A little disheartened at the under 500 car roster

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syntex123

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To me it’s not a big issue as long as the car list is diverse and with proper classes. I rarely use more than a handful of cars, but it’s nice to have.
 
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One thing that people are missing here (from a quick scan of the responses anyway), is that Kaz has said the customisation in 7 is bigger than any game yet in the series so we could have the same base cat with 3 or 4 of our own versions!
 
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One thing that people are missing here (from a quick scan of the responses anyway), is that Kaz has said the customisation in 7 is bigger than any game yet in the series so we could have the same base cat with 3 or 4 of our own versions!
I'd bet most cars don't have much beyond custom wing options, and I'd bet very few have full kits that make for a cohesive 2nd version of a car, let alone 3 or 4.
 

syntex123

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One thing that people are missing here (from a quick scan of the responses anyway), is that Kaz has said the customisation in 7 is bigger than any game yet in the series so we could have the same base cat with 3 or 4 of our own versions!
Only if all cars get that treatment. GT5’s return of RM was pretty selective.
I'd bet most cars don't have much beyond custom wing options, and I'd bet very few have full kits that make for a cohesive 2nd version of a car, let alone 3 or 4.
Agreed
 
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Only if all cars get that treatment. GT5’s return of RM was pretty selective.
17 out of 1031. Albeit GT5 and GT6 does give Aero Kits to majority of the Premium cars. Though I guess other GTs aren't high of a bar for GT7 to reach.
 

syntex123

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17 out of 1031. Albeit GT5 and GT6 does give Aero Kits to majority of the Premium cars.
But we want more than wings and a tiny lip for the bumper, right?

E34DCCA6-4A5E-4A4B-A767-8735EC064DDC.png
I think I posted this in the GTS forum somewhere. I know we’ll get visible roll cages this time around. I made this a long time ago. But you get what I mean, I hope.
 
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But we want more than wings and a tiny lip for the bumper, right?

View attachment 1094070
I think I posted this in the GTS forum somewhere. I know we’ll get visible roll cages this time around. I made this a long time ago. But you get what I mean, I hope.
I mean what'd you think that GT7 don't have tiny lip for bumper? This is so far probably the aero showing from GT7's trailers:
1634556745828.png

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1634556629189-png.1087146
 
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I say under 500, as typically that’s what ‘over 400’ stands for. We are so use to seeing 700, 800, 1000+ cars in GT games, especially mainline series ones such as GT7.

I know GT sport pretty much had its car roster doubled over the course of its life span, so maybe we could eventually see 800 cars. What do you think?
Hmmm... I think that one of the reasons why Gran Turismo 7 has the under 500 car roster in its base game is that Polyphony Digital and Izmo Ltd. were limiting their times of modeling cars due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
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A bunch of variations for the same car may look like completely unneccessary duplicates, but this somewhat matters to the actual owners of the car. For example, R35 has roughly 5-7 different versions in real life (before even considering the trim difference, or regional difference). Initial version, MY09(JP)/MY10(US), MY10(JP)/MY11(US), the 545hp version, current version, NISMO variant, 50 year limited edition. And there's even more subtle differences within the same variant. For example, among the variants before the current one, there are roughly 5 different launch controls which you can tell the difference immediately as soon as you engaged it. Also, you can distinguish any American versions from any LHD European versions 100 feets away.

To non-owners, they are pretty much the same cars, but some of those differences between the variants is rather huge. I'm pretty sure that I and most R35 owners could tell the difference between the current R35 and every R35 before the current one on a blind test. It's not just 20hp and small aesthetic difference and small changes on functionality. The overall ride feeling is vastly different.

Back in the day (80s and 90s which is about the timeframe that obviously influenced Yamauchi the most), those differences meant something to many people (at least it meant a lot more than what it does now relatively speaking), and that's probably why this series traditionally introduced a huge amount of similar variants of the same cars (though the difference in game is much slimmer than in real life). I believe the emphasis on variants has been gradually toned down on recent series, and moved onto more unique cars.
 
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A bunch of variations for the same car may look like completely unneccessary duplicates, but this somewhat matters to the actual owners of the car. For example, R35 has roughly 5-7 different versions in real life (even before considering the trim difference nor regional difference). Initial version, MY09(JP)/MY10(US), MY10(JP)/MY11(US), the 545hp version, current version, NISMO variant, 50 year limited edition. To non-owners, they are pretty much the same cars, but some of those differences between the variants is pretty huge. I'm pretty sure that I and most R35 owners could tell the difference between the current R35 and every R35 before the current one on a blind test. It's not just 20hp and small aesthetic difference and small functionality changes. The overall ride feeling is vastly different.

Back in the day (80s and 90s which is about the timeframe when Yamauchi got fond into cars), those differences meant something to many people (at least it meant more than what it is now relatively speaking), and that's probably why this series traditionally introduced a huge amount of similar variants of the same cars (though the difference in game is much slimmer than in real life). I believe the emphasis on variants has been gradually toned down on recent series, and moved onto more unique cars.
I did made a list about what I think the car variants should be in game here.

But for GT-R yeah, I'd like for its progression to be detailed via the car selection - from the 473hp debut, SpecV, 542hp Black Edition, '14 Nismo, the new Premium version with 565hp, and current Nismo. The MY09 (JP)/MY10 (US) sounds like the regional difference that GT did bloat in the PS3 era though, like pretty much all the S2000 duplicates.
 
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Every car has it's trim levels and variations. But it's unbearable to have everything in the game. Since they all require resources to be modeled, there is much better use for those resources. Some might say that instead model variations and trim levels only for certain cars (bias), but then I ask, apart from nostalgia, what difference does it make if one car has 2 or more trim levels? In real life sure, it makes a difference to have a better equiped version, but in game it doesn't. Having a car with a GPS screen vs the same car without it, or a cassette player vs CD player, or leather seats or chrome details, makes no difference, is just extra work for the modeling teams.

I'd rather see that effort spent either in more cars from that brand, or into including brands that are yet missing from the game, or in tuning options for those cars. A couple extra body kit options or wheels for that car, is much better than wasting the resources on a trim level for it.

When it comes to the R35, I'd be happy with both versions present in GTS, plus the 2007/2008 version. Wouldn't mind the V-Spec, but it's not a priority, and both it's wheels and exhaust could be tuning options for the versions I mentioned. Other than that, maybe the GT-R50.

As for cars in general, stick with either the best version of the car, like an Audi RS5 for example (instead of the whole A5 family), or, when applicable, the base version and the track toy/hardcore version, like the Aventador/Aventador SV, GT-R/GT-R Nismo, etc.
 
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Every car has it's trim levels and variations. But it's unbearable to have everything in the game. Since they all require resources to be modeled, there is much better use for those resources. Some might say that instead model variations and trim levels only for certain cars (bias), but then I ask, apart from nostalgia, what difference does it make if one car has 2 or more trim levels? In real life sure, it makes a difference to have a better equiped version, but in game it doesn't. Having a car with a GPS screen vs the same car without it, or a cassette player vs CD player, or leather seats or chrome details, makes no difference, is just extra work for the modeling teams.
I'm not talking about the interior updates or features. Some of those variants actually drive very differently in real life. For example, a set of fast tire (e.g. PSC2 R) could single handedly make a world of difference on both lap times and drive feelings. Some cars (such as AMG GT R) have those kind of tires by default, while some cars have those kind of tires as optional feature (such as 991.2 GT3 RS, C7 Z06). Also, some trims may have those by default, while some trims don't even have them on optional features. As a result, sometimes there are big difference in terms of driving characteristics between trims, model years, options, etc.

And it's not just tires. There are many parts that could make the car to behave very differently. For example, 86 and BRZ is basically the same car, but the driving characteristics are very different to each other (86 is way more tail happy). Likewise, if a newer variant adopted 80N/mm spring on front instead of previously used 180N/mm, it'll be felt like a completely different car to you. Of course not all variants have big differences, but some variants actually do have huge differences.

Back in the day, there are a lot of variants which have those kind of difference, and all I'm saying is that's probably the reason why Yamauchi felt the need of introducing so many variants. Mind that there are many cars with horribly long name (such as Subaru Impreza WRX STi Spec C Type RA-R) and each moniker is there for a reason. Even if the spec is pretty similar, there are many ways to make a significantly different car.

Modeling-wise, I can't recall exactly, but Yamauchi once said that it took 1 days for a modeller to make a model for PS1 Gran Turismos, and 1 weeks for PS2 Gran Turismos, 1 months for PS3, and several months for PS4 (numbers may be wrong). That's obviously because of the increase detail. However, a newer variant of some cars typically shares a lot (if not most) of exterior/interior feaetures from their previous iteration, hence very little extra modeling work is needed as most assets could be recycled, unlike a completely new car. I would say the amount of work needed is usually somewhere in the ballpark of PS1 or PS2 models (and that's the reason why most non-owners are typically unable to tell the differences for something like 991.1 GT3 RS vs 991.2 GT3 RS, 14 R35 vs 17 R35, etc, even though they drive very differently).
 
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First, let's tone down the "very differently" thing. If we are speaking of the same model, from the same year/gen of the same car, then the trim level won't make a "huge difference". There will be some differences, but nothing that justifies adding a new trim of an existing car.

Now let's go to "model year". Just because the car gets updated every 2 or 3 years, doesn't mean we should get all of those MY versions. Either pick the better one, or atleast try to add MY that are more than a couple years apart, this is why we should get the original R35, maybe the 2012 Black Edition and then the 2017 version that we already have (plus the track focused Nismo, which is much more than just a trim level or a facelift). The point is, let's have cars with a purpose, and not just for the sake of boosting numbers.

As R35s go, there are 18 versions atleast: 2008 GT-R, 2010 SpecV, 2011 GT-R, 2011 GT-R Egoist, 2012 GT-R, 2012 Track Pack, 2013 GT-R, 2014 GT-R, 2014 Track Edition, 2015 GT-R, 2015 GT-R Nismo, 2017 GT-R, 2017 Nismo, 2017 Track Edition, 2018 GT-R (US), 2020 GT-R 50th Ann. Ed., 2020 GT-R Nismo, 2022 GT-R T-Spec. Do we need all of these? No, maybe 5 total, and that's enough.

About tires, they are irrelevant for the matter, as GT has generic sets of tires, and those tires are not "exclusive" to a specific model. Plus, any car with a different set of tires, will behave differently, without being a new "variant" or "trim level".
The AMG GT R is much different from the GT S, and it's not due to it's tires, but instead the whole setup and purpose of the car. It's similar to the normal GT-R vs GT-R Nismo, 458 Italia vs Speciale, etc. It's not a trim level or a tire option. Use the same tires on both, and they will still drive differently.

Speaking of options, plenty of cars have multiple options, from aero kits, to ceramic brakes, to different wheel styles and sizes, different engines, you name it. This does not mean we should get all this variations for every car. The Ford Mondeo range had engines that went from 115 PS to 240 PS, from petrol to diesel to even an hybrid version, 3 body styles, 2 or 3 trim levels, manual or automatic, etc. And this is without even mentioning different exterior/interior options, for example, the wheels. Surely they all feel different, does it mean we should get all? Following the reasoning behind the R35, we would have 50000 "different" models of cars in the game.

Anyways, nowadays the same exact car can drive differently with just the click of a button. Almost every car has different driving modes now, from Eco to Comfort to slippery conditions to Sport to ESC-off. Some 4WD cars even have the option to send 100% of the power to the rear wheels, and "drift modes" and whatever. Bumpy road mode is also a thing, and so is raising the ride height.
 
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About tires, they are irrelevant for the matter, as GT has generic sets of tires, and those tires are not "exclusive" to a specific model. Plus, any car with a different set of tires, will behave differently, without being a new "variant" or "trim level".
The game don't let you choose the stock tire, but that doesn't mean every car in the game use the same tire, nor they reflect the tire-controlled performance. There are two components that make up the mechanical grip, the tires, and the all the other things (I divided it into only two components because tire alone is about equal or more important than the others combined). And you cannot exactly separate those two components from the data you got by testing the real car. As a result, those components will be mashed into one when you make a game car, and any tire-related performance (pretty much everything, braking, lateral g, acceleration) is affected by the real car's tire.
The AMG GT R is much different from the GT S, and it's not due to it's tires, but instead the whole setup and purpose of the car. It's similar to the normal GT-R vs GT-R Nismo, 458 Italia vs Speciale, etc. It's not a trim level or a tire option. Use the same tires on both, and they will still drive differently.
No. In fact, a good portion of the difference is coming from the tire, especially in terms of lap times. I've driven both 991.1 GT3 RS and 991.2 GT3 RS on many tracks with both PSC2 R and regular PSC2. PSC2 R is almost always 1-3% faster than PSC2 regardless of the track layouts and mind that;
  1. 991.2 GT3 RS is also 1-3% faster than 991.1 GT3 RS on most tracks, but if you either swap the tire of 991.2 GT3 RS to regular PSC2 or swap the tire of 991.1 GT3 RS to PSC2 R, the difference become very minimal.
  2. The regular PSC2 is already 2-4% faster than low end UHP summer tires on most tracks (and most cars), and about 5% (compare to performance-oriented all seasons) or more faster than all season tires (10% difference is possible compare to eco-oriented or NVH-focused all season tires). Since the PSC2 R is not exactly the fastest tires out there (there are faster tires for 1 lap but only for 1 lap because they got a shorter usable timeframe, such as RE-05D), the gap could be bigger, even before considering the winter tires.
  3. 5-10% or more difference (in terms of lap time) is pretty much what you would expect when you're comparing a 300hp hatchback and 600hp moderately track focused road cars.
Speaking of options, plenty of cars have multiple options, from aero kits, to ceramic brakes, to different wheel styles and sizes, different engines, you name it. This does not mean we should get all this variations for every car. The Ford Mondeo range had engines that went from 115 PS to 240 PS, from petrol to diesel to even an hybrid version, 3 body styles, 2 or 3 trim levels, manual or automatic, etc. And this is without even mentioning different exterior/interior options, for example, the wheels. Surely they all feel different, does it mean we should get all? Following the reasoning behind the R35, we would have 50000 "different" models of cars in the game.
I've never said they should include all variants. I also want to have more unique cars, instead of many variants. But curb your enthusiasm. Like Yamauchi once said before, making a new car take pretty long time, unlike the variants. The task could be handled in parallel obviously by multiple modellers/programmers/testers/etc. But those new hires not only cost you more money, but also you can't exactly find/hire them as many/quickly as you want, even if you're ready to spend $100k * 5 years * 200 people. If your only requirement is something very easy to meet (such as a person who can make PS2-level models), then you can pretty much hire as many as you want. But if you want employees who can achieve a certain level of accuracy/details in their current pipeline of works, you cannot do that, at least not in a short timeframe, since skilled-enough workers aren't exactly a commodity with endless supply. I would say adding several hundreds of new unique cars could easily delay the game to PS6 or even PS7, which is obviously not a feasible option for PD.

And most of what you said makes almost no difference unlike the tire, at least in terms of 1 lap performance. First off, CCB or not, the performance of brake systems are not directly related to the stopping distance. Whether it's a 8 piston monobloc Brembo, or a full-fledged racing CCB, or a simple 1 piston simple brake, all of them have enough (thus same) stopping power on their first braking, and the actual stopping distance is about 90% dependant on tires.

Then what they do? They're there primarily because of the control/feeling and some performance difference which happens after the first lap. Most road cars, including many of somewhat sportier ones, start to fade severely if you time attack it for 3-5 laps in a row (there are rouhgly 3 different types of brake fade, and the pad fade comes first). That's because of the heat buildup, and the most effective way (thus every track regular do this as soon as they got the car) to combat this issue is using aggresive brake pad compounds which maintain a good level of coefficient of friction on higher temp. If you don't know what that is, they often generate very loud squeaking sound on braking (much louder than a bus or truck) and they typically eat up the rotors pretty fast (you need to change the rotors for every 1-3 pad changes). Due to those shortcomings, most manufacturers don't adopt such aggressive pads by default (even on somewhat sportier 400-600hp cars), unless they're pretty confident that most buyers would know that it is normal and don't mind it (usually only applicable to models/trims with small quantity, much smaller than regular M or AMG cars).

Same goes for aero kits. There are some road cars which has serious enough wings, canards, bottom, etc, but only a few (such as ACR). Most road cars with aero kits in fact generate a lift (or a very little amount of downforce) when you test the whole car on high speed. Manufacturer typically quote the number which they got from the testing of individual parts, but the car itself generate somewhere around 100-300kg of lift at high speed. So if you see a number ballpark of that area, they're often close to neutral (you should see numbers like 900kg@300kph for a car which has true downforce.). Close to neutral is still better than 100-300kg lift@300kph, but it doesn't make a huge difference on typical corners. Mind that there are very few 300kph corners on tracks around the world, and vast majority are in a range of 80-160kph. On that speed, you don't even get 1-3% weight of the car from the aero on most cars, which could be translated into 1-3% more lateral grips. Likewise, rim diameter/weight/etc could only affects the decimal part of the lap time, not second. On the other hand, better tires could easily generate 10+% more lateral grips, and make the car several seconds faster on tracks.
 
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The game don't let you choose the stock tire, but that doesn't mean every car in the game use the same tire, nor they reflect the tire-controlled performance. There are two components that make up the mechanical grip, the tires, and the all the other things (I divided it into only two components because tire alone is about equal or more important than the others combined). And you cannot exactly separate those two components from the data you got by testing the real car. As a result, those components will be mashed into one when you make a game car, and any tire-related performance (pretty much everything, braking, lateral g, acceleration) is affected by the real car's tire.
You do realise that this point alone, goes against the whole "more R35s" thing, right? If the tire makes the most difference between the same exact car, then we don't need all the subversions/MYs of that car in the game. In the game, even if they added individual tires per car, the generic tires would be there, so the moment you replace them for one of the generic compounds, this whole thing about the tires as a justification to add more variants of the same car, goes away.

No. In fact, a good portion of the difference is coming from the tire, especially in terms of lap times. I've driven both 991.1 GT3 RS and 991.2 GT3 RS on many tracks with both PSC2 R and regular PSC2. PSC2 R is almost always 1-3% faster than PSC2 regardless of the track layouts and mind that;
Did you actually read what I said? I mentioned the AMG GT R vs the AMG GT S, which are two completely different models from the same generation of the car, with very different power outputs and purposes. And between both cars, if you put equal tires in both cars, the AMG GT R will always be faster.

Then you procede to compare two GT3 RS, with the 991.2 being an upgrade of the 991.1, with minor difference in power. You yourself admitted that with equal tires, the difference will be minimal, which means that there's no point for very similar cars (subversions, variants, MY) to be added. Which means that you, yourself, went against your point of the varients being "very different". And, if I was to be asked as to which 991.2 version of the 911 should be added, it would either be the Turbo S or the GT2 RS, as those are actually completely different from the GT3 RS. If they are to add a newer GT3 RS, then they should just wait and give us the new model, which now even has an active rear wing.

So yes, tires will affect the performance of the car, obviously. Which means that, even the same exact car, will have different lap times if you change the tires, which means that we can't have cars/versions where the only thing that changes, is the tires.

I've never said they should include all variants. I also want to have more unique cars, instead of many variants. But curb your enthusiasm. Like Yamauchi once said before, making a new car take pretty long time, unlike the variants. The task could be handled in parallel obviously by multiple modellers/programmers/testers/etc. But those new hires not only cost you more money, but also you can't exactly find/hire them as many/quickly as you want, even if you're ready to spend $100k * 5 years * 200 people. If your only requirement is something very easy to meet (such as a person who can make PS2-level models), then you can pretty much hire as many as you want. But if you want employees who can achieve a certain level of accuracy/details in their current pipeline of works, you cannot do that, at least not in a short timeframe, since skilled-enough workers aren't exactly a commodity with endless supply. I would say adding several hundreds of new unique cars could easily delay the game to PS6 or even PS7, which is obviously not a feasible option for PD.
What? So, we reached the conclusion that:
-Tires affect the lap times of the same car
-Two similar cars (or a slightly updated version of the previous MY) will have very similar performance if they use the same exact tire
-The game has multiple tire compounds, that represent somewhat the real variants of tires

So, why do we need multiple versions, if they have similar (if not the exact same) performance once the variables are out of the question (tires, weather, driver, unmodified, milleage), if they look almost exactly the same, and have the exact same purpose, apart from being a different MY or regional version? Other than boosting the car count, there's actually no advantage to add those cars.

Btw, yes, people want as many unique cars as possible, and no, that doesn't mean the game would get delayed, has there is post launch content nowadays. What people want, is better decision making when choosing the cars to be modeled, and as many as the timeframe allows, and once the game releases, keep adding more content via updates and/or DLCs.

With the last chunks of text, you completely missed the point I made. So much that, in your mind, there are more differences between regional versions of the same GT-R, than between a base 125hp Mondeo with steel wheels and only the basic equipment, vs a Mondeo with 240hp, fully equipped interior, sportier looks, including alloy wheels, rear wing, body kit, sportier suspension. Which means that on paper, PD would have way more reasons to add multiple variants of a normal car (with huge interior, exterior and performance differences), than multiple MYs (so close together) for the R35.
 
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You do realise that this point alone, goes against the whole "more R35s" thing, right? If the tire makes the most difference between the same exact car, then we don't need all the subversions/MYs of that car in the game. In the game, even if they added individual tires per car, the generic tires would be there, so the moment you replace them for one of the generic compounds, this whole thing about the tires as a justification to add more variants of the same car, goes away.
No. It's just you don't understand what I'm saying. The perforamcne of the game car is affected by the performance of OE tires. Equip the same tire on slow car and fast car on Gran Turismo Sport, and try 100-0kph or 60-0kph braking. In real life, 100-0kph braking distance is about 95% determined by the performance of the tire. In other words, any cars with same tire should exhibit very similar stopping distance. In this game, they don't. Some cars will have significantly longer braking distance even though they got the same tire. That means, the performance of real tire is already affecting the performance parameters of the game car.
Did you actually read what I said? I mentioned the AMG GT R vs the AMG GT S, which are two completely different models from the same generation of the car, with very different power outputs and purposes. And between both cars, if you put equal tires in both cars, the AMG GT R will always be faster.
Did you actually read what I said? or did you forgot what you said before? You said "The AMG GT R is much different from the GT S, and it's not due to it's tires" and I said that is plain wrong. Most of the difference in terms of lap times between GT R and GT S is coming from the tire. Also, you seem to incapable of understanding that, the difference in lap time and the difference in drive feeling are completely separate things. Sometimes a newer variant have both, but sometimes only one of them, and sometimes none.

You seem to think that somewhat higher power is the most important deciding factor that define what is different. Well, they're not. It's only a small component which constitute the drive feeling, and there are many cars which basically felt like a same car, even though they have significantly more powerful engine. The weight and the tires are the most important thing for both handling and overall drive feeling, but other parts also comes into play.
With the last chunks of text, you completely missed the point I made. So much that, in your mind, there are more differences between regional versions of the same GT-R, than between a base 125hp Mondeo with steel wheels and only the basic equipment, vs a Mondeo with 240hp, fully equipped interior, sportier looks, including alloy wheels, rear wing, body kit, sportier suspension. Which means that on paper, PD would have way more reasons to add multiple variants of a normal car (with huge interior, exterior and performance differences), than multiple MYs (so close together) for the R35.
Because I don't need to answer all of your nonsenses. I'll repeat for the last time. I've never said they should include all variants, nor they should prioritize variants over unique cars, nor the difference between 14 R35 and 17 R35 is bigger than the difference between weaker Mondeo and stronger Mondeo. I've never driven any Mondeo, so I could only guess how much they're different, but I do know why there are very little variants for any econo-box. It's because they're econo boxes which are not many people want to drive in game.
 
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No. It's just you don't understand what I'm saying. The perforamcne of the game car is affected by the performance of OE tires. Equip the same tire on slow car and fast car on Gran Turismo Sport, and try 100-0kph or 60-0kph braking. In real life, 100-0kph braking distance is about 95% determined by the performance of the tire. In other words, any cars with same tire should exhibit very similar stopping distance. In this game, they don't. Some cars will have significantly longer braking distance even though they got the same tire. That means, the performance of real tire is already affecting the performance parameters of the game car.
And what does that have to do with "more variants of the same car"? Absolutely nothing.

Did you actually read what I said? or did you forgot what you said before? You said "The AMG GT R is much different from the GT S, and it's not due to it's tires" and I said that is plain wrong. Most of the difference in terms of lap times between GT R and GT S is coming from the tire. Also, you seem to incapable of understanding that, the difference in lap time and the difference in drive feeling are completely separate things. Sometimes a newer variant have both, but sometimes only one of them, and sometimes none.

You seem to think that somewhat higher power is the most important deciding factor that define what is different. Well, they're not. It's only a small component which constitute the drive feeling, and there are many cars which basically felt like a same car, even though they have significantly more powerful engine. The weight and the tires are the most important thing for both handling and overall drive feeling, but other parts also comes into play.
Yeah, I know what I said, and I said that without the tires as variable, if both models used the same exact tires, both cars would still be different, and would still have different lap times. Sorry (not really), but if you actually think that the only difference between AMG GT R and GT S is just the tires, then you are just wrong. Even without stickier rubber, the AMG GT R will still drive differently compared to the GT S version. If you add those tires to it, the difference increases, of course, as it would to any other car. Either way, the difference between both AMGs, goes way past the tires.

And I never said that power output was the more important factor, did I?

Because I don't need to answer all of your nonsenses. I'll repeat for the last time. I've never said they should include all variants, nor they should prioritize variants over unique cars, nor the difference between 14 R35 and 17 R35 is bigger than the difference between weaker Mondeo and stronger Mondeo. I've never driven any Mondeo, so I could only guess how much they're different, but I do know why there are very little variants for any econo-box. It's because they're econo boxes which are not many people want to drive in game.
So, what was your point in coming here in the first place speaking of "how different" the R35 variants are from each other? If those differences are important for the owners, it's irrelevant from a gaming perspective anyway, so what's the point of even mentioning it? Plus, you exaggerated the differences, claiming they are "huge", when they are not. The difference between an R35 and a 370Z is huge, the difference between 2011 R35 and 2014 R35 isn't.

The reason why duplicates were added in the first place is simple: fast way to boost the car count. Oh but they "feel different" in real life, sure, but not in the PS2-era games, so their point in the game is pretty much muted.

People are against them because they don't add anything new to the game, other than just sheer number. GT7 could reach 1000 cars with different variants and trim levels of existing cars, although they would face massive backlash.

As for the Mondeo, it was just an example, that just because one car has multiple variants, trim levels and whatever, and the owners of those cars know the difference, it doesn't mean that we should get multiple versions of it. This applies to every car, really.
 
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2,150
United Kingdom
London
Jonny-TWC
The MY09 (JP)/MY10 (US) sounds like the regional difference that GT did bloat in the PS3 era though, like pretty much all the S2000 duplicates.
I never did truly understand why PD had those duplications, especially if/ when the performance was identical; I always ended up buying whichever JDM model existed for each car and disregarded the rest.

I guess there's some subliminal satisfaction in being able to choose whichever model is most similar to your native market, which is understandable, to an extent. (I only ever really cared which side of the car the steering wheel was on, not much more beyond that, truth be told)
 
996
Indonesia
Indonesia
I never did truly understand why PD had those duplications, especially if/ when the performance was identical; I always ended up buying whichever JDM model existed for each car and disregarded the rest.

I guess there's some subliminal satisfaction in being able to choose whichever model is most similar to your native market, which is understandable, to an extent. (I only ever really cared which side of the car the steering wheel was on, not much more beyond that, truth be told)
I don't either for the PS3 era to merge every regional difference. But I'd like for some variations to get to know more about that car (like base version and hardcore version), but not too overboard (I'd think if the performance is identical like the native market, implement that in different way like let the player choose LHD or RHD of a car. or if different names like Miata or Eunos, put them in Badge option).

But I'd disapprove as well if people call every car with the same name as duplicates, which can be seen as acceptable view even if it's wrong. Like is your solution really overboard to disallow the game to add a separate racecar version of such after the road car one like R8 LMS to R8 or Supra GT500 to a Supra RZ?
To pad the numbers, no other reason.
I'd like for you to read @wasenhorn's explanation.
 
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1,000
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
If we think about, even a little bit, we realise that the biggest amount of duplicates came in the PS2-era games (on PS3 they were simply ported over), and in that gen of consoles, cars didn't even have interiors/interior view, so having cars with right or left hand drive was pointless. Nowadays, if on one side it makes sense since now there is cockpit view, on the other hand is a waste of resources to get mirrored interiors. Does any other game do this?

Then, the physics model was so basic, even though it was one of the best back then, that models with very small changes, the player won't notice any difference by driving it.
 
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LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,865
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
IMO, Gran Turismo physics isn't that accurate anyway to be able to tell the minute differences in trim levels (unless it's a big difference, like the base model vs NISMO for example). It might be interesting to someone who owns that specific car, but for the rest of the players we'd much rather have other unique cars.

If the game is called "Gran Turismo: GT-R Edition" then by all means include all variations. But I'd much rather have scope and variety than multiple slight variations of what is essentially the same car.
 
39,163
Australia
The Bronx
One thing about that. It’ll still be cool to measure the E30 vs E30 Evo and CSL model cars. As well as the Porsche 356s(coupe & speedster). Same as an R35 & R35 NISMO. It’s not so much the evolution of early model to late model variants, but to see those changes the manufacturer made between up-spec/light competition models.
 

kjb

1,489
United States
Cary, NC
mrbabyboyd
I think it would awesome if you could get different packages for the different trim levels and variants of different cars from the tuning shop
 
39,163
Australia
The Bronx
kjb
I think it would awesome if you could get different packages for the different trim levels and variants of different cars from the tuning shop
Speaking of which, I was going to post this in the tuning thread when I got this video notification, but will wait until we get more information about tuning from PD.



For sure with the Toyota/GR partnership, it would make sense to include such parts in the game. However, we got the GRMN GT86 in GTS. I‘d like factory parts as options, but we’ll see. PD do like to make complete models of customised cars from the factory and some dream models(PD collaboration Z NISMO and Opera Performance, etc. as examples).
 
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LeGeNd-1

Premium
6,865
Australia
Australia
GTP_LeGeNd-1
^High chance we'll get that bodykit. The last trailer shows the Supra having TRD parts.


Would be awesome if we could get non-OEM kits as well, but I think that's too much work for PD.
 
39,163
Australia
The Bronx
I think they could do it with select models. Similar to the Skyline and 350Z cars in the past. GR86 is the perfect new candidate. Maybe Supra as well. Might not work so much for the R35 GT-R, though there are special versions having been just released.

Again, we got the Celica TRD model or M-Sport(?) and that Celica Trial/Trail time attack(?) version. I guess having the parts saves time than making complete models. In the same way livery editor allows PD not to have to make 10 versions of the same race car. The GT community takes care of that.

Say, to derail the thread, that’d be interesting if players can share their custom cars. I mean, players can share a livery with just wheels changed. That’s a way to save some players from grinding spending lots of Cr. for parts. Hmm…