Advanced physics + somehow worse AI = >:(

  • Thread starter Thread starter Devedander
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I just don't get why you spin out in Kart races if you ram the AI from behind, but also spin out when the AI rams YOU from behind...
 
The AI interacts, just not fast enough.

The AI has improved, but only marginally from the previous GT's. The real test to it is how it compares to the AI in other games of today, and there really is no comparison.

Today?? 2005 GT Legends got better AI.
 
I just started the game and need some information.

The beginner events show traditional GT AI: on track I never seen before I crashed two times, mistakingly went to pit stop (wrong turn) and still finished first with ease.

So will AI improve in further event, or like GT4 and GT5 Prologue it will be same AI but with bigger handicap (talking about this strange rolling start): i.e. when you cross start line, first AI already somewhere in the middle of the lap, two laps you make your way through slowly moving 14 AI cars and on third lap finally catch up with first AI, pass it like rocket and never see again?
 
I just started the game and need some information.

The beginner events show traditional GT AI: on track I never seen before I crashed two times, mistakingly went to pit stop (wrong turn) and still finished first with ease.

So will AI improve in further event, or like GT4 and GT5 Prologue it will be same AI but with bigger handicap (talking about this strange rolling start): i.e. when you cross start line, first AI already somewhere in the middle of the lap, two laps you make your way through slowly moving 14 AI cars and on third lap finally catch up with first AI, pass it like rocket and never see again?

I'd take a guess at the reason that happened in the beginner events was simply that you had a faster car than the AI opponents?

I'm over half way through the expert events and I can't once remember a race beginning with a rolling start in GT5, so unless there's been a couple I've forgot along the way, the answer is there's no rolling starts.
 
I'd take a guess at the reason that happened in the beginner events was simply that you had a faster car than the AI opponents?

Slightly worse than best AI. In GT4 and GT5 Prologue you can blow AI with same car in two turns max (with still start of course). To keep with you during the lap AI need around 1,5 times more powerful car (still doesn't look too much like race cause it faster on straight and slower in turns)

I don't say it's necessary bad, cause all this chasing "races" with rolling start are challenging and fun.

Just wanted to know, maybe GT5 is different

P.S. I was driving CIVIC SiR-II (EG) ‘91 in some of first three beginners events and AI behind me was driving CIVIC SiR-II (EG) ‘95. The track - Cape Ring something
 
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I wonder if people are thinking of AI in different ways. That might explain the varied opinions here. When I'm speaking of AI I'm not talking about the AI drivers being able to intelligently take the proper racing line, I'm talking about them understanding basic racing concepts like track position, or even whether or not I exist on the track.

The worst example I've experienced so far was on Sarthe. I entered a race with a car I had won which didn't have sufficient top-end to compete down the straight. However, I was already past most of the AI drivers by the time I got to the straight. I raced topped-out as fast as I could right down the nice blue racing line. But instead of cleanly passing me, most of the AI cars ran into me as they passed. It was very much like they didn't even realize my car was there. All they "knew" is that they wanted to be on that racing line. You really can't even call that an AI. It is worse by far than in any other SIM I've ever driven except for GT4. I'm still having a lot of fun with the game, I'll certainly finish it, but pretending that a completely brain-dead AI is acceptable really doesn't add anything useful to this thread. It is nice to see that some people are saying the AI improves later in the game or in certain events. I hope that turns out to be the case.
 
You really can't even call that an AI. It is worse by far than in any other SIM I've ever driven except for GT4.

Well, when I played LFS in 2003 AI there was much worse than any GT game.

AI cars drove one after another like train and had no idea about your presence on track at all. GT5 AI is aware of you (maybe not all the time)
 
Does AI dificulty ramp up when you enter higher level races? In amateur class AI seems to be having problems with high speed cornering.
 
They will PIT you if you come over on them to early, they just mash the accelerator untill you're completely spun.

I don't see this as a problem, EXCEPT when you try to PIT them it's nearly impossible :/
 
I had this problem with the go kart racing. Every time I was ahead of them, they would slightly tap me and I'd go into a slide that is impossible to get out of with a go kart. Most of the go kart races took me like 20-30 tries just to survive to the end in first.
 
People should post a video of the problems they are having with the AI, then we can maybe figure out what is happening... untill then there is no real evidence
 
agreed

AI seams much worse , they just crash into you regardless (side-rear end-spin you out)

also did a test with the AI at Daytona, i was parked just a bit off the AI racing line , and guess what ? they crashed into me well over 160mph

GT AI .. i just don't get it ..
 
Probably 'cause they did what Biggles just said and raced around you rather than battling for the line.

That's the thing; at F1 2010 forum people complained AI didn't race you. Now they do try to block you but once you pass them they seem to keep a certain distance behind you or in front of you. Racing 50% or more laps of a race get very boring because unless you make a mistake the AI won't pass you and unless you can get close enough to the AI in front of you, they keep a certain distance in front. It's almost the AI is program to keep a good amount of distance between other cars.
 
This is not the case on every track but sometimes the AI drive like slot cars. As others have said they will PIT you and plow right through you just to stay on line.

On a different note... why have some people on this forum turned into cutthroat criminal attorneys demanding evidence for every glitch or flaw? This isn't hearsay- it's first hand testimony. Believe it or not you don't need video evidence in court to convict someone. Most people posting on this forum are hardcore GT fans. If you didn't experience a problem related to the thread, why post? At least give them the benefit of the doubt. /end rant
 
So, PD is smart enough to program the B Spec drivers to make realistic moves against the AI cars, but they cant seem to figure out how to make the Ai cars drive realistically around US? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
 
Cars interacted in F1:CE? I don't remember that. I do remember them driving their racing lines like I wasn't there as soon as there was the smallest little gap...usually ending in a collision which wasn't my fault.
And FC....jeez, the thing I hated most about FC was the AI! All it would do anytime you were close was cut onto the inside line, even if you were overtaking cleanly, they would cut you off, making it always an easy overtake on the outside and a crash on the inside without fail every corner.

AI has never been a GT strong point and AI has never been great in any racing game I've ever played. Its never a patch on human opponents.

I don't really care to be honest, its something that isn't really going to evolve a whole lot in the foreseeable future. I'd rather the AI be a "drone" that runs at a set pace on the racing line than the rediculously aggresive AI on other games. Funnily enough I don't like being taken out through no fault of my own.
The AI is an improvement over Prologue though, if you don't see it, you aren't looking too hard.

The AI interaction in F1CE is limited basically to moving out of the way when you are driving faster than them. Other than that, AI cars drive consistently fast on the racing line, with some significant variations in speed, but no real mistakes. They don't hit you unless you do something "unexpected". They will certainly avoid you if you just stop on the racing line.

The AI interaction in FC is evident in the way the AI cars know where you are & move to the inside to cut off the inside line. They will certainly avoid you if you just stop on the racing line.

The AI in F1 2010 seems more interactive - counterattacking in response to your overtaking maneuvers. The AI cars also make occasional serious errors. Again far from perfect, but a big step up from just following the racing line.

Other games, like SCC & Shift seem to have real problems just getting the AI to drive the racing line without plowing into each other - which is really bad!

I don't hold any of these things out as examples of "perfect" AI - far from it. But FC, F1CE & F1 2010 show that the AI is aware of your presence, which is a first step that GT seems to have not bothered with. What I notice (most clearly in the "slow" races) is that you have to make decisions about what to do - late brake/go inside/go outside etc. - in order to pass. However, because the AI cars do not acknowledge your presence, it doesn't matter what you do - you always end up "bonking them".

I wonder if people are thinking of AI in different ways. That might explain the varied opinions here. When I'm speaking of AI I'm not talking about the AI drivers being able to intelligently take the proper racing line, I'm talking about them understanding basic racing concepts like track position, or even whether or not I exist on the track.

Exactly.

The AI has improved, but only marginally from the previous GT's. The real test to it is how it compares to the AI in other games of today, and there really is no comparison.

I remember FM1 having very interactive AI (I have not played FM2 & FM3). After playing FM1 it was a total shock to play GT4 & discover PD's idea of AI.

I'm sorry but people can't go on defending the AI in this game no matter how much they live it, when Sony's own official publication can't defend it you know there's something wrong.

People seem to have an irrational, emotional need to defend KY/PD. I look at it objectively. GT5's AI is still really poor compared to almost every other comparable racing game. The lack of attention paid to this suggests that possibly KY does not care about GT5 being a racing game, but only about it being a "real driving simulator." I'm not sure that's sufficient anymore given the competition from other games - most notably Forza Motorsport. The "professional" reviews reflect this reality - I can pretty much guarantee that the boys at SRT are going to score GT5 well down from FM3.
 
Shift AI did follow a line with mistakes mixed in. The reason they piled on top of each other at the first corner was the fastest car were put in back and the slowest put in front. The fact they piled up showed how weak the AI was. There is a PC patch that fixed this problem that puts fastest in front & slowest in back just like games like Forza 3. By putting the fastest car in front makes it a lot easier on the AI and it weakness is not so obviously. GT5 seems to mixed up the patch. Anyone have done B-spec notices the AI make good passes as well as bad ones.... kind of human. AI is better than a lot of players online.
 
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i've got some picture proof of AI collaboration.
i'm minding my own bussiness on daytona when the R8 pits me, i slam into the wall and almost get airborn when the saleen scoops me up and i fly for about 15 sec :dopey:


it really made me laugh, i just had to share
 
I can't pass the GT World Championship because the stupid AI (or lack thereof) keeps ramming me from behind. I do fine on La Sarthe, but as soon as I get on the 'ring, it's like they want me to sprout wings and fly. And the worst is when you accidentally spin and they just keep accelerating and won't let you go in reverse. It's really frustrating me.
 
I have experienced some episodes of AI ignorance, but I watch all of my replays (it's half of the enjoyment of the game for me) and in all honesty, I see a LOT more times that AI do very intelligent things than when they do ignorant stupid things. Also, I would be willing to bet that a lot of you are CAUSING these PIT manuevers that you are experiencing. Most of the time when I get PIT manuevered it's because I made an overly aggresive pass, and didn't stick to the inside line, and went back to the OUTSIDE line, and got PIT'd because I went into the AI's line and they were out of road. Even in some of those cases, the AI will brake and just slide in behind me. One other thing, I have noticed that if you slide sideways and a car is pretty close (like unavoidably close and sometimes a little bit farther, to where most humans would at least come close to avoiding) instead of stopping and waiting for you to move, they just power through you.
 
This is not the case on every track but sometimes the AI drive like slot cars. As others have said they will PIT you and plow right through you just to stay on line.

On a different note... why have some people on this forum turned into cutthroat criminal attorneys demanding evidence for every glitch or flaw? This isn't hearsay- it's first hand testimony. Believe it or not you don't need video evidence in court to convict someone. Most people posting on this forum are hardcore GT fans. If you didn't experience a problem related to the thread, why post? At least give them the benefit of the doubt. /end rant

It goes both ways, also there will be more evidence proving the AI isn't anywhere near as bad as some think. This isn't court, its a community forum where we share our thoughts, pictures and videos.

The AI is dynamic. It varies. watching b-spec proves that.
 
It goes both ways, also there will be more evidence proving the AI isn't anywhere near as bad as some think. This isn't court, its a community forum where we share our thoughts, pictures and videos.

The AI is dynamic. It varies. watching b-spec proves that.

I'm slowly coming to a similar but slightly different conclusion. It looks to me as if the AI is more "random" than "dynamic". I'm wondering if PD didn't have to essentially turn off the AI either in extremely demanding (in terms of computing power) situations to maintain decent frame-rates, or if it is track specific. I'm trying to work it out.

Just watch your mirror and you will see plenty of times where the AI does in fact appear to be working well. Then all of a sudden it will fail in a spectacular fashion and suddenly all the AI cars will be randomly running into you. I'm not talking about a specific bad AI driver, which might be on purpose; "watch out for that guy in the corvette". I'm talking about every single AI opponent suddenly appearing to "forget" that I exist and just trying to drive through me. It is complicated and I've yet to figure out if there is a pattern or if the AI just glitches out sometimes. At any rate, this definitely explains the variations in experience we see here. And it is certainly something that might be fixed in an update. (Also, why in the world are some many of the AI cars in the slower events stabbing hard on the brakes exactly at the apex of a corner? That's so utterly wrong I can't even begin to understand it...)

*RANT ON* This is a perfect example of "netiquette," which many posters in this thread obviously need to learn. A number of people here are attempting to have an intelligent adult conversation; maybe even a civilized and properly argued disagreement. But many of you instead chose to respond in immature and frankly offensive ways. Please attempt to be civil, polite, intelligent. Basically, if you wouldn't stand directly in front of me and say something to my face, then I don't want to read it here or in any discussion forum. Just because you are on the internet does NOT mean you should forego all rules of civilized discourse and turn into a complete horses youknowwhat. *RANT OFF*
 
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