A little rant on how poor this "simulation" is.

[the Interceptor]

No wheel. and yes Pro.

A poor simulation. Played with a controller. I rest my case.

How can you reply to mutiple people at once?

You can switch on the multi-quote by clicking onto the double speech balloon on the lower right corner in all of the posts you want to quote. Then hit "quote" on the last one, and you post will contain all the marked ones.

 

[Viperguy324]

A poor simulation. Played with a controller. I rest my case.

You can switch on the multi-quote by clicking onto the double speech balloon on the lower right corner in all of the posts you want to quote. Then hit "quote" on the last one, and you post will contain all the marked ones.

Thank you. where in Germany are you?

 

[speedyK]

I would just like to comment on the realism too.

Plenty of people have made statements about it without offering any basis for their assertions, so I will say what my background is:

I have track experience at various European tracks, including F1 tracks Hockenheim and Dijon.

I drive a Lotus Exige Cup with a Bemani supercharger giving around 270bhp. I run it on Yokohama A048 semi-slicks. Before this, my track car was an Opel Speedster (VX220 in the UK – which was built by Lotus using basically the same chassis as the Elise and Exige).

My Exige at Hockenheim (International racing licence course):

My Exige at Dijon:

My Exige at an airfield day in Germany:

My Speedster in the mountains (sorry not got any track pics online at the mo):

But here is a link to a video of it being tortured at Hockenheim. You can hear the tyres are at the limit – both front and back – but it still grips!:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8848772317061800982&q=speedyK&total=14&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

The Speedster was absolutely stock – including the stock road Bridgestone tyres 175 at the front and 225 rear (as is the Elise S2). But even that gripped better than the Elise in GT5 Prologue!

I thought the simulation of the Speedster and the Elise 111R in GT4 had fairly realistic grip (as did the Peugeot 106GTI and Nissan 300ZX TwinTurbo – my other fun cars) – but I have to agree with viperguy324 that the grip is astonishigly lacking in GT5 Prologue.

Having tried the Elise 111R on the Lotus Event (London) (all aids off, pro mode), I find it ridiculous how easily it loses both the front and back end – my Speedster on road tyres was far better.

And it is not that I am a novice gamer – I've been driving sims for years. Nor is it that I am struggling with a controller. I am using a G25 set-up in my "Lotus" cockpit:

–

Basically, a 1:1 copy of the real car, so I believe that I am in a position to compare the sim with reality better than most. Frankly, I have to say that I am really quite disappointed at the difference between the real car and the sim.

Take it from me as the driver of a real one: the lack of grip on the GT5 Prologue Lotus is not realistic!

 

[waynz]

Something no-one has pointed out to this guy.

You complain about the penalities and how if you cut a corner or hit someone you get a 5 second power-cut penality which is a good thing, it teaches you to pass properly and not wall-ride & cut corners.

If a F1 driver cut a corner there will be no doubt the stewards all over him giving him a drive through.

So, I assume you do plently of track days etc. So do you cut the corners? Ride the barriers? Smash into the other cars? Probably not. So why are you compaining?

Mods please close this thread its becoming pointless by the minute.

 

[the Interceptor]

@ speedyK: point taken. And if viper would have brought up his issue in the same manner, I'm sure reactions would have been a lot different. And still, if this truly is an issue, this can be fixed with future updates or even in GT5.

And the rant on the penalty system is correct. On two occasions in Prologue today, I was driving on the racing line without doing anything wrong, when an AI car came back from the grass, rammed me off the track, and I got the penalty for ramming him. Surely, there are penalties that are correct, but there are way too many that aren't.

 

[red7]

gt5p (remember its prologue)!, by console standards is not a POOR simulation. Compare it to some pc sims which I won't even touch with a 10ft pole here and yes it will seem lacking perhaps.

The default game if you will is arcade hands down. But once you wade through all the aids and turn off that abs! GT shows its physics off nicely IMO. Not hardcore, not lfs or netkar, but can be a real challange.

PRO physics + no ABS = suprisingly sim like experience ......for a console

 

[Viperguy324]

SpeedyK, Thank you. I was going to call me wife and have her take a pic to prove i'm not talking out of my rear.

Do you have any contacts at AP Racing? Or know anyone that can put me in touch with a 355mm6p BBK from AP?

 

[speedyK]

Viper, 'Fraid not.

 

[Viperguy324]

Something no-one has pointed out to this guy.

You complain about the penalities and how if you cut a corner or hit someone you get a 5 second power-cut penality which is a good thing, it teaches you to pass properly and not wall-ride & cut corners.

If a F1 driver cut a corner there will be no doubt the stewards all over him giving him a drive through.

So, I assume you do plently of track days etc. So do you cut the corners? Ride the barriers? Smash into the other cars? Probably not. So why are you compaining?

Mods please close this thread its becoming pointless by the minute.

I'm not cutting corners buddy. And i'm not running rails... never said I did. Have you played the game? Nothing like braking because of traffic at the chicane to have a car ram you from behind giving you a 5 sec penalty.

 

[spyrrari]

man!!!...I realy enjoyed this thread and have to say viperguy stood his ground very well....lol(although i dont agree with your initial post viperguy!!but all the other members said what i would have so i just waited and red the story as it whent on....hahaha..lol.)!!!!
but than i read this:No wheel. and yes Pro...!!!!!
and as i cannot imagine anyone playing this game using a controller having any idea what it actually "feels" like to handle these fantastic cars in this fantastic game....i think you are full of bs!.....
sorry man, but i too have raced some cars in real life,and been driving now for 20years,and i find gran turismo the best simulator ever made(from day one!!!).....
i some how think that if you would have used a wheel instead of a controller,you would deffenately not have made this comment!!!....
so..thats that!
spyrrari.

 

[Viperguy324]

man!!!...I realy enjoyed this thread and have to say viperguy stood his ground very well....lol(although i dont agree with your initial post viperguy!!but all the other members said what i would have so i just waited and red the story as it whent on....hahaha..lol.)!!!!
but than i read this:No wheel. and yes Pro...!!!!!
and as i cannot imagine anyone playing this game using a controller having any idea what it actually "feels" like to handle these fantastic cars in this fantastic game....i think you are full of bs!.....
sorry man, but i too have raced some cars in real life,and been driving now for 20years,and i find gran turismo the best simulator ever made(from day one!!!).....
i some how think that if you would have used a wheel instead of a controller,you would deffenately not have made this comment!!!....
so..thats that!
spyrrari.

So i'm full of BS becuase I use a controller?

ok then ...

I'm off to bed ... good night folks!

 

[spyrrari]

@viper...no,beceause what you are saying about the realism of the tyres and stuff.......i can imagine you are tyred but you can still read ...or are you asleep,or where allready dreaming........!@

 

[Kryz11]

Someone Close this thread. Anyone agree?
This will turn out to be hate thread very soon, I think its already starting to be.

 

[spyrrari]

ah comon are you scared that adults are having adiscussion about something ???...nobody is calling eachother names or such dude....ralax.

 

[Kryz11]

ah comon are you scared that adults are having adiscussion about something ???...nobody is calling eachother names or such dude....ralax.

👍

*calms down, Grabs life by its throat*

better?

Well I mean, its just its going way too off topic.. and I agree with you too, I think that Viper guy is over stating his ideas.

 

[MowTin]

When we get the Top Gear test track we can compare real lap times versus game lap times. Too much grip and lap times would be too fast. Too little grip and lap times would be too slow.

With lap times we'll be able to quantify the disparity instead of just using our "feelings."

I'll add that even if I owned a ferrari I probably wouldn't know how it is to drive a Ferrari at the insanely reckless speeds I do in GT5.

 

[Azuremen]

fixed for you

Fixed what exactly?

 

[JackB]

This is a great contribution to the thread. Thanks. I hope to see more like this in the future.

Now that's laugh out loud funny. Thanks I needed that!

 

[Viperguy324]

Fixed what exactly?

The thread title.

 

[daan]

So, what does the "viper" part of your name refer to?

 

[Scaff]

I have to say that based on my own experiences I don't believe that the issue is with the tyres, the grip levels offered by the tyres has changed only slightly between GT4 and GT5. On a type by type basis lateral G on cornering and rough 0-100-0 times seem to be very similar between the two releases.

What has changed between the two is how the physics engine deals with these grip levels, lets be honest unless forced, oversteer was very difficult to induce in GT. Particularly in regard to power on oversteer, in addition throttle and brake sensitivity had a much lower effect that in the real world in GT4. Personally I think that these two areas (with pro physics on) have moved much closer to how they should be with GT5.

The overall feel I get from the cars in GT5 in these areas is now much closer to that of my own experience in a wide range of cars (the Integra in particular feels very, very accurate) and of the experience in terms of how the widely rated sims react (and by this I'm referring to the likes of Live For Speed, Gran Prix Legends and Richard Burns Rally).

speedyK and Viperguy324 may disagree with me on the above, but I would ask them both to keep in mind that a large part of real world driving (particularly in regard to the likes of the Elise, etc) is feel, something that no sim can recreate. Not stepping over the limit is more about feeling that limit and edge in a car like the Elsie than anything else, so the physics in GT5 could well be excellent, but without that feel in the seat of your pants its a lot harder to judge. I would also advise both to never go near Enthusia Professional Racing.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Southend Rage]

Viper, you are a n00b, if it's too hard for you, play Need For Speed, the reason the tires feel like wood is because this is REAL feel, not those nfs ice skate tires, also guys, I use a control, but I use both analogue sticks for smoothness. Also, in real life you would get a penalty for cutting even if was a much slower car, if your faster, overtaking normally should be easy anyway.


Now i'm off for the wekend, so don't bother replying directly to me.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

So the problem is that you can't change the tyres? So this option is not there yet. What's the big deal? You accuse the game of being unrealistic because cars which would normally use slicks don't use slicks here? How is that unrealistic exactly?

 

[Patrik]

No wheel. and yes Pro.

ok, then you have NO right at all to complain. I don't use a wheel either (because my DFP is ****ed up) and i should be honest and say I've used standard physics for a while now because pro was not even fun with the controller.. The pro physics seems realistic to me tough but I can't be sure until I have a G25 or DFGT. And how can you be so stupid saying it is not a simulation???

 

[Sturdy]

Viper, you are a n00b...

I wouldn't say so to be honest, I think this thread has managed to not turn into an insult fest, despite the odd bit of name calling which Viper has quite rightly just ignored.

It's especially interesting to hear SpeedyK's thoughts. Scaff, do you have a link to perhaps a bit more of a report on your investigations into grip levels and tyre types compared to real life?

I'm aware that I'm no authority on the following subject, having not driven a Corvette in real life, especially not with the same carefree abandon as in GT5: P, but putting that car on N3s (as is claimed to be the most accurate I believe?) seems to make it exceptionally tail happy, first gear is rendered pretty much useless.

It just seem unlikely that a road going car with what will inevitably be massively wide rear tyres can light up the rear wheels so easily with so little throttle.

Unfortunately I don't have a great deal of experience, I've done a few laps in a sample of high performance cars (for a track experience day) and have been a race marshall before for about a year, so I've been around and been for rides in quite a few 'proper' sports cars.

Another example, I've been taken out in a few different TVRs, and I guess (not bought it yet) that the Tuscan is going to also be pretty wild on N3s through the low gears, whereas the Tuscan I went out in (stock road car) was able to deal with a planted throttle without lighting up the rear tyres (not so much in first gear admittedly )

I'm more than happy to be enlightened on the matter, so any research you've done, given your wealth of experience, I'd be very interested to read

 

[craste]

Jump into a ferrari and drive it at about a continuous 30 MPH and see if you can induce some oversteer by swinging the car around - you shouldn't be able to i reckon.

I suppose to correctly judge the amount of tyre slip it would be good to have a contunuous cricle which you drive around and then the car would slip at the same time as the real car would - but I'm sure this type of test would of already being caried out at PD when developing the physics engine and settings for each car.

 

[danjama]

what is up with this elitist attitude from people with wheels? It is making me want to spend less time around here. It's like my toys better than yours crap that nobody cares about. I have used a controller since the first GT all that time ago, and with prologue i have used it to complete every challenge with mostly golds and some silvers (pro physics, traction control off or on 1, no other aids and i have learned to handle many of the rwd beasts), save for the car specific S class races while i save the money, so surely the controller is up to the challenge or am i just super human?! Ok fair enough the wheel may offer a better feel like you are driving a real car but i am sure that i can recreate someones lap times with my controller, and probably better them. So i just wish people would stop with the superior crap i'm sure we dont need to see examples.

Back to the thread, i mostle disagree with the OP. I am very impressed with the game like most, whether the tyres are modelled right or not is a big deal, but i know that the differences between the tyres is correct and that's enough. After all it is not our creation so when we buy it we also have to accept another mans interpretation of things. I love the bright sunny day feel on tracks and the glare as you leave a tunnel. I love the feeling of being pinned against the bank at Daytona at 200mph, and i love getting sideways. The one area i would say needs retouching, is the penalty area, in particular, sometimes it is very difficult to get penalised, like if a car breaks suddenly and you rear end it, no penalty, but then 2 seconds later a car merely brushes you and you have wasted 5minutes working your way up. There is no consistency. The same goes with barrier impacts, it chooses when it wants to hurt you, and its usually when your doing well. Then again it is something we have all got past, probably because we dont go on the track looking to crash into things. Anyway, that is really my only complaint. The cars are brilliant, and i am just wishing we had the nurb to drive my collection around on.

 

[roflator]

what is up with this elitist attitude from people with wheels?

I suppose it has to do with simulation aspect. If one wants to judge how near reality the gt5p physics simulation is then one needs to use wheel controller(as car is driven with wheel not pad). The sixaxis is nowhere near the "real" driving experience. As for gaming, sixaxis is perfectly fine. It's a fun game both ways.

that i can recreate someones lap times with my controller, and probably better them

As for recreating times, why not try arcade time trial london track with gt-r 07. I have the top time there(for now). Driven with dfp.

edit. At least what I tried with sixaxis there seems to be somekind of assists for turning/acceleration/braking to make it more manageable for sixaxis drivers. Top times with sixaxis and wheel are pretty near each other. At least I think it's more upto the skills of the driver rather than controller used. Though using wheel for me at least is much more fun and makes playing feel like driving and not so much like a console game.

 

[Greycap]

It's not really about that a wheel is superior for lap times, it's about the fact that the guy firmly believes the physics are wrong even though his only connection to the game is a couple of buttons with no feel. The physics simply can't be judged thorougly that way, it's a lot more like remote controlling than driving. I bet nobody in their right minds would play the PC sims with a keyboard and then say they handle badly yet many people use the Sixaxis and complain like there was no tomorrow.

 

[danjama]

Sure if its for fun

What's you time?