A little disheartened at the under 500 car roster

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39,162
Australia
The Bronx
It’s not Group X’s fault. PDjust need to push the button that allows them to be used with all cars. I remember the Real Circuit Tour allows the i3 and one of the Peugeot VGTs to be used. Makes no sense all Group X cars can’t be used in all the categories they fit.
 
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13,667
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
Let's hope any future historic tracks are done properly.
To be honest, for circuits like these, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort, perhaps Monza with the banking, the 'Ring with the Sudschleife or Old Spa would be worth it, but for the sake of a few reprofiled bends at Brands, spending the time to effectively remodel an entire circuit is a bit of a waste IMHO.
 
39,162
Australia
The Bronx
I know this thread is about cars, but the effort PD went into photographing the people at each track, they could “dress” the avatars in period correct wear. Even if just those classic tracks(Goodwood, Spa, Brands Hatch, Monza, Fuji, Nurb layouts) had vintage signage](wouldn’t have to be official brand names, could be the PD made up names) and people in period clothes, it may be enough to add to a classic feel.
 
4,242
Indonesia
Paint booth
FMecha_EXE
N/A
*a half-finished Brands Hatch 80s and Monza 80s. That was a seriously lazy job only changing the track itself and none of the surroundings.
Also, the Fuji 80's as it appears in GT4 should have been named "Fuji 90's (No Chicane)" given what the track it is (same with no-chicane versions of La Sarthe).
 
501
Italy
Italy
Under 500 at launch, sure.
By my counts, the final list for GT Sport has 205 all-new PS4 models (of which 17 were former Standard cars), and 133 returning Premium cars from GT5/6.

From what little I've seen of GT7 so far, we've likely got all 338 cars featured in Sport returning plus:
31 completely new-to-series cars so far (there'll be more than that, even on day one)
11 former Standards from GT past with glorious new models so far (no news yet on Midget II D-type or GT-One TS020 but we'll get there)
7 more returning Premium cars so far (It's odd that Toyota Aqua has already been confirmed while AZ-1 and LFA have not yet, but we'll get there)

That's only 387 out of (>420), there are 44 more cars at minimum that can be added to those three categories. There are 4 SEMA and 8 Pebble Beach winners that haven't yet appeared in GT, at least 6 VGT cars yet to be unveiled, around 165 GT5/6 Premiums that are good candidates for re-inclusion, some fitting into that launch list, and others doubtlessly to be included in updates over the next two or three or four years.
The car roster will grow to 500+. Easily. Just as the track variations roster (counting Reverses) will grow from 90+ to 110+. Easily.
600 cars and 110-120 tracks at the end of the game lifespan should be a realistic expectation?
 
1,000
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
Its why they need to scrap concept cars. They don't have the bandwidth to keep up their output, and need to be selective. Group X is a wasteland
Why scrap concept cars? If they are already in the game, there's no point scrapping them now, as the resources were already spent. Future VGTs aren't that many either, so their hit on the resources is minimal.

As for the Gr.X, is not a class in itself. With the PP system making a comeback, Gr.X should be abandoned, or turned into a specific race class.

Now, PP solves the problem with the road cars. Non-race oriented VGTs, should be treated as road cars, taking advantage of the PP system to place them accordingly.

Now for VGTs that are clearly race cars, they should divide them into classes (just like they should do for classic cars). So instead of throwing everything into the existing Gr.3 or Gr.1, like we see in GTS, they should create Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3 and Gr.4 for those VGTs. (they could be called Gr.1X, Gr.3X, etc). When you buy them, they have their factory specs, but they all have a tab showing their "race eligibility", where it displays what classes that VGT can be homologated into (Gr.3X, Gr.4X, etc). After buying the car, you can change the spec whenever you want, from unrestricted to restriced and vice-versa.

Gr.1X
-SRT Tomahawk VGT (Gr.1)
-Chaparral 2X VGT (maybe)
-McLaren VGT (Gr.1)
-Audi VGT (Gr.1)
-Peugeot L750R Hybrid VGT 2017
-Bugatti VGT (Gr.1)
-Lamborghini V12 VGT
-Mazda LM55 VGT (Gr.1)
-Hyundai N 2025 VGT (Gr.1)
-Jaguar VGT SV

Gr.2X
-SRT Tomahawk GTS-R VGT
-McLaren VGT
-Audi VGT (Gr.1)(downgraded from Gr.1 version)
-Audi E-Tron VGT
-Peugeot L750R Hybrid VGT 2017
-Bugatti VGT
-Lamborghini V12 VGT

Gr.3X (all converted into RWD only)
-SRT Tomahawk GTS-R VGT (possible only with bigger reduction in power and increase in weight)
-Fittipaldi EF7 VGT
-VW GTI VGT (Gr.3)
-VW GTI Supersport VGT
-Mercedes AMG VGT Racing Series
-BMW VGT
-Audi VGT (Gr.1) (RWD, proper BoP)
-Mini Clubman VGT
-Peugeot VGT Gr.3
-Toyota FT-1 VGT
-Nissan Concept 2020 VGT
-Subaru Viziv GT VGT
-Mitsubishi Concept XR-PHEV Evo VGT
-Lexus LF-LC GT VGT

Gr.4X
-Infiniti Concept VGT
-Fittipaldi EF7 VGT
-VW GTI Roadster VGT
-VW GTI Supersport VGT
-Mercedes AMG VGT Racing Series
-BMW VGT
-Mini Clubman VGT
-Nissan Concept 2020 VGT
-Subaru Viziv GT VGT
-Mitsubishi Concept XR-PHEV Evo VGT
-Daihatsu Copen RJ VGT

Excluded the Tomahawk X, the same for the Chaparral if it can't be balanced to meet Gr.1. Other exclusions were because they are pretty much road going vehicles. Not a definitive list by any means, PD could chose to be more or less restrictive. (None of the cars would count as duplicates, as they are all the same car, just with proper BoP)
 
21,297
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
To be honest, for circuits like these, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort, perhaps Monza with the banking, the 'Ring with the Sudschleife or Old Spa would be worth it, but for the sake of a few reprofiled bends at Brands, spending the time to effectively remodel an entire circuit is a bit of a waste IMHO.
Perhaps but I think if you are going to include it and list it in your menu as a historical track it should look the part, not just leave the modern surroundings from the present day and only adjust the tarmac itself.

Do it right or not all IMO.
 
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3,917
Australia
Australia
Why scrap concept cars? If they are already in the game, there's no point scrapping them now, as the resources were already spent. Future VGTs aren't that many either, so their hit on the resources is minimal.

As for the Gr.X, is not a class in itself. With the PP system making a comeback, Gr.X should be abandoned, or turned into a specific race class.

Now, PP solves the problem with the road cars. Non-race oriented VGTs, should be treated as road cars, taking advantage of the PP system to place them accordingly.

Now for VGTs that are clearly race cars, they should divide them into classes (just like they should do for classic cars). So instead of throwing everything into the existing Gr.3 or Gr.1, like we see in GTS, they should create Gr.1, Gr.2, Gr.3 and Gr.4 for those VGTs. (they could be called Gr.1X, Gr.3X, etc). When you buy them, they have their factory specs, but they all have a tab showing their "race eligibility", where it displays what classes that VGT can be homologated into (Gr.3X, Gr.4X, etc). After buying the car, you can change the spec whenever you want, from unrestricted to restriced and vice-versa.

Gr.1X
-SRT Tomahawk VGT (Gr.1)
-Chaparral 2X VGT (maybe)
-McLaren VGT (Gr.1)
-Audi VGT (Gr.1)
-Peugeot L750R Hybrid VGT 2017
-Bugatti VGT (Gr.1)
-Lamborghini V12 VGT
-Mazda LM55 VGT (Gr.1)
-Hyundai N 2025 VGT (Gr.1)
-Jaguar VGT SV

Gr.2X
-SRT Tomahawk GTS-R VGT
-McLaren VGT
-Audi VGT (Gr.1)(downgraded from Gr.1 version)
-Audi E-Tron VGT
-Peugeot L750R Hybrid VGT 2017
-Bugatti VGT
-Lamborghini V12 VGT

Gr.3X (all converted into RWD only)
-SRT Tomahawk GTS-R VGT (possible only with bigger reduction in power and increase in weight)
-Fittipaldi EF7 VGT
-VW GTI VGT (Gr.3)
-VW GTI Supersport VGT
-Mercedes AMG VGT Racing Series
-BMW VGT
-Audi VGT (Gr.1) (RWD, proper BoP)
-Mini Clubman VGT
-Peugeot VGT Gr.3
-Toyota FT-1 VGT
-Nissan Concept 2020 VGT
-Subaru Viziv GT VGT
-Mitsubishi Concept XR-PHEV Evo VGT
-Lexus LF-LC GT VGT

Gr.4X
-Infiniti Concept VGT
-Fittipaldi EF7 VGT
-VW GTI Roadster VGT
-VW GTI Supersport VGT
-Mercedes AMG VGT Racing Series
-BMW VGT
-Mini Clubman VGT
-Nissan Concept 2020 VGT
-Subaru Viziv GT VGT
-Mitsubishi Concept XR-PHEV Evo VGT
-Daihatsu Copen RJ VGT

Excluded the Tomahawk X, the same for the Chaparral if it can't be balanced to meet Gr.1. Other exclusions were because they are pretty much road going vehicles. Not a definitive list by any means, PD could chose to be more or less restrictive. (None of the cars would count as duplicates, as they are all the same car, just with proper BoP)

I wouldn't add any more of them. GT Sport had the biggest percentage of concept cars in the entire series - the balance is way off, and it served Yamauchis want to associate PD with manufacturers rather than serving the actual game.
 
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270
Perhaps but I think if you are going to include it and list it in your menu as a historical track it should look the part, not just leave the modern surroundings from the present day and only adjust the tarmac itself.

Do it right or not all IMO.
They're not literally historical, they're going to have modern machinery racing on them.

And I'd much prefer to have a chicaneless la sarthe circuit, say, where the surroundings weren't strictly as they were in the 80s, rather than not have it.
 
1,237
Australia
Sydney
snakebacon97
600 cars and 110-120 tracks at the end of the game lifespan should be a realistic expectation?
600 cars and 120 track variations... yeah, I can see that happening at some point in 2024, but I have no idea how long GT7's lifespan will be, nor what they'll want to save for GT8, if GT8 is to release before PS6 (which I assume it will).

We don't even know yet what cars and tracks GT7 will have at launch, other than 'everything Sport has, plus 90+ cars and 5+ locations'.

A realistic expectation is that it'll have enough stuff to keep us occupied, moreso if it gets as many regular content updates as Sport :D
 
21,297
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
They're not literally historical, they're going to have modern machinery racing on them.

And I'd much prefer to have a chicaneless la sarthe circuit, say, where the surroundings weren't strictly as they were in the 80s, rather than not have it.
Huh? Of course modern cars can drive it, I'm talking about the tracks in GT6 which were supposed to be 80s versions but the buildings and track surroundings were not changed from the modern version at all. A track is more than just the tarmac you're driving on.

Project CARS did it properly with their historical tracks, there is no excuse for doing half a job. Nobody is expecting 100% accuracy with not much reference data but at least make an effort.

Btw La Sarthe no chicanes is not presented as historical, just a fictional version of the modern track. So that's fine.
 
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Scaff

Moderator
26,604
United Kingdom
He/Him
ScaffUK
ScaffGTP
Project CARS did it properly with their historical tracks, there is no excuse for doing half a job. Nobody is expecting 100% accuracy with not much reference data but at least make an effort.
Modder's have managed to do it right, a business with the resources of PD have now excuse!
 
290
Taiwan
Taiwan
Modder's have managed to do it right, a business with the resources of PD have now excuse!
There is no need for reasons and excuses. I can no longer tolerate PD's possible low-level performance in any aspect. Now I immediately ask the FIA to impose a 100 million euro fine on SIE and require the mandatory closure of PD's global studios.





*The fine will be donated to the United Nations to help solve the hunger problem.
 
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1,000
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
I wouldn't add any more of them. GT Sport had the biggest percentage of concept cars in the entire series - the balance is way off, and it served Yamauchis want to associate PD with manufacturers rather than serving the actual game.
That's due to the VGTs being an exclusive thing to GT, they were given some priority. The ratio was much worse at launch for GTS, and after updates, it got much better. With GT7, assuming everything will be ported over, the ratio of production vs concept will improve.
 
122
Lucas180
They always add new cars after launch. Gt sport updated like, every month with new cars for a while. Launch list doesn't really matter..
 
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12,253
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
There is no need for reasons and excuses. I can no longer tolerate PD's possible low-level performance in any aspect. Now I immediately ask the FIA to impose a 100 million euro fine on SIE and require the mandatory closure of PD's global studios.





*The fine will be donated to the United Nations to help solve the hunger problem.
This is just silly. Polyphony should increase the price of each copy of Gran Turismo to $250 in order for us to better be able to reward them for their game development excellence.

The only thing that shouldn't be tolerated is people who refuse to fully support Polyphony and Gran Turismo at any cost. I propose that the FIA arrest these people and fire them out of a cannon into the sun.
 
21,297
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
y always add new cars after launch. Gt sport updated like, every month with new cars for a while. Launch list doesn't really matter..
It does if you play the game at launch. No good having a car arrive 6 months later if you've already finished the event you could have used it in.

Replaying events isn't the same as your first experience through the game.
 
996
Indonesia
Indonesia
They always add new cars after launch. Gt sport updated like, every month with new cars for a while. Launch list doesn't really matter..
I guess the lack of content at launch did hurt GT Sport's impression, though ofc reviews aren't fully objective.
 
39,162
Australia
The Bronx
That was mainly due to cars being no older than 2009 at Launch. When the Cobra was introduced, that no doubt began to have a positive effect on sales. At least getting people, who hadn’t bought the game, to have a second look.
 
1,000
Portugal
Setúbal
dacc10
It had nothing to do with cars not being older than 2009, it was the low amount of cars in the first place, and the variety (or lack of it) that they presented, with many of them just being Gr.3, Gr.4 or Gr.B versions of the same car. Add to that the lack of tuning, and it's the perfect storm (to throw away players).

And no, the introduction of the Shelby Cobra didn't make much difference. It could have changed the mind of a few, but not to the point of selling an extra million or so copies. It's not like the introduction of such car appears on the news (CNN and so on).

People should just take a look at the car list at launch, to figure out where the problem was. Mitsubishi had the VGT, and 4 versions of the Evo X. Audi had the TTS, TT Cup, R8 LMS, S1 Pikes Peak and R18. How can brands like Audi have only 1 road car in the game? And most other brands also had only 1 or 2 road cars.
 
270
Huh? Of course modern cars can drive it, I'm talking about the tracks in GT6 which were supposed to be 80s versions but the buildings and track surroundings were not changed from the modern version at all. A track is more than just the tarmac you're driving on.

Project CARS did it properly with their historical tracks, there is no excuse for doing half a job. Nobody is expecting 100% accuracy with not much reference data but at least make an effort.
There's not really any "proper" way of doing it. If Project Cars wants to also remodel the surroundings that's fine, if GT wants to offer the historical layout that's fine too.
 
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21,297
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
There's not really any "proper" way of doing it. If Project Cars wants to also remodel the surroundings that's fine, if GT wants to offer the historical layout that's fine too.
No, it isnt. If you're calling a track Brands Hatch 80s it shouldn't have trackside buildings that were built in the 2000s. It's inaccurate.

Might as well stick the Eifel Tower next to the Nurburgring if we're not going to be bothered about accurate track surroundings.
 
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No, it isnt. If you're calling a track Brands Hatch 80s it shouldn't have trackside buildings that were built in the 2000s. It's inaccurate.

Might as well stick the Eifel Tower next to the Nurburgring if we're not going to be bothered about accurate track surroundings.
If a circuit has had say a chicane added and a corner changed since the 80s and GT models two extra variants of it, one without the chicane, and one without the chicane and the corner revised to the 80s version, then there is no fundamental difference between them. Neither version of the layout needs to have the surroundings changed as well.
 
21,297
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
If a circuit has had say a chicane added and a corner changed since the 80s and GT models two extra variants of it, one without the chicane, and one without the chicane and the corner revised to the 80s version, then there is no fundamental difference between them. Neither version of the layout needs to have the surroundings changed as well.
That depends entirely on what you call them. If you call it 'Track (No Chicane)' then no, you don't need to change the surroundings. If you call it 'Track '80s' then yes, you really do. Because otherwise it's not the 80s track. It's a mashup of 80s layout and modern surroundings...which is not as advertised.

I'm not sure why this is being argued. PD themselves did it in GT4 with the historic Fuji layouts, they just didn't bother with the GT6 tracks.







If you call the track Brands Hatch 80s, you make it look like it did in the 80s in every way. It's quite simple.
 
4,242
Indonesia
Paint booth
FMecha_EXE
N/A
Noticed that the current discussion has now been derailed into tracks issue - but I don't know what I could say that remains within OP's original intended topic.