, so not sure why you're going about it that way.

GTS disappointed fans, yet has more likely than not trumped the downward trend of less sales that GT6 was setting? That doesn't make sense. It did extremely well for a game that broke away from it's roots and took on idea's from other games. Which is exactly why they're continuing with it and still making sure its a prominent part of the next game.
Wrong. I stated this:

We need more tracks, sure, but they don't need more attention than cars, as other games already do that.
And at the end:

Hopefully outsourcing solves this problem, so there's no debate over cars or tracks.
Do I need to say more? Or do you still believe that I'm against more tracks in the game?

And btw, where did PD follow other games' footsteps? With GTS, where they quickly realized that a "proper" GT was the way to go next, and not GTS2? Was GTS success based on the concept of the game, or because, unlike GT6, was released on the present gen of console (PS4 back then), and was the first GT to do so, and it was called "Gran Turismo"? Yes, the Sport Mode is staying, which is a good thing as many players enjoyed it, but they also brought back the old GT style, being a game that appeals to the masses. So, at the end of the day, me, and many others, simply don't want GT to be yet another racing game that restricts the car list, to have more tracks (as a trade off).

Who said anything about hating their playerbase? Goes to show how you think about it considering no one mentioned anything of the sort. No, because since they've had the license they've done absolutely nothing with it. If you're so blind to that fact than I don't know what to tell you

Also, how are you going to say something as ridiculous as "Definitely, because you believe so right?" When literally 100% of what you posted is only something that you believe they should do, regardless of the fact that they aren't even going about it the way you're saying. If it's taking them 2 games and 5 years to simply scan a track, than yeah, they're terribly inefficient. Not only that, but the aspect of taking an exclusive license and making sure no other game uses it, while also not making use of it for 4+ years is terrible practice in this day and age. Exclusivity from these brands do nothing for us, the players, in the long run and is exactly what everyone hated about NFS and Porsche.

It would be stupid of them to not learn and take on what makes other racing games good. Especially within this genre, where it's extremely hard to reinvent the wheel. There's a reason why competition is helpful, and that should be obvious.
I asked you a question, to give me a reason to why they would hold on to it. The "because since they've had the license they've done absolutely nothing with it" means nothing, as we have no clue at what stage Pikes Peak is in terms of being modeled/ready for the game or not. Making assumptions that they are holding it back on purpose makes no sense. A more likely answer would be that maybe they didn't prioritise it, given the focus on racing of GTS.

Then, I didn't even mention the license. Doesn't mean I agree with what they did, neither does that I have to believe in the idea that they are holding it back. It should come to GT7, and hopefully it does, either at launch or a future update. For a game that has a fairly low amount of tracks, holding some back is ilogical, specially when they know it's one of the things it would be noticed (low car and/or track count).
 
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12,253
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
But car culture is a lot more than just driving around tracks.
Sure. But I said in a game where "the main gameplay is based around racing cars" tracks should be important. You listed a bunch of stuff that's not racing cars, and I agree that those are car culture and important to it in general. But we're talking about a specific game here, and most of your time in game is probably going to be spent engaging with that game's core gameplay loop. Gran Turismo's gameplay is still largely based around actually driving the cars, and that means that the places that you drive the cars matter a lot.

Just how important you personally think tracks should be will depend from person to person. Some people would prefer 500 cars and 1 track, some would prefer 1 car and 500 tracks. What's not up for debate is that tracks are a critical component of a driving game, and every bit as important as the cars. Because without tracks you in no sense have a driving game.

I brought up car culture because if you accept that tracks are important, as you kind of have to in this sort of game, it would then seem sensible to include as many historically significant or influential tracks as possible. Gran Turismo does okay at this, but not particularly better than other similar games. If Gran Turismo wants to be a game that puts car culture first and foremost, then I think that should also show in their track list, not just the car list.
 
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The Bronx
It’s true. If Kaz want players to know about the shapes of historically significant cars. PD should also make available historically significant circuits and either whole or sections of historically significant roadways.
Would PD go as far as remaking dirt tracks and original circuit layouts? I don’t know. They do have data from older circuits that have been resurfaced and made over.
 
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Sydney
snakebacon97
I wouldn't mind if they had a sub/mini game (like the arcade games in GTA or PGR accessible in different locations) where you have access to GT4-GT6 era "classic" car models (and tracks?), but they aren't part of the "main game". Anyone remember this in PGR3?



Ah, probably rubbish idea. :lol:

I love Geometry Wars, and it's not a bad idea at all, it'd be a nice touch to give GT7 a minigame, whether it's Motor Toon, Omega Boost, or some classic GT.
We may even have the processing power to recreate this mod from TF&TF1
fastnfurious_01_24-1024x427.jpg

And if no games-within games are to happen, we could at least have a skidpad full of cones with high scores :D
 
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12,253
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
Would PD go as far as remaking dirt tracks and original circuit layouts? I don’t know. They do have data from older circuits that have been resurfaced and made over.
And I think with old circuits that are defunct or simply don't exist there's a lot more leeway for Polyphony simply doing their best. With the modern Nurburgring we expect a millimeter perfect replica because that's absolutely within their capability, but something like the original Spa Francorchamps would at best be an informed guess based on the remaining public roads and archival media. That's fine, it's a best effort to recreate a historical artifact at the highest level of fidelity reasonably available.
 
39,162
Australia
The Bronx
Don’t think I’ve seen a console game feature the original Bathurst layout and surface, from its early years. That would be something.
 
1,000
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
Sure. But I said in a game where "the main gameplay is based around racing cars" tracks should be important. You listed a bunch of stuff that's not racing cars, and I agree that those are car culture and important to it in general. But we're talking about a specific game here, and most of your time in game is probably going to be spent engaging with that game's core gameplay loop. Gran Turismo's gameplay is still largely based around actually driving the cars, and that means that the places that you drive the cars matter a lot.

Just how important you personally think tracks should be will depend from person to person. Some people would prefer 500 cars and 1 track, some would prefer 1 car and 500 tracks. What's not up for debate is that tracks are a critical component of a driving game, and every bit as important as the cars. Because without tracks you in no sense have a driving game.

I brought up car culture because if you accept that tracks are important, as you kind of have to in this sort of game, it would then seem sensible to include as many historically significant or influential tracks as possible. Gran Turismo does okay at this, but not particularly better than other similar games. If Gran Turismo wants to be a game that puts car culture first and foremost, then I think that should also show in their track list, not just the car list.
Sure, and I never said I was against more tracks. I just don't think that PD should suddenly prioritise tracks over cars. An equal number in one game is impossible, and maybe a bigger factor is PD choosing to add fictional tracks over real ones.


As for the classic tracks, we had classic Monza in GT6. That's probably the first and only time that happened. Wouldn't mind it coming back, and a few others.