A note about brakes and ABS in GT5

[Big Ron]

...and every single one of them has got 0.2 degrees of rear toe in, 0 degrees of front toe..

And where is the problem? Just change it. It is a standard setting, which you also get in other simulations.

 

[Bigbazz]

The X-1 has completely different toe, not all the cars have that setting, though most do a lot of my cars have been pre setup nicely, and it really isnt hard to tweak.

 

[shirakawaa]

And where is the problem? Just change it. It is a standard setting, which you also get in other simulations.

You can't change those settings unless you fit racing suspensions (though in real life toe and small camber adjustments are always possible. On the other hand, it's almost never possible to change the brake distribution on a modern stock, untouched car). What this implies is that cars in their stock form have wrong wheel alignment values, therefore they do not handle like they are supposed to do, although admitedly the difference would not be very large.
Still, I find odd and questionable that players have to change settings to make stock cars handle as originally intended.

The X-1 has completely different toe, not all the cars have that setting, though most do a lot of my cars have been pre setup nicely, and it really isnt hard to tweak.

That must be one of the very few exceptions in the game.
All cars I tried (a few dozens) had this oddity.

 

[RC45]

Wheel alignment is messed up too on most (if not all) cars in the game, in which they have got no or very minimal camber (in the case of race cars), and every single one of them has got 0.2 degrees of rear toe in, 0 degrees of front toe. Off-topic argument here probably, but I think it's worth to bring public attention to that issue, which isn't much dissimilar than the messed up brake distribution and other related issues (among which the lack of fade simulation).

I can live without the brake fade modelling - in fact that is ok. But the part I have a HUGE problem with (and thi sis true for ALL games) is the fact they do not allow BASIC alignment for stock cars.

All cars can have their wheel alignment adjusted - the job may not be easy, and may involve shims on the suspension mount points and the range of adjustment might be minimal, but even the cheapest oldest Golg Diesel can have its wheels aligned.

The notion that all cars have stupid suspension setups until you drop 15 grand on a race setup is moronic.

This, coupled with the sheer laziness of the developers (Turn10, PD, EA etc etc) to not research and setup the basic cars to their factory median configs is also very telling. They are really not "simulating" anything

 

[BWX]

Sorry but that's not correct.

While static weight distribution may be toward the rear more in RR and MR it does not stay that way when you hit the brakes.

Weight transfer will alway dictate a transfer of weight forwards, and while the 911 has often (model dependent) run equal size rotors front and rear, the same is not true of most MR cars.

Even with equal size rotor you may still not have equal brake force sent to the front and back, as the brake bias set on the car will almost always be towards the front.

More brake force to the rear of a car is a recipe for disaster, get the backs locking up first and you have a car that will be facing the wrong way rather quickly.

So while the balance will be different in RR and MR cars, the front will still be doing more work than the front.


Regards

Scaff

Notice I said
"COMPARED to FF and FR cars"...
and "the rear axle does more braking COMPARATIVELY"

What I said does not contradict what you are saying. MR and RR cars usually have more rear bias compred to FF and FR.. not more rear bias than front bias, MR and RR still have front bias. The ratio is different than most FF and MR cars. Read it again, I said "comared to" twice. Anyway. I'm typing on a PS3 controller. Trying to compress sentences into as small as possible. Not good when trying to be precise about a subject I guess. :-/

 

[niky]

I can live without the brake fade modelling - in fact that is ok. But the part I have a HUGE problem with (and thi sis true for ALL games) is the fact they do not allow BASIC alignment for stock cars.

While I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment (for goodness sakes, allow at least 1-2 degrees camber adjustment stock!), let's stick to the brake topic. Makes the thread more useful to newbies who may be scanning through it.

 

[BKViper]

Great post.
I typically start with 6-4 on race cars, 5-3 on modern road cars, 4-2 on classic cars, with ABS always set to 1.
Of course, some cars require a little more finesse.

 

[CoolColJ]

I find 4:3 or 4:2 ok for sports tyres and heavier cars down to 3:1 for lighter cars and less grippy tyres
Just watch your tyre indicator and you'll know when it's right

Cars definitely slide more if try and trail brake with ABS off.
With ABS set to 5-10 you can trail brake deep into turns and keep control but you lose braking power

4:3 works perfect for the Veyron I was testing today on High Speed Ring right after I won it
The brakes won't lock until your under 50kph
On this setting with my squash ball mod under the DFGT brake pedal, the rears will lock a faction later after the fronts do.
IF you brake on the slope of the turn after the straight, the wheels near the top of the slope lock up first - nice touch
The unweighted side of the car

 

[RC45]

While I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment (for goodness sakes, allow at least 1-2 degrees camber adjustment stock!), let's stick to the brake topic. Makes the thread more useful to newbies who may be scanning through it.

Sorry abotu that - didnt mean toget carried away, but having modelled some physics (and am still working on a mod for rFactor) for sim cars, I really get POed at the lazy stock setups in games

This topic is for brakes though

 

[niky]

Sorry abotu that - didnt mean toget carried away, but having modelled some physics (and am still working on a mod for rFactor) for sim cars, I really get POed at the lazy stock setups in games

This topic is for brakes though

👍 Thanks.

 

[7HO]

In addition to adjusting brake bias I have a massive piece of firm foam wedged behind the pedal on my Driving Force Pro to make the pedal much firmer and give the pedal more realistic feel, as I press the pedal it gets firmer.

 

[khronikos]

This thread has been very helpful. A Toe and Camber thread would also be helpful imo I am sure there is already one somewhere. I am just not sure where I should be at with that stuff on all the different cars.

 

[7HO]

Something I forgot to mention in my previous post.

Someone asked about the 0 setting earlier. The piece of foam I have behind my pedal does not allow the pedal to be completely depressed but even with a setting of 0 I can get the brakes to lock, when setting up a car I actually start with a F0/R0 or a F1/R0 setting and adjust up as needed to obtain good brake feel, I adjust the bias until i get great brake balance when cornering at high and low speed, this is with ABS off.

This is one of the reasons I think that test tracks are essential and need to be added as soon as possible. Telemetry with features such as tyre temp readouts and better replays that allowed you to identify tuning issues would also be great additions.

 

[DaSixSixOne]

I've been using a suggestion from the GT5mania.com site since Prologue days and it works well for me.

I go thru the procedure below, find out what brake setting starts to cause the wheels to lockup w/o ABS on, then set ABS to 1 and go racing. This varies by car/tire/track so I test brake settings pretty often.

Using this, I've noticed that, yes, the brakes are more sensitive in GT5 than Prologue and that my brake settings usually end up around a 2 or 3 up front and a 0 or 1 in rear for comfort/sport tires and a few clicks higher on racing slicks.

http://gt5mania.com/tuning-guide/brake-balance/

To find out which brake balance setting provides the best braking performance you can try out the following procedure.

Set the ABS to 0 so that it does not interrupt the brake testing by locking up the wheels. Now the better tires you use the more initial brake pressure you should set. If you are using S3 tires front and rear, set the front and rear brake pressure to 10.

The next thing you would need to do is drive at full speed down a straight and slam the brakes. Hear the wheels if they lock up. If they do, then you have too much brake pressure. Reduce the front and rear brake pressure till you do not hear the wheels locking up. Next increase the front brake pressure or decrease the rear and keep tyring either till you feel the car stopping more quickly.

Hope this helps!