Advanced physics + somehow worse AI = >:(

  • Thread starter Thread starter Devedander
  • 175 comments
  • 16,413 views
:lol: Until you get to the higher level races the AI isn't really fast. Try a comparable car, I love how they have a new feature for A-Spec called "common opponents" (or something like that) so that you can see what types of cars the AI will be using, so that you can pick an appropriate car.

Well I blew through most of the early race and then took my prize car to the
Vitz Challenge
and got totally stomped. During this time I did notice the AI is much better here than it was in TGTT. I am still not convinced it's all that good but it defintely wasn't totally blind anymore and on seemed far less likely to drive through me.

That said I did get rammed a few times still and in very questionable situations - turning in on me too hard when there is no reason to and I have had the line for quite a while and boxing me in then pushing me off line into a corner (at the cost of their line as well but somehow they seem to recover better than I do). I am going to go to the store and see if I can find a better chair before injure my thighs...

I am feeling very hopeful that the TGTT AI isn't respresentative of most of Aspec but I will have to wait until I get some power car races to see for sure... still frustrated I have to go back and gold the Lotus challenge with those line driving 🤬
 
If the AI has improved from Prologue, it's barely discernible. The AI cars still basically follow the racing line & do not react to your presence unless you actually bump them. They do not do bizarre things like pile into each other the way they do in Shift or SCC, but nor do they interact with you in the way they do in FC, F1 CE, or F1 2010. The way the AI cars interact in F1 2010 may not always be completely realistic, but it IS interactive: for example, if you late brake & dive into the inside, they will react to that & attempt to out-throttle you on the exit. This means there is a sense of actually RACING the AI, as opposed to just driving faster than it. There's nothing like that (that I've seen so far) in GT5.
This is interesting example since in F1 2010 forum they claimed how bad the AI is and how fake it was. At first everyone was claiming the AI in the race were all fake. Now I agree F1 2010 seem to have a descent AI but I think GT5 does as well.
I don't think I've ever saw a racing sim where people in the forum were complaining how stupid/bad the AI was.
 
Last edited:
This is interesting example since in F1 2010 forum they claimed how bad the AI is and how fake it was. At first everyone was claiming the AI in the race were all fake. Now I agree F1 2010 seem to have a descent AI but I think GT5 does as well.
I don't think I've ever saw a racing sim where people in the forum were complaining how stupid/bad the AI was.

Probably 'cause they did what Biggles just said and raced around you rather than battling for the line.
 
I see this thread is still going strong. Ok I'm not one to read reviews of games, personally I ignore them and go to forums to get real gamers views on a game, but after debating on this subject on this thread earlier, I decided to do a little bit of digging. Now the general consensus review wise about GT5 is that it's a great game but should be a lot better (some did say that updates and patches could iron out most of the rough edges). A fair assessment if not a bit under rated in my opinion. Now to AI and most reviews basically confirmed what a lot of people on this forum are saying, the AI is not up to scratch. What were the reasons given? Exactly the same reasons people have been speaking about on this very thread. Now, like I said I don't pay much attention to review sites however one review did, or actually a paragraph quoted from a magazine on the C&VG website, the magazine in question was Official Playstation Magazine, a publication here in the UK officially endorsed by none other than Sony themselves. It's pretty well known that Sony published games or Playstation exclusive games always get shall we say an easier ride from this publication and have done for many a year, however even a Sony endorsed magazine has tore into GT5's AI saying it has a long way to go and giving an example where they parked a car at the side of the track, clearly visible during a race on a long straight and waited to see what happened and yes you've guessed it, the first car clattered right into the back of it without the slightest hint of a swerve or braking. I'm sorry but people can't go on defending the AI in this game no matter how much they live it, when Sony's own official publication can't defend it you know there's something wrong.
 
I too absolutely hate the new AI. If they're not PIT maneuvering you disqualifing you from a race then they're braking right at the apex of a turn. I want to beat their head in sooo bad sometime. Prologue AI was much better to me.

GTR Evolution had the best AI I have ever seen.
 
Last edited:
I too absolutely hate the new AI. If they're not PIT maneuvering you disqualifing you from a race then they're braking right at the apex of a turn. I want to beat their head in sooo bad sometime. Prologue AI was much better to me.

At least the prologue AI didn't try to rear you on purpose, as it seems like in GT5. Watched a couple of races on Daytona Oval, where a powerful AI car coming from behind on the grid bumps literally *every* other AI car on it's way to the front.
And the Fuji hairpin in prologue was a bit of a struggle for the AI, but the first corner of the Nurnburgring GP circuit is a bumpercar feast. 👎
 
I was in first place and got the PIT from the second place car. Spun around 180 and the entire pack just kept their foot on the floor. I couldn't get out of that mess in reverse or drive. Not until the whole pack had slowed to a crawl from trying to push me halfway around the track. By the time I finally got free the lead car (one who had performed the PIT on me) was 3/4 of a lap ahead. If I could've ripped off my steering whirl and thrown it through the tv I would have. I was cursing so much I didn't even know what I was saying.
 
Clean over take = no pitt. You pass clean they can't pitt you. Thats how I see it, I wont even pass unless i can do it clean as I know I will get hit if i dont. Watching B-spec races shows some cleaver AI.
 
Did no one notice, that the AI in the special events is scripted? You have to find the perfect way thats all. And when you do it wrong they pit you. In normal races thay try to avoid you if you don´t do crazy stuff.
 
NO! Someone is using the old Jedi Mind Trick on you!! I know it well

Did no one notice, that the AI in the special events is scripted? You have to find the perfect way thats all. And when you do it wrong they pit you. In normal races thay try to avoid you if you don´t do crazy stuff.

Yes, the special event subject was covered yesterday. To the second point, no they don't.
 
Yes, some of us noticed that. Not enough people notice it seems. Clean over take them :).
 
After some more playing, I'm reserving judgement on the AI for a bit. I've mainly been playing the special events, practices and a few beginner races. The special events AI is likely scripted or at least has narrow constraints, and I'm now thinking that the early stage races have intentionally bad AI drivers. Here's why:

I saw both the E-Type Jaguar and Honda S2000 in the used car lot, bought both since they're awesome, and used the E-Type on World Classics. I quickly got ahead and felt guilty since I figured I was using an overkill car for the race. Then I looked at the list and, no, it wasn't. So, I decided to try the S2000 on the FR races, which was my original plan until I saw the list had the likes of M3s and Corvettes. I wound up winning pretty easily, and I was running far from perfect laps. So, I'm guessing that the beginner AI is intentionally stupid.

Who knows, maybe Yamauchi based the beginner AI on the kinds of people he saw driving M3s, Corvettes and the like on track days.
 
Oh dear. All the comments with regard to GT5 seem to be divided between the PD apologists, who desperately want GT5 to be the game it should be, & those, like all the "professional" reviewers, for example, who see the game as it is.

If the AI has improved from Prologue, it's barely discernible. The AI cars still basically follow the racing line & do not react to your presence unless you actually bump them. They do not do bizarre things like pile into each other the way they do in Shift or SCC, but nor do they interact with you in the way they do in FC, F1 CE, or F1 2010. The way the AI cars interact in F1 2010 may not always be completely realistic, but it IS interactive: for example, if you late brake & dive into the inside, they will react to that & attempt to out-throttle you on the exit. This means there is a sense of actually RACING the AI, as opposed to just driving faster than it. There's nothing like that (that I've seen so far) in GT5.

The first console sim I played was FM 1. I remember the races with the AI as being extremely tough, interactive & "unscripted" - every race unfolded in a different way with AI cars doing different things & interacting with you & each other in an unpredictable way. I'm assuming FM2 & FM3 have built on that further. Every objective reviewer has commented on the fact that the GT series has always had drone-like AI. Unfortunately, KY does not seem to take this as a serious criticism, & GT5 does not seem to offer a significant change in this approach. For me, it remains the single most important shortcoming of GT5.

Cars interacted in F1:CE? I don't remember that. I do remember them driving their racing lines like I wasn't there as soon as there was the smallest little gap...usually ending in a collision which wasn't my fault.
And FC....jeez, the thing I hated most about FC was the AI! All it would do anytime you were close was cut onto the inside line, even if you were overtaking cleanly, they would cut you off, making it always an easy overtake on the outside and a crash on the inside without fail every corner.

AI has never been a GT strong point and AI has never been great in any racing game I've ever played. Its never a patch on human opponents.

I don't really care to be honest, its something that isn't really going to evolve a whole lot in the foreseeable future. I'd rather the AI be a "drone" that runs at a set pace on the racing line than the rediculously aggresive AI on other games. Funnily enough I don't like being taken out through no fault of my own.
The AI is an improvement over Prologue though, if you don't see it, you aren't looking too hard.
 
Posted in video section

 
Well I blew through most of the early race and then took my prize car to the
Vitz Challenge
and got totally stomped. During this time I did notice the AI is much better here than it was in TGTT. I am still not convinced it's all that good but it defintely wasn't totally blind anymore and on seemed far less likely to drive through me.

That said I did get rammed a few times still and in very questionable situations - turning in on me too hard when there is no reason to and I have had the line for quite a while and boxing me in then pushing me off line into a corner (at the cost of their line as well but somehow they seem to recover better than I do). I am going to go to the store and see if I can find a better chair before injure my thighs...

I am feeling very hopeful that the TGTT AI isn't respresentative of most of Aspec but I will have to wait until I get some power car races to see for sure... still frustrated I have to go back and gold the Lotus challenge with those line driving 🤬

I can send you a copy of my replay. I gold it pretty easily. Once you figure out the AI lines, there are some pretty nice openings to make aggressive yet safe passes past MULTIPLE cars.
 
Posted in video section



One video out of millions of combined races. Lots of GT5 owners complaining and not only on this site, critics giving the AI a hammering including Sony's own publication and the best you can do is one vid? Oh dear.
 
I have always just loved driving in GT so much that I never really cared how stupid the AI was. I love the driving physics so much more now that the AI is totally not an issue especially now that we have online MP .

If you want to experience some extremely aggressive AI pit maneuvers, try GRID on the PC. I had been playing Grid for the past few months waiting for GT5 and the AI is insanely aggressive.
 
I can send you a copy of my replay. I gold it pretty easily. Once you figure out the AI lines, there are some pretty nice openings to make aggressive yet safe passes past MULTIPLE cars.

I'm gonna take a few more stabs now that I have done some other stuff but if I haven't gotten it soon I may have to take you up on that! :scared:

I think I know where I can make all the passes reasonably but I have a lot of trouble holding that car together so I am trying to find the line between aggressive enough to win but tame enough not to end up in the green...
 
He's just proving that the AI does react to the player, many assume they don't. Most of the complaints come from the License tests and Special Events.
 
One video out of millions of combined races. Lots of GT5 owners complaining and not only on this site, critics giving the AI a hammering including Sony's own publication and the best you can do is one vid? Oh dear.

Back off

Jesus Christ....



I found an AI vid and posted it. Check your attitude.
 
He's just proving that the AI CAN react to the player, many assume they don't. Most of the complaints come from the License tests and Special Events.

Changed that... there is a difference and I am not sure you can really say what you said about the AI here...
 
Do you mean in A-spec only or are you talking about the license test and Special events? I'm talking about A-Spec, every race I've done the AI did all they could to avoid me. Once the AI slowed down when I spun out as if he was waiting for me to recover. This was at the back end of a race.

Can you find an example in A-spec video proving that the AI canl run right into you with no mercy? I know they have a small window of reaction time in some cases but every race I've done in A-spec the AI avoids you. I watched a video where the AI moved away from me as I was passing on the inside on Cap ring. The AI has the same cool/hot aggression as in B-spec. I was behind an MR2 and he was drifting a bit from pushing too hard.
 
Do you mean in A-spec only or are you talking about the license test and Special events? I'm talking about A-Spec, every race I've done the AI did all they could to avoid me. Once the AI slowed down when I spun out as if he was waiting for me to recover. This was at the back end of a race.

Can you find an example in A-spec video proving that the AI canl run right into you with no mercy? I know they have a small window of reaction time in some cases but every race I've done in A-spec the AI avoids you. I watched a video where the AI moved away from me as I was passing on the inside on Cap ring. The AI has the same cool/hot aggression as in B-spec. I was behind an MR2 and he was drifting a bit from pushing too hard.

I am talking about a spec. The speical events are apparently a different (frustrating) beast but even in A spec I have been abused a bit... no where near as bad as the TGTT so I am relieved about that, but I have been run into a fair number f times where it wasn't my fault at all...

If you look back a few pages I posted a video from E3 where some cars intelligently pass and avoid but the others just ram and drive through.

What I am saying is that while the AI is in A spec is clearly not like it is on TGTT special events, I am not convinced it's abilities are consistent even in A spec mode.
 
Back off

Jesus Christ....



I found an AI vid and posted it. Check your attitude.

I'm merely making a point, incidently the exact same point on the exact same video posted. I know you were probably unaware of this so sorry if it sounded snappy.
 
I am talking about a spec. The speical events are apparently a different (frustrating) beast but even in A spec I have been abused a bit... no where near as bad as the TGTT so I am relieved about that, but I have been run into a fair number f times where it wasn't my fault at all...

If you look back a few pages I posted a video from E3 where some cars intelligently pass and avoid but the others just ram and drive through.

What I am saying is that while the AI is in A spec is clearly not like it is on TGTT special events, I am not convinced it's abilities are consistent even in A spec mode.

Being bumped into is not entirely the same as being avoided, sometime contact will happen. During passes or in car packs its likely to happen, dirty over taking its likely to happen. I've never been bumped into during a clean overtake. Near the front the AI seems more aggressive(Hot) at the back not so much (cool). It shows they are dynamic, even humans will bump you ram you and even worse even when they don't try to. When you watch replays you can see how the incidents occurred. I've learned to avoid some things and just knowing how they will react helps. You cant see out the side mirror and I realize at times there will be an AI car right on my side but you cant see him there.

I just believe the AI is better that most people think from my experience.

I dont know how many races you have done on ovals but you can see the AI really react to everything and its a blind spot disaster waiting to happen.
 
Back off

Jesus Christ....



I found an AI vid and posted it. Check your attitude.

Anes, you'll have to forgive stephen. He's been trolling this thread since the beginning, it's just too bad that when he is confronted with logic he just ignores it.
 
I'm not getting involved in this :lol:
 
Anes, you'll have to forgive stephen. He's been trolling this thread since the beginning, it's just too bad that when he is confronted with logic he just ignores it.

So trolling is making points and backing them up with examples and facts? While you on the other hand have offered very little to your side of the argument. What logic have you produced? Please do enlighten me because I sure haven't witnessed any apart from one video you posted which was quickly discredited as fast as it was posted. As far as getting a little personal goes well there's plenty I could say about you but I choose not to so as to keep the debate as civilised as possible. Childish remarks about "trolling" only show you up for what you (maybe) are, a silly little boy without the slightest clue about anything?
 
The AI interacts, just not fast enough.

The AI has improved, but only marginally from the previous GT's. The real test to it is how it compares to the AI in other games of today, and there really is no comparison.
 
In all honesty, after the fury that was the Special Events, I haven't seen that much of a problem with it. I was unaware that the Special Events used hardcoded AI (or whatever), and while it is still quite slow comparatively speaking, it isn't nearly as stupid as I was led to believe by the TGTT and licence tests.
 
Back