!Absolutely gotta have the rewind feature!

[IsmokeGT]

Great point, lol but he is a little off meaning this is for NON RACE ONLY meaning there would have been nobody in the plane in the 1st place

Get the point man, IRL you cant rewind!

 

[Smoke&Slide]

A Mercedes CLK Black Series is tail happy & the Ford GT in GT5P moves around when in the bends although not more than the Mercedes.

 

[Devedander]

What relevance does rewind have to GT5? What makes it a more important feature than hookers? Grid had rewind, grid had cars, GTA had hookers, GTA had cars.

Seems about as relevant as rewind to me.

Rewind has learning potential pertaining to racing/driving. Killing hookers with machine guns and rockets does not.

BTW the gay marriage thing... it's called an analogy. It's the process of drawing attention to a detail by showing similarties with another different subject. Note different subject.

Rewind has nothing to do with being gay or getting married. But it has everything to do with illogical arguments, people afraid of how something that other people do behind closed doors in their own homes will effect them when it won't effect them at all and arguing that that how it's always been is right and it's wrong to go against how it's always been.

 

[IsmokeGT]

*counting minutes until thread gets locked*

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

Gran Turismo: The real driving simulator is as the name applies a driving simulator. It is supposed to help you develop driving skills that could be used in real life. And let’s compare this to some of the world’s most realistic simulators. The flying simulators produced by aircraft companies like boeing/airbus. When you want to train your pilots for certain procedures they have to follow when a failure occurs, you want them to learn as many and in as little time as possible. So they do not simulate a real flight if they are training for failures or certain procedures.

Imagine this: You want to train in an engine #1 fire, then an engine #2 fire and then an APU fire. They could do this 100% true to real life but this would mean hours of paperwork ahead of the flight, starting up and programming the plane, getting it airborne trough maybe heavy traffic, then simulate engine #1 failure, emergency land the plane, overhaul it, and then repeat the whole process for engine #2 fire.

No, they want to simulate this certain failure, if not executed correct repeat it and when correct, reset and move on to the next one. This helps you be a better pilot in real life and is the use of a training mode.

GT5 is a simulator, fair enough its in the title. So what is a simulator?

"Simulation is the imitation of some real thing, state of affairs, or process. The act of simulating something generally entails representing certain key characteristics or behaviours of a selected physical or abstract system."

Where does it say a simulator is for training? I would argue that GT5 is simulating something real for excitement, entertainment, fun.

 

[Nam67]

Where does it say a simulator is for training? I would argue that GT5 is simulating something real for excitement, entertainment, fun.

This thread is about a rewind feature in training mode and that is what I'm talking about, training.

 

[The Jenius]

Get the point man, IRL you cant rewind!

Sir, you are in your living room, eating or drinking and playing a video game, a video game for god sakes. You are off base a little here, and I am not sure any point would'nt be lost on you, it would probably be best if you didn't read any more as to not anger yourself.

I am saying in a virtual practice session this is a valuable tool if the aim is to teach proper driving. Not in a live race at any point.

*Also IRL you can't crash a car into a barrier bounce off and keep it moving, if thats what we are resorting to.

 

[Exorcet]

GT5 is a simulator, fair enough its in the title. So what is a simulator?

"Simulation is the imitation of some real thing, state of affairs, or process. The act of simulating something generally entails representing certain key characteristics or behaviours of a selected physical or abstract system."

Where does it say a simulator is for training? I would argue that GT5 is simulating something real for excitement, entertainment, fun.

I believe KY has said GT is there to help people drive at least partially, besides that anyone who believes this is the case can appropriately be responded to with the argument that rewind helps driving skills. I'll see if I can find a quote or something.

Simulators can be for training, be it in the definition or not. BTW, the definition says nothing about 100% replication of the real thing. By the definition, there is no stance against rewind.

 

[The Jenius]

*counting minutes until thread gets locked*

I thought there was a post about these sort of comments by a moderator not too long ago?

---------------------------------------
Here it is by Duke:

Feb 22 2006, 3:53 PM #1

The next person making an IBTL (In Before The Lock) post will get a complimentary 2-day vacation at somewhere other than GTPlanet... because you won't be posting here during that time.

IBTL posts stupid and annoying and serve zero purpose. If you expect a thread will be closed, then don't bother posting in it. There's no reason to spam it up in the name of feeling smug about yourself.

And none of you jokers better tempt me by posting one in this thread. That is all.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Sir, you are in your living room, eating or drinking and playing a video game, a video game for god sakes. You are off base a little here, and I am not sure any point would'nt be lost on you, it would probably be best if you didn't read any more as to not anger yourself.

I am saying in a virtual practice session this is a valuable tool if the aim is to teach proper driving. Not in a live race at any point.

*Also IRL you can't crash a car into a barrier bounce off and keep it moving, if thats what we are resorting to.

You didnt see it, it was like... yulp, it's gone.

I'm just glad people are on here posting, makes watching "The Mighty B!" a lot better.
Im going to get dinner, so save all the funny stuff until I get back 👍
recently from 2006?

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

I believe KY has said GT is there to help people drive at least partially, besides that anyone who believes this is the case can appropriately be responded to with the argument that rewind helps driving skills. I'll see if I can find a quote or something.

Simulators can be for training, be it in the definition or not. BTW, the definition says nothing about 100% replication of the real thing. By the definition, there is no stance against rewind.

...and once again, the argument can also be put forward that rewind degrades driving skills.

Real is by definition, 100% real. If its real, its real, if it not real and your attempting to simulate real, you are aiming for 100%.

 

[The Jenius]

...and once again, the argument can also be put forward that rewind degrades driving skills.

Real is by definition, 100% real. If its real, its real, if it not real and your attempting to simulate real, you are aiming for 100%.

Practice undoubtedly helps practice in any sport in the world. If one is to use this during testing sessions it would without a doubt help their driving.

If you struggled on a certain hairpin and went to the Track Session Testing tool and practiced that section, you would get better without a doubt. I think the title of the thread maybe whats throwing people off.

 

[Devedander]

...and once again, the argument can also be put forward that rewind degrades driving skills.

No it can be put forward that rewind CAN contribute to poorer driving skills. No one said it can't... everything has two sides. The evidence out there howerver shows that:

In the games that have rewind, it has not rendered them broken, unplayable or ruined.

Rewind CAN have a positive effect.

The statement that rewind will make people worse, make people lazy or only serve to erase problems is flawed. At best rewind may allow that behavior in those so inclined.

As I said, everything has two sides, driving line, bspec, restart a race etc... so to say something has a bad side so shouldn't be included is inherently flawed, and to say rewind WILL make peopel bad/lazy is simply wrong.

 

[The Jenius]

If used during a race it can form bad habits, but used during a practice session where good habits are enforced will only provide benefit.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

Practice undoubtedly helps practice in any sport in the world. If one is to use this during testing sessions it would without a doubt help their driving.

If you struggled on a certain hairpin and went to the Track Session Testing tool and practiced that section, you would get better without a doubt. I think the title of the thread maybe whats throwing people off.

Not for certain, if i didnt know about breaking, about balance, racing lines, it is possible i could get worse. My first attempt might have been my best ever attempt.

And as for the title !Absolutely gotta have the rewind feature! , yep its not the best.

Rewind can have positive points, but imo, the negatives within the GT series of games, seriously outwiegh the postives.

 

[Exorcet]

...and once again, the argument can also be put forward that rewind degrades driving skills.

Real is by definition, 100% real. If its real, its real, if it not real and your attempting to simulate real, you are aiming for 100%.

No, that's not the case. First off, you've declared that 0 simulators exists. Second, you ignore anything added for training purposes, such as the racing line. Yes there are racing lines, yes you can paint them on a track. But you can't flash them on/off at will. You also don't see them in a race. If rewind makes a program non sim just because you can't do it in reality (which is a ridiculous statement), so do magic lines and incorrect physics.

The CAD software on my computer does not go for 100%, it would be stupid and defeat the entire purpose of the sim to do so. I wouldn't want to wait for a part I sketched to be cut out of virtual aluminum, nor do I want it riddled with defects (which could happen) and break during a test. The point of the simulations in my CAD programs is to avoid some aspects of reality.

And as for GT as training:

Comment from Gran Turismo series producer, Kazunori Yamauchi

"When the first Gran Turismo was created 10 years ago, I had dreamt that a professional racing driver will one day arise from someone that learned to drive in Gran Turismo. Thanks to the people at the Nissan Motor Company that took serious interest in Gran Turismo, I am very happy to be able to initiate a program as attractive as this. We’ll be achieving one great goal at the Dubai 24 hour race 9 months from now, and I’m confident that a wonderful new racing driver be born then, straight out of Gran Turismo. "

http://eu.gran-turismo.com/pl/news/academy/d5202.html

Not for certain, if i didnt know about breaking, about balance, racing lines, it is possible i could get worse. My first attempt might have been my best ever attempt.

How does rewind prevent you from learning any of this? Why would someone rewinding not develop at least partial knowledge of braking, balance, and lines?

 

[The Jenius]

Not for certain, if i didnt know about breaking, about balance, racing lines, it is possible i could get worse. My first attempt might have been my best ever attempt.

And as for the title !Absolutely gotta have the rewind feature! , yep its not the best.

Rewind can have positive points, but imo, the negatives within the GT series of games, seriously outwiegh the postives.

I hear you but I don't understand how rewind won't fix this as well, especially if there is a racing line from the top time of your chosing or something to that effect. Even if you practice a bad shot, the goal is to still become more accurate and therefore ala Reggie Miller even bad habits/shots when performing them towards a sucessful goal will be effective.

 

[paskowitz]

I am sorry but how in the world has this thread lasted 4 pages?

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

Exorcet

I appreciate you digging out that quote, but it doesn't actually state that GT5 is a training simulator. It states that someone who has played the game may develop skills useful for real life. Two completely different things.
GT5 is not a training simulator, nor is it a engineering simulator. It's an attempt to simulate racing real cars. It may have taken one step back for every 2 steps forward, but it is attempting to mimic real life.

 

[The Jenius]

This thread lasted 4 now 5 pages because I did not make the thread for the feature necessarily in a race environment but more for the merits and benefits of using it as a training tool for 1 player hotlapping.

Maybe the "Rewind" is not the right word but think of it more as a Track Section Practice Tool to be used during timed practices by yourself only. Plus it is a constructive discussion where people aren't tearing each other apart but rather defending their point on the feature.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Just keep perfecting your driving skills & it's stupid drivers or drivers without the skills of the driven car, are the most likely people to crash.If you get sandwiched between a car and a guard rail on a narrow stretch of road or track, then it's your own stupid fault.I'll give you an example the first S bend at Donnington, at the start of these bends you should be near the left side before turning, then smoothly move to the right side & now hold the line in the middle just as you exit the S bend.

 

[The Jenius]

There would be no other drivers, this deals with hotlapping only.

 

[888 Tuning]

Not for certain, if i didnt know about breaking, about balance, racing lines, it is possible i could get worse. My first attempt might have been my best ever attempt.

WTHUH?
You are saying that there is a chance that if you are performing a repetetive skilled task that you will never improve ?
Sorry this is BS.

Rewind, Time trial, License tests... All are a repetition of either a set of corners or a full lap.
If you as an individual do not have the ability to improve any task via practice then you are:
God-like
or (and I hate this word) retarded in your bodies ability to develop and learn

The license tests from GT of old is the perfect example... A short section of a course that if not done well enough... you do over again.
From what you say you have nailed every single license in your first go... or you simply failed to ever achieve all your licenses?

The arguments being put forward here about repetition of any process not leading to improvement is utterly ridiculous... If I cannot get Degner corner right during my practice laps, I turn the car around, go back 2 corners and try again... In essence a ludites-rewind... until I get it right. Improvement by repetition and review, commonly referred to as PRACTICE.

The true essence of the nay-sayers arguments should be whether this feature, which is a traditionally arcadey feature, belongs in GT or not.... I agree with the Does Not crowd for reasons already posted, it does not fit with the games philosophy.
Trying to justify your "Does Not Belong" argument with rubbish logic says to me you dont really know why.. .but you just dont like it.

 

[The Jenius]

WTHUH?
You are saying that there is a chance that if you are performing a repetetive skilled task that you will never improve ?
Sorry this is BS.

Rewind, Time trial, License tests... All are a repetition of either a set of corners or a full lap.
If you as an individual do not have the ability to improve any task via practice then you are:
God-like
or (and I hate this word) retarded in your bodies ability to develop and learn

The license tests from GT of old is the perfect example... A short section of a course that if not done well enough... you do over again.
From what you say you have nailed every single license in your first go... or you simply failed to ever achieve all your licenses?

The arguments being put forward here about repetition of any process not leading to improvement is utterly ridiculous... If I cannot get Degner corner right during my practice laps, I turn the car around, go back 2 corners and try again... In essence a ludites-rewind... until I get it right. Improvement by repetition and review, commonly referred to as PRACTICE.

The true essence of the nay-sayers arguments should be whether this feature, which is a traditionally arcadey feature, belongs in GT or not.... I agree with the Does Not crowd for reasons already posted, it does not fit with the games philosophy.
Trying to justify your "Does Not Belong" argument with rubbish logic says to me you dont really know why.. .but you just dont like it.

Well put, ignorance and shouting "HELL NO" only speak to ignorance and is kinda weird actually. You have made a point of stating why you don't think it is needed and doesnt have a benefit. I only hope others can make a case in a debate without being insulted or saying ridiculous things like practice doesn't make one better. That is retarded.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

There would be no other drivers, this deals with hotlapping only.

I know i'm saying the same as you. Gain your skills experiences without crashing & there wouldn't be a need for rewind.

 

[Exorcet]

Even if you've never crashed in your life, you could benefit from rewind.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Racing your ghost is more beneficial than rewind, and it is already in GT. Using rewind, not the inclusion of the feature, will hamper your ability to recover from mistakes. Mistakes happen a lot in races, and are often not of your own fault. None of you can argue this, successfully anyways.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

The GT tests tell you 90% of how to complete the test.We aren't talking about driving lessons & a real life test here.

 

[Exorcet]

Racing your ghost is more beneficial than rewind, and it is already in GT. Using rewind, not the inclusion of the feature, will hamper your ability to recover from mistakes. Mistakes happen a lot in races, and are often not of your own fault. None of you can argue this, successfully anyways.

I disagree. What makes the ghost more beneficial? Why can't the ghost and rewind both be included?

Rewind will not hamper your recovery ability, it could very well improve it. Right now, you can't really do spin tests with any sort of accuracy. Rewind could allow you to do so. Spin yourself out, or wait for it to happen while driving. When your car is done crashing, rewind to the point where you lost control and try different things to bring the car under control.

The people who rewind and ignore their errors (this will almost have to be on purpose by the way) probably aren't the type who want to get better. Rewind or lack of it won't effect them.

 

[888 Tuning]

^^ Agreed.. also all the people here arguing know enough about the game, and enough about how to drive in this game to understand that no lap is perfect and the only way to get better is to practice. How you perform that practice is up to the individual.

As I said in a previous post... call it something different than Rewind, like Training or Practice Mode, make it a more GT-ish, mature and developed and it main gain more fans.


IsmokeGT - the only drawback to racing your ghost is if you cock up a corner early in the lap your ghost is gone for the rest of that lap... personally I love ghost racing