A Review - By A Racing Game Fan

[Wolfe]

Nice review, morpheus. As others have said, I'm worried to hear some of the things you've mentioned about the game, primarily the only-marginal improvement in physics. For me, even Forza 2 isn't realistic enough, so to hear someone say that GT5 is worse isn't good news (although I have to say that after the disappointment of GT4 I wasn't expecting much from GT5 anyway).

In any case, from your brief introduction I can tell you'll fit in just fine here. I would recommend checking out some of the other forums; there's more to this site than just Gran Turismo, and I'm sure you'll find plenty of threads to contribute to. 👍

Oh, and +1 on OutRun and Lotus Challenge being awesome games.

 

[Kryz11]

The videos look good but one thing you've forgotten. The Forza 2 demo only had arcade mode physics not Sim physics so it is not a fair comparison.
The only way we are really going to settle this is next Xmas when the full GT5 comes out LOL.
Can you bothered to keep this thread alive for another year :-D
Anyway, dinner and Eastenders are calling and after that time for some racing.

yeah true, but even whenever you watch sim modes in forza 2 drifts, they still dont compare to GT5P.

 

[gt3killer]

I think playing with a controller does not do GT5P any justice. Playing the with the G25, I can tell the phyics have improved greatly and feels more natural then Forza 2. Also now that the clutch is supported it makes driving in GT much more exciting. There is no way I can play with the a Dual Shock3 for this game

 

[phantasm]

So maybe never having played either GT4 or GT5P with at least rumble has affected my view of the game.

I appreciate the detailed review you've given, but as a hardcore gamer especially a racer, why you play without a wheel as your primary controller boggles my mind. I found a HUGE difference even in GT3 and 4 when i switched from the DS to the DFP wheel. And I will definitely be upgrading to a G25 when GT5P is released in NA in the new year. I really think that physics comments should be based on wheel use only as the unrealistic ability to go from lock to lock on a controller in a fraction of a second can skew your opinion of the game's physics vs real life. I found the physics in the demo were GREATLY improved from GT4, and from some very reliable sources on this site (very consistent and grounded members) it has improved even further on the prologue release.

If i can ask, are you on full professional mode with no aids? I don't know if it's the same as the demo but there are 2 places in the options to achieve full pro mode. First is in the pre-race menu, but there is another bunch of settings in the "Options" menu of the main screen. I found tweaking those options had a MAJOR impact on the demo physics even with full pro-mode and no aids on the race menu.

In any regard, welcome to GTP... it is THE BEST Gran Turismo fan site on the web and there are lots of knowledgeable and quality racing fans here. (Can't wait til we can all battle it out online!!)

 

[morpheus9394]

I think playing with a controller does not do GT5P any justice. Playing the with the G25, I can tell the phyics have improved greatly and feels more natural then Forza 2. Also now that the clutch is supported it makes driving in GT much more exciting. There is no way I can play with the a Dual Shock3 for this game

That means I have to have ANOTHER wheel to go with my MS Wheel. The wife is going to kill me for cluttering up the living room

 

[morpheus9394]

I appreciate the detailed review you've given, but as a hardcore gamer especially a racer, why you play without a wheel as your primary controller boggles my mind. I found a HUGE difference even in GT3 and 4 when i switched from the DS to the DFP wheel. And I will definitely be upgrading to a G25 when GT5P is released in NA in the new year. I really think that physics comments should be based on wheel use only as the unrealistic ability to go from lock to lock on a controller in a fraction of a second can skew your opinion of the game's physics vs real life. I found the physics in the demo were GREATLY improved from GT4, and from some very reliable sources on this site (very consistent and grounded members) it has improved even further on the demo.

If i can ask, are you on full professional mode with no aids? I don't know if it's the same as the demo but there are 2 places in the options to achieve full pro mode. First is in the pre-race menu, but there is another bunch of settings in the "Options" menu of the main screen. I found tweaking those options had a MAJOR impact on the demo physics even with full pro-mode and no aids on the race menu.

In any regard, welcome to GTP... it is THE BEST Gran Turismo fan site on the web and there are lots of knowledgeable and quality racing fans here. (Can't wait til we can all battle it out online!!)

Thanks for the info and advice. I knew about the professional mode in the prerace setup but I didn't know about the one in the options. I will try that but from the sounds of things I won't notice a big difference till a try the game with a wheel.
Why can't someone make a wheel that works on 360, PS3 and PC.
If I get another wheel (already have the MS wheel for 360) the wife will kill me. I might have to hid it for a while

 

[phantasm]

Thanks for the info and advice. I knew about the professional mode in the prerace setup but I didn't know about the one in the options. I will try that but from the sounds of things I won't notice a big difference till a try the game with a wheel.
Why can't someone make a wheel that works on 360, PS3 and PC.
If I get another wheel (already have the MS wheel for 360) the wife will kill me. I might have to hid it for a while

No worries... that's what we're here to do I have the same problem when it comes to getting the G25... can't even tell my better half what it costs, she'd kill me The G25 works on the PC and PS3 though... sell the MS one, from what i hear it's not that good anyway... the G25 would be the Ferrari of console wheels whereas the MS one is like a Ford Focus in comparison

 

[Dave A]

I can relate to that, there's no G25 for me, it's too expensive and I already have the DFP she says. And we're not even married.

 

[Wolfe]

I appreciate the detailed review you've given, but as a hardcore gamer especially a racer, why you play without a wheel as your primary controller boggles my mind. I found a HUGE difference even in GT3 and 4 when i switched from the DS to the DFP wheel. And I will definitely be upgrading to a G25 when GT5P is released in NA in the new year. I really think that physics comments should be based on wheel use only as the unrealistic ability to go from lock to lock on a controller in a fraction of a second can skew your opinion of the game's physics vs real life. I found the physics in the demo were GREATLY improved from GT4, and from some very reliable sources on this site (very consistent and grounded members) it has improved even further on the prologue release.

No matter what control scheme you use, it's always the same physics engine, no matter what game. Also, the only racing game I can think of off the top of my head where you can go from lock-to-lock in a fraction of a second with a controller is Live for Speed (that may not even be true anymore, I haven't tried recently). I think it could be said that every console racing game is programmed so that the game "second-guesses" your steering input when using a controller -- you can't steer any faster than the game will let you.

I've never noticed any difference in the physics in GT3, GT4, or Enthusia between using the DS2 and using the DFP/G25. The flaws are all the same, they're just sometimes a bit easier to avoid. As such, I rarely use my G25 with the PS2 -- leaning back in my chair and relaxing with the DualShock is so much easier than setting up the wheel.

 

[morpheus9394]

No matter what control scheme you use, it's always the same physics engine, no matter what game. Also, the only racing game I can think of off the top of my head where you can go from lock-to-lock in a fraction of a second with a controller is Live for Speed (that may not even be true anymore, I haven't tried recently). I think it could be said that every console racing game is programmed so that the game "second-guesses" your steering input when using a controller -- you can't steer any faster than the game will let you.

I've never noticed any difference in the physics in GT3, GT4, or Enthusia between using the DS2 and using the DFP/G25. The flaws are all the same, they're just sometimes a bit easier to avoid. As such, I rarely use my G25 with the PS2 -- leaning back in my chair and relaxing with the DualShock is so much easier than setting up the wheel.

That's the problem I have as well. It is just easier to break out the controller and play, than it is the setup the wheel, get the paddles setup, arrange the chair at the right height etc etc. I barely using my MS wheel but I kept it as it was a freebie from a mate who works at HMV.
I might just have to buy a G25 on "trial" test it on the PC and PS3 and return it.....then again if it is as good as everyone says I might end up keeping it and having to face the wife's nagging.
OH the life of a mature gamer

 

[Lain]

I can relate to that, there's no G25 for me, it's too expensive and I already have the DFP she says. And we're not even married.

Heh, whipped much?

Anywho, very nice review. I disagree with the AI, I think it's headed in the right direction. As for the sounds, I don't really care all that much. *GASP!*

 

[J-PaP]

i can safely assure you that a g25 is very different to using the sixaxis. they are very different and the g25 really does make the game.

i read through some posts and you are only up to having the evo 9. basically all the cars prior to the 9 are low powered vehicles that are easy to handle. like i said earlier you need to drive the more expensive cars like the viper, z06, ferraris to name a few.

was a good point mentioned by someone regarding forza. the cars drift and slide without any proper physics in that you just turn and slide. they are a bit too happy to get sideways and too easy to hold that way

 

[gt3killer]

No matter what control scheme you use, it's always the same physics engine, no matter what game. Also, the only racing game I can think of off the top of my head where you can go from lock-to-lock in a fraction of a second with a controller is Live for Speed (that may not even be true anymore, I haven't tried recently). I think it could be said that every console racing game is programmed so that the game "second-guesses" your steering input when using a controller -- you can't steer any faster than the game will let you.

I've never noticed any difference in the physics in GT3, GT4, or Enthusia between using the DS2 and using the DFP/G25. The flaws are all the same, they're just sometimes a bit easier to avoid. As such, I rarely use my G25 with the PS2 -- leaning back in my chair and relaxing with the DualShock is so much easier than setting up the wheel.

I understand where your coming from and I'm not disargreeing that the physics engine is different, but to me it feels very different on the steering wheel then the controller. You can't the kind of feedback you get from the logitech wheels from a dual shock controller. Feeling the force feedback from the steering wheel offers nice information that heightens the experience for me. When I try to play GT3, 4 and 5 prologue with a controller I just can't do it.

 

[Dave A]

That's all the difference is, the feel of using a wheel and the force feedback. As Wolfe said, your using the same physics engine regardless of which peripheral you use, sure most people who are into driving games will probably prefer the feel of using a wheel, but the physics engine is the same.

 

[DarthTurismo]

The fastest car I have driven in GT5P so far was a 280BHP EVO 9 and with all the driving aids off and in the professional mode the car just felt too easy to drive.

u should probably reserve yr final judgement until u take out the top end cars..... the vette, viper, nsx, f430 with no aids on.... only then will u appreciate the improved physics and the on the edge feeling of holding a slide etc.... the evo IS easy to drive... and actually it pretty much replicates how it is in real life.... point and squirt!!

I thk you'll appreciate the rear wheel drives

AI: yr right improved but still not quite aggresive enough..
I for one would prefer the old days of standing starts and qualifying the pole.. more exciting in my eyes... if u start in 12th place and have to catch 1st place u know they are going to be driving much slower yeah???

sound: everything bar tyre sounds for me are great.. (especially the v8 now) but i agree that the tyre sounds are way too loud and agressive??? seems to be set up on the amount of lock you put on yr steering regardless of speed?? seems odd to me that even at 40kph you put full lock on and sounds like yr screaming off the road... (especially in car) that really needs tweaking in my eyes.. but the rest is fine by me!

 

[Kryz11]

u should probably reserve yr final judgement until u take out the top end cars..... the vette, viper, nsx, f430 with no aids on.... only then will u appreciate the improved physics and the on the edge feeling of holding a slide etc.... the evo IS easy to drive... and actually it pretty much replicates how it is in real life.... point and squirt!!

I thk you'll appreciate the rear wheel drives

AI: yr right improved but still not quite aggresive enough..
I for one would prefer the old days of standing starts and qualifying the pole.. more exciting in my eyes... if u start in 12th place and have to catch 1st place u know they are going to be driving much slower yeah???

sound: everything bar tyre sounds for me are great.. (especially the v8 now) but i agree that the tyre sounds are way too loud and agressive??? seems to be set up on the amount of lock you put on yr steering regardless of speed?? seems odd to me that even at 40kph you put full lock on and sounds like yr screaming off the road... (especially in car) that really needs tweaking in my eyes.. but the rest is fine by me!

yeah, the AI need a soft side too, once you need to pass so many cars within 2 or 3 laps...

but for those endurance races AI should be stronger.. but then again, you make one littile mistake and those 5 hours of driving could end up with last place..
so if you want some challenge.. Online is the answer

 

[Wolfe]

was a good point mentioned by someone regarding forza. the cars drift and slide without any proper physics in that you just turn and slide. they are a bit too happy to get sideways and too easy to hold that way

This is somewhat true, but on the other hand, anyone who's used to GT4's physics is likely to underestimate the degree to which real-world cars oversteer.

 

[BlackZ28]

great review! I agree, i will say the jaggies are a problem. When all 16 cars are on screen there is noticeable slowdown. No tire marks? C'mon, thats such a basic need in a racing game. oh well, great game and the best out there!
I wish there was a close chase cam too.. i love watching the beautiful car!

 

[Jay]

I can't really agree with most of your review (I wont go into details as I don't have time, or effort), but I respect your opinion. I urge you to try It with the Logitech G25 if you can.

To others that are worried about game now, I would try it first (If you can) before concerning yourself too much.

Saying that I don't think the game is perfect either.

 

[morpheus9394]

I probably won't have the time to unlocke the end up cars in GT5P till the weekend but as a test I fired up my GT4 and did a few races in a Factory Viper, a 850bhp Skyline and a 500bhp RX-7 and I was very impressed with the physics.
I forgot how do good GT4 was and I can't imagine GT5 being worse than GT4.
Looks like I am going to have to invest in a G25 if I want to get the best out of the game.
Well at least I have plenty of time to save up for it
After the weekend I will post back with my updated thoughts, impressions on the physics and AI.
Thanks for all your comments. Keep them coming.

 

[Zer0]

Something does not compute.


Gran Turismo 5 Prologue "Whats Changed" Interview:

 

[morpheus9394]

Something does not compute.


Gran Turismo 5 Prologue "Whats Changed" Interview:

What's does not compute? It is the part of the interview where they said Forza 2 felt flat compared to GT5P?
I personally would have to disagree at the moment but I am hoping to get a dualshock 3 today, stock willing and I will then be to compare again.
I think any racing game needs, at the very least, rumble to give life to the cars.

 

[Zer0]

I am hoping to get a dualshock 3 today, stock willing and I will then be to compare again.
I think any racing game needs, at the very least, rumble to give life to the cars.

You're a hardcore racing fan and don't have a DFP at least?

Forget pad vibration, GT with a FF 900º wheel is a world apart.

 

[amar212]

OMG.

He FIRST noticed "that grass looks much bettter". I puked.

 

[highlightshadow]

I agree that GT5-P looks amazing .... they always did

I wish they would focus more on the other elements of the game like the AI, sound and tyre smoke/sound/marks

Watching race replays where the cars are wailing around the corners lighting up the tyres and seeing no marks on the track has always felt horribly wrong for me.

So many other games do this .... why not GT series....

Sound and tyres have always been the bug-bear for me in the whole series .... i adore the games generally but wish they could make cars sound good.... Even if the sound becomes almost fake in a way would be better than the endless parade of lawnmower engines and cookie cutter gearbox noise

Simbin's line of GT simulators always sounded great .... gearboxes has that whine ... exhausts popped, engines sounded raw and mechanical and felt like the sound was echoing back off the walls of the track etc

A company basically owned and run by sony developing a flagship title surely should be getting outdone like this time and time again

I still have GT5 p on order and should be playing this weekend and will buy final game .... but i am hoping PD will make the final game worthy

 

[BreakerOhio]

sorry to say but i disagree on much of your review. i'm not going to bother writing up an essay on it as i'm just jumping on the pc for a few minutes between races on gt5p.

in bullet point

• physics - vastly improved. arcade mode doesn't feel realistic at all especially with driving the f430 (the car i'm driving at this moment in the game) but in simulation mode with the aids off the car is definitely lively. the nsx i drove earlier in the game was very lively aswell and needed careful throttle control to keep straight.
• ai - vastly improved as well. countless times the ai tries to block you or when they know they are beaten you are given room but by no means do they make it a charity. there are at times the cars feel like they are just following a line but thats because if they were in those situations it would make them majorly overzealous. also the times the cars do plow into you it is when they are at a point they cant brake any harder to avoid the accident. watch the reply you will notice they are hard on the brakes. ive taken a video infact that demonstrates the ai will go to a complete stop to avoid you if they can. also with the ai making mistakes.. have you played the game much? because i have seen a fair few times the ai veer off the road and make mistakes
• sounds.. are you playing this game with headphones? i've got my game connected to a 5.1 channel surround and in compariosn to gt4 this game #$^% on it sound wise
• graphics: people have seen the screenshots. the game looks amazing and yes it does have some jaggies occasionally but its leaps and bounds an improvement even over the demo. all i wish the game did have though was tyre marks

👍 Good bullet points.

I'm quoting my response from another post that would fit here...

"Simple answers if the clutch works and if there are 16 cars on the track are concrete answers, but discussions about physics and AI behaviors are very subjective without the credibility to back it up without showing videos. How do we know if the person that played the game appreciates how a rear wheel drive car is suppose to drive??
"
When someone says the audio is crap...questions linger...what kind of audio equipment did they use? What kind of hearing sensitivity do they have?

When someone says the Physics is no good compared to Forza, that may imply that the person playing the game is more happy with the Forza phyics than the GT physics, and not willing to adapt to GT physics. I've played Forza 2, its fun I admit, but the dirving physics is there, but it's not intuitive, it's easy turn in and gas and get oversteer, and countersteer to correct. It's simplicity makes it easy to mimic these driving characteristics of cars, but for some doesn't deliver the same reward and satisfaction and difficulty level that some seek. That is where the opinions are subjective.

I try to read as much reviews as I can, but at the same time keep in mind that these are other people's thougths on it. Which I enjoy reading and learning more about. I collect all the information I can, but I really have to validate those claims myself personally by playing the game to see why it was given a certain claim.

I am posting this thought to encourage others not to over speculate or be disspointed because of bad or negative reviews. Vise Versa for positive reviews too.

I can assure you that the clutch on the G25 works, and there are 16 cars on the track. The background music can be turned off during play, etc...

Keep the reviews coming, and keep an open mind for yourself so you don't spoil the game for yourself by being influenced by anyone's negative responses.

I'm still blown away with this game. It's vastly improved with the compatibility of the Logitech G25.

 

[BreakerOhio]

sorry to say but i disagree on much of your review. i'm not going to bother writing up an essay on it as i'm just jumping on the pc for a few minutes between races on gt5p.

in bullet point

• physics - vastly improved. arcade mode doesn't feel realistic at all especially with driving the f430 (the car i'm driving at this moment in the game) but in simulation mode with the aids off the car is definitely lively. the nsx i drove earlier in the game was very lively aswell and needed careful throttle control to keep straight.
• ai - vastly improved as well. countless times the ai tries to block you or when they know they are beaten you are given room but by no means do they make it a charity. there are at times the cars feel like they are just following a line but thats because if they were in those situations it would make them majorly overzealous. also the times the cars do plow into you it is when they are at a point they cant brake any harder to avoid the accident. watch the reply you will notice they are hard on the brakes. ive taken a video infact that demonstrates the ai will go to a complete stop to avoid you if they can. also with the ai making mistakes.. have you played the game much? because i have seen a fair few times the ai veer off the road and make mistakes
• sounds.. are you playing this game with headphones? i've got my game connected to a 5.1 channel surround and in compariosn to gt4 this game #$^% on it sound wise
• graphics: people have seen the screenshots. the game looks amazing and yes it does have some jaggies occasionally but its leaps and bounds an improvement even over the demo. all i wish the game did have though was tyre marks

👍 Good bullet points.

I'm quoting my response from another post that would fit here...

"Simple answers if the clutch works and if there are 16 cars on the track are concrete answers, but discussions about physics and AI behaviors are very subjective without the credibility to back it up without showing videos. How do we know if the person that played the game appreciates how a rear wheel drive car is suppose to drive??
"
When someone says the audio is crap...questions linger...what kind of audio equipment did they use? What kind of hearing sensitivity do they have?

When someone says the Physics is no good compared to Forza, that may imply that the person playing the game is more happy with the Forza phyics than the GT physics, and not willing to adapt to GT physics. I've played Forza 2, its fun I admit, but the dirving physics is there, but it's not intuitive, it's easy turn in and gas and get oversteer, and countersteer to correct. It's simplicity makes it easy to mimic these driving characteristics of cars, but for some doesn't deliver the same reward and satisfaction and difficulty level that some seek. That is where the opinions are subjective. And based on this added background information is where I claim GT5P Physics are better than Forza 2 physics...get it?
Credit goes to the author of this thead to begin that way with giving background information about their experience to reviel to the readers where they are drawing their comparisions.

I try to read as much reviews as I can, but at the same time keep in mind that these are other people's thougths on it. Which I enjoy reading and learning more about. I collect all the information I can, but I really have to validate those claims myself personally by playing the game to see why it was given a certain claim.

I am posting this thought to encourage others not to over speculate or be disspointed because of bad or negative reviews. Vise Versa for positive reviews too.

I can assure you that the clutch on the G25 works, and there are 16 cars on the track. The background music can be turned off during play, etc...

Keep the reviews coming, and keep an open mind for yourself so you don't spoil the game for yourself by being influenced by anyone's negative responses.

I'm still blown away with this game. It's vastly improved with the compatibility of the Logitech G25.

 

[morpheus9394]

You're a hardcore racing fan and don't have a DFP at least?

Forget pad vibration, GT with a FF 900º wheel is a world apart.

I am hardcore gamer with a Wife, 2 kids under 4yrs old, a mortgage a job......you get the picture
I got an MS wheel which was a freebie from a mate and I used to have a MS Sidewinder wheel for PC but these days I just don't have the time to dedicate hours and hours on one game. But after spending some time on this forums it sounds like a G25 is an essential purchase if I really want to enjoy the game.
Hhhmmm, now to think of a way of getting it passed the wife
Btw - I just picked up a dualshock 3 controller during my lunchtime at an import shop down Tottemham court road, £57. Cheaper on ebay I know but delivery will be an issue this close to Xmas.
I am keen to see how Motorstorm plays with rumble as that is one game that really needs rumble.

 

[J-PaP]

sounds like you have very high expectations for the ds3. i'm yet to use one yet but can't imagine a "vibration" is going to really add much to the game and make the car all that different to drive.

 

[morpheus9394]

It really depends on the game.
For example in Forza 2 you can feel when you are pushing the car to hard and starting to lose grip by the way the controller rumbles. Rumble is obviously no match for proper force feedback but in the right hands it can enhance the overall experience.
Some people are not fussed by rumble or the lack of rumble but others, like me, love it.
Anyway as soon as I get home from work I will try it and and I will post with my impressions.