A note about brakes and ABS in GT5

  • Thread starter wook
  • 73 comments
  • 30,524 views
W

wook

81
To everyone complaining or just expressing difficulty using the brakes without ABS (or even WITH), please try adjusting the brake bias.

FIRSTLY

Every car starts at 6 on the front and 6 on the rear, creating a 50/50 split brake bias.

No normal car will ever have that much on the rear. Generally speaking a 60/40 ratio is a good starting point. This will make the brakes A LOT easier to use. You won't whip out the arse end so much if you adjust it.


SECOND

It seems every car has the same brakes in this game. a measure of 6 on the brake setting on one car is the same as 6 on any other. (At least from what I've seen/experienced).

This is of course also terrible. 6 or higher might be fine for a race car, but its TERRIBLE for most road cars. If you use 6/6 on a road car you WILL lock the wheels EASILY. Its not so bad on a race car, but even then you need to lower the rear brake pressure to get the nominal bias.



So. in some sort of conclusion, if you don't like the brakes or are just having trouble, try lowering the pressures and adjusting them to create a more realistic bias.

5/3, 4/2 or 3/1 work well for road cars (depending on what tyres and how much grip the car has)

Race cars can get away with more like 6/4.


- wook (Mr bothered about so many "brakes suck" and "I can't drive without ABS" posts)
 
Good post. 👍

5 / 3 is my default setting for brakes, and seems to work really well for most cars, but I use a load-cell. Lightweight MR cars tend to still be a touch twitchy, so 4 / 2 might be a better option there.

I agree that "6" is the reserve of the stickier tyres / downforce on non-sticky tyres.

For reference:

6 / 4 is 10 total, 60.0% front.
5 / 3 is 8 total, 62.5% front.
4 / 2 is 6 total, 66.6% front.
3 / 1 is 4 total, 75.0% front.

So, generally, selecting an overall lower-pressure pairing also results in a more "stable" brake bias setting anyway.
Ideally we'd be able to set the maximum brake pressure (sum of the two numbers) separately from the bias setting, but this is how PD have chosen to do things. I don't like the loss in "brake steer", for example, that using a lower power pair can result in (and upping the rear power usually goes way too far in the other direction).
 
No pre-set bias works for every car and every track. Some cars need to rotate more for certain tracks, some tracks you want certain cars to rotate less.

2 cents.
 
Rocket Punch
No pre-set bias works for every car and every track. Some cars need to rotate more for certain tracks, some tracks you want certain cars to rotate less.

2 cents.
Click to expand...

Of course, this is a very important concept for all car settings. I just meant that 5 / 3 is my starting point, and I will often adjust on the fly thanks to the quick-settings-changey thingy. It made some of the special events trickier, as I had to try to adjust the settings whilst putting in a time, and it was picky as to whether it would remember or not.

If 5 / 3 is too pushy into certain corners, changing it to 5 / 4 gives an overall power only one unit (12.5%, relatively) higher but the bias shifts from 62.5% front to 55.5% front. That's an ~11% reduction (relatively) and is often then too twitchy. That's not surprising, given the rear power increases by a whopping 33%, though. Basically, the system, as-is, is very flawed.
 
Griffith500
Of course, this is a very important concept for all car settings. I just meant that 5 / 3 is my starting point, and I will often adjust on the fly thanks to the quick-settings-changey thingy. It made some of the special events trickier, as I had to try to adjust the settings whilst putting in a time, and it was picky as to whether it would remember or not.

If 5 / 3 is too pushy into certain corners, changing it to 5 / 4 gives an overall power only one unit (12.5%, relatively) higher but the bias shifts from 62.5% front to 55.5% front. That's an ~11% reduction (relatively) and is often then too twitchy. That's not surprising, given the rear power increases by a whopping 33%, though. Basically, the system, as-is, is very flawed.
Click to expand...

LOL, sorry I was relying to OP's post, but your post beat me to it.
 
ACtually with regard to any car manufactured in the last 12 or so years that has ABS as standard, the ABS system pretty much manages the brake bias for the street car.

Now the idea that every car has driver selectable brake-bias as standard is one of the red flags I see when I seriously consider the physics engine in our favourite game.

I would rather see the real stock adjustments available on real cars represented.

Every car does in fact have the ability to have its alignment set without any special suspension mods.

Many cars also have a height adjustment as part of the stock suspension setup.

The more I spend just lapping with GT5 the more I am comning to the conclusion that the physsics engine is a great sandbox, but only represents very basic chassis behaviour in a prototypical way on a per make/model basis.

In short boys and girls, GT5 is a great driving simulator but is not a great simulaiton of any of the cars represented.

It may as well be modelled like with 3 generic chassis layouts and leave it at that - the unique nuances of a 2004 C5 Z06 vs a 2010 Mustang GT is totally lost when you have the ability to manual adjust brake bias but no stock height adjustment on the C5 Z06 or normal alignment adjustments on the Mustang.

Don't get me wrong, I love GT5, it's just that it is a sandbox that we should enjoy as such (and hope for more premium clothes for our generic chassis :lol:)
 
Thank you for the info. Could you give me more info on things say comparing FR cars like corvettes that may have more horsepower and a variety of tires. If the car is FF and normal then the 6/4 maybe or what? What would the Rear wheel drive cars be tuned to if they were just stock say 300HP and soft or medium. I am not sure what to do for different types of cars before and after boosting HP. Thanks.
 
khronikos
Thank you for the info. Could you give me more info on things say comparing FR cars like corvettes that may have more horsepower and a variety of tires. If the car is FF and normal then the 6/4 maybe or what? What would the Rear wheel drive cars be tuned to if they were just stock say 300HP and soft or medium. I am not sure what to do for different types of cars before and after boosting HP. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Because the ABS even when present is not correctly modelling brake bias, a simple test is to take the car to a bumpy track with a series of bumps on a down hill to a sharp braking zone - now take the car with its default 5/5 and ABS set to 2 and do a series of white knuckle panic late brake dives into the turn and note how little rear brake force you need to set to eliminate the tendancy for the rear to overtake the front. Start with an 8/5 split and then work from there.

Folks should not under estimate the power of the front brakes of any modern car. Pretty much every modern car can overpower the front tyres in a panic stop - you just dont want the back to behave as if you yanked up the handbrake as you skirt with the limts of adhesion.

Once you have a happy rear end, try reducing the front brake proportioanl force to a levekl where you can comfortably drop the ABS to 1 or even zero and still make maniac stops without pirouetting. Dont be surprised if you end up reducing the front brakes to a point where you cant stop as hard as you imagined you could in the first place.

I am satisfied with an 8/5 with ABS on 2 for most modern cars I am tinkering with. I go as low as 4/1 when I have 0 ABS on a 60's or 70's drum brake suicide machine :lol:

otago
I thought it just prevents the wheels from being locked
Click to expand...

The ABS system is already managing the slip of individual wheels by way a proportioinal valve system, it was a natural progression to include the regular bias management in the system as well. Think about it, ABS when fully funtioning is in fact a 4 wheel independant brake bias management system.
 
Good post, I was going to make one as well, but I haven't seen all the "brakes suck" threads like you have.

It's common sense for anyone who knows or tracks real cars.
 
Rocket Punch
No pre-set bias works for every car and every track. Some cars need to rotate more for certain tracks, some tracks you want certain cars to rotate less.

2 cents.
Click to expand...


Of course, but what i mentioned is a starting point to make the cars easier to handle under brakes. 👍

Good replies here guys. Nice to see other people agreeing and helping discuss a good and relevant topic! :)
 
A nice topic really.

I used to turn off all ABS back in GT5P - and I had little (yet controllable) problem;

But now in the full GT5, I believe the system is broken:

- even for a ~100HP Nissan March approaching a corner at ~130-150kmh, the entire car spins towards the right under heavy braking (~70-90% of braking force). If you used only 50% of braking force, you should be OK even without ABS. But again, it's not realistic.

- as soon as most of us here set ABS to 1, we have no problem anymore. Even a twitchy Lotus Elise is very stable under heavy braking when it approaches turn-1 of Fuji Speedway after the very long straight

- conclusion: even for the purists, there is no shame in turning (at least some) ABS on. The physics engine is flawed anyway.
 
In GT4 my Ford GT would just spin out under braking sometimes even in a straight line. Took me a while scratching my head but then I changed the brakes more to the front and problem solved. It was like a whole different car.

I had the same issue in GT5 driving the Ford GT with ABS off. I hit the brake and spun. I used the IRA on the wheel bumped the front up to 6 rear down to 4 and no more problems.
 
I don't have any issues with brakes when I have the brakes set up realistically.

Lighter cars need less braking power, and the braking balance needs to be adjusted to suit the weighting of the car.

Once I do that, any car is manageable under braking.

Its so much more rewarding to drive fast without ABS controlling your brakes.


In all race cars I turn it off, and in any older cars. I really only use it in licences and specials where I can't adjust it to make the brakes work! lol
 
Why am I seeing people in the tuning forum put more rear bias on MR cars? That isn't right, is it? I'm talking about people putting say 3FR 8R on a Gallardo for example. You never see a car with bigger rear brakes even if it has more weight in the back like most MR cars... more rear end braking makes the back want to overtake the front under heavy braking.

Yet somehow these people are finding better results doing just that?!
 
wook
I don't have any issues with brakes when I have the brakes set up realistically.
Click to expand...

What this is supposed to mean? Every car must have brakes set "realistically" without any tuning.

Or you think PD messed up every single car in game on purpose, just to have fan?
 
Great thread! I'll try some of those settings. I never could understand why setting ABS from 1 to 0 made the car impossible to stop.

And some of you seem to know an extraordinary amount about cars.

Now if someone could explain what changes as you increase the ABS level?
 
Fusion
Why am I seeing people in the tuning forum put more rear bias on MR cars? That isn't right, is it? I'm talking about people putting say 3FR 8R on a Gallardo for example. You never see a car with bigger rear brakes even if it has more weight in the back like most MR cars... more rear end braking makes the back want to overtake the front under heavy braking.

Yet somehow these people are finding better results doing just that?!
Click to expand...

With ABS on you can get away with quite a lot of brake mismanagment ;)
Not sure this is the case in those tuning forums though...
 
I find ABS on and off to be totally different.

With ABS off, you get more weight transfer effects, so the rear end will move around quite a bit, even if the rears don't lock.
With ABS on, you can slam on the brakes most of time and not feel a thing. Seems like some stability management is active with ABS on
Although you will lose it occasionally.

For example I tried 3:1, no ABS on the Shelby Cobra and an old Thunderbird musclecar with the big spoiler on the back, and the rear end will squirm about. Although maybe the LSD effects come into play here. Turn ABS on and you can hammer it and not worry, and you stop faster.

If your finding the AI too slow, turn off ABS and it becomes a whole lot more challanging :)

Don't forget about engine braking as well, that tends to change things, if you left foot brake with throttle still in play then the rear end stays put.
 
Last edited:
Fusion
Why am I seeing people in the tuning forum put more rear bias on MR cars? That isn't right, is it? I'm talking about people putting say 3FR 8R on a Gallardo for example. You never see a car with bigger rear brakes even if it has more weight in the back like most MR cars... more rear end braking makes the back want to overtake the front under heavy braking.

Yet somehow these people are finding better results doing just that?!
Click to expand...


The same for FF cars as well...

Theoretically, it's better to put more brake bias at the front for an FF, but I've tried a 5/7 setting on a Civic Type-R. I could feel the car understeer less, making the turn-in maneuver a lot easier

Anyway for an MR like Gallardo or Elise or NSX-R, I normally use 4/4 or 6/6 if my tyres allow
 
I always drive with 10/10. If I don't need that much brake force i simply don't brake as much. But it's nice to have available. ABS 2.
 
I'm pretty sure very few of us actually have cars that do not have ABS. One thing to remember, in GT5 when you turn off the ABS that brake bias you see which for all cars is some how set at 5/5 goes into effect. While it's fine for a well balanced racing machine, it's a headache for normal cars.

Rule of thumb, always dial down the rear at least 2 below the front. Majority of cars can drive with a 5/3 split in brake bias and stop fairly well without ABS. FF depending on the car, might benefit from either even split or rear bias braking.

PD seemed to have forgotten to give cars their actual bias ratio when you turn off ABS, I hope they address this, not liking the fact that all cars somehow come with a 50/50 split for braking.

Someone complained about brake upgrades, GT5 needs to simulate brake fade for brake upgrades to make sense. Brake kits don't make your car stop faster, they just prevent brake fade. Unless your car is driving on drum brakes...no wonder that Skyline 2000GT-B stops so horribly. Not sure why every car automatically came with a brake controller, they should have made you purchase that yourself, and let the cars ride on their actual brake bias they come with.
 
SavageEvil
Not sure why every car automatically came with a brake controller, they should have made you purchase that yourself, and let the cars ride on their actual brake bias they come with.
Click to expand...

This.

I'm really annoyed that we don't have a starting point for each car to work off or at least leave as is if we want a realistic experience. You literally have to test out every single car with different settings now, even if you want to leave it stock!

Driving simulator? Heh.
 
Fusion
This.

I'm really annoyed that we don't have a starting point for each car to work off or at least leave as is if we want a realistic experience. You literally have to test out every single car with different settings now, even if you want to leave it stock!

Driving simulator? Heh.
Click to expand...

To be honest, just about no car come with the ability to turn off the ABS(some do but it's smoke and mirrors) in real life anyway. Some cars, low powered cars have no ABS at all, but they are usually lightweight and underpowered. My 2004 Corolla had zero ABS, I could lock the tires at will...braking without ABS is all about feel, kind of hard to get that when GT5 doesn't relay that through the brake pedal. They rely on quick judders in the FFB wheel and sound to cue you in. Works as long as you keep the music off so you can get used to driving without ABS on. I have driven the McLaren F1 Stealth without ABS, it's a little unstable when you have to scrub off speed quickly but it's not ridiculous like FM2, where no ABS= instant lock up. Why is there no brake pressure adjustment?

Simulator, these games attempt to simulate things, like how pretty cars can look and weather, driving that is still a work in progress. They are getting there, one day...
 
wook
try lowering the pressures and adjusting them to create a more realistic bias.
Click to expand...

I'm at work so can't really check this in the game, so I'm just going to throw it out there.

Does the game expressly say that the numbers are the brake strength?

I was always under the impression that it is simply a brake balance controller, in so far as the different numbers just allowed different ratios to be employed. :dopey:

What I'm saying is, I was under the impression that the numbers just represented the ratio, so effectively a setting of 4/4 would be the same balance as 5/5, without any other difference.

I'm assuming I'm wrong in my assumptions then...?
 
Someone explain to me why there is adjustable ABS in this game and not in real life. I thought it was either you have it or you don't, on or off. Why is the default setting at 1? are the higher settings not realistic and act more of an aid to help turn the car for noobies?
 
The problem with braking is mainly that when I press my brake pedal for a half, it's fully pressed in-game...
Logitech G25.
 

Latest Posts

Back