AI Difficulty slider Yes / No ? & fix the chase the rabbit AI

[watermelon punch]

I don't understand this logic from Kaz. Even if you aim it at new racers, they're not going to be new racers long. What do they do once they've learned how to drive, get bored?

Get online & race other real people?

Playing other real people is always better. And there's scientific studies to back it up apparently.

http://www.olganon.org/?q=node/33361

Researchers at Aalto University have now found that success in video games triggers strong pleasure responses in the brain's reward centers, and that these responses are further boosted when playing against fellow human players.
[...]
Participants' brain activity was measured with functional magnetic resonance imaging while they were playing a two-player tank shooter game. The participants were led to believe that they were playing against a computer or human opponent, whereas in reality they always played against another human player.

 

[eSZee]

Playing other real people is always better.

I stopped playing online because it was, in my experience, quite the opposite.

 

[watermelon punch]

I stopped playing online because it was, in my experience, quite the opposite.

In what way?
They were less challenging than the AI?
They were less interesting than the AI?

More likely that they were just not suited to your preferences of gameplay. IE: not following the same rules as you, or maybe you had a problem with griefers.

That's why people make friends, get involved in organized race series with agreed upon rules, join lobbies that are well-hosted & tightly stewarded, or join leagues or clubs, or just groups of pals who have the same ideas about how to play a game.
Did you try much of that at all?

 

[townnet]

I raced a M3 In my stock honda fit and still wipped the floor with it , how much lower do I need to go ?

You play arcade mode or career mode? You can adjust the slider of AI behavior and select difficulty in arcade mode... I believe career mode is only easier at beginning stage.

 

[Imari]

In what way?
They were less challenging than the AI?
They were less interesting than the AI?

More likely that they were just not suited to your preferences of gameplay. IE: not following the same rules as you, or maybe you had a problem with griefers.

That's why people make friends, get involved in organized race series with agreed upon rules, join lobbies that are well-hosted & tightly stewarded, or join leagues or clubs, or just groups of pals who have the same ideas about how to play a game.
Did you try much of that at all?

Playing with real people may always be better, except when it's on the internet.

It's the internet. Most people are assholes.

In order to find a room that's not full of assholes, you have to either spend time flicking through rooms trying to find the right one. Or have a large friends list and have some of them online, which doesn't always happen if the majority of the racers you know live in other time zones. Or be in a league, unless you want to have a race outside the times the league races.

What happens if I come home from work and I just want a quick race for half an hour? In GT5, I'd be lucky to find a decent room in that long, let alone get a race. That's why the single player mode exists, so I can just play and not have to worry about finding other people, or annoying them with how drunk I am, or whatever.

Online is not a solution to a poor single player. They are used for different things.

Personally, I have PC sims for online, simply because GT5 dealt so poorly with my connection from Australia. But PC sims routinely have awful or no single player. GT traditionally had relatively interesting single player, up until GT4 at least. I don't see why it's now suddenly a good idea to ditch that because people can go online.

Note: Admittedly, if there were such a thing as matchmaking, that would go a long way to making online fill a similar role to single player. Despite being promised in GT5 we still don't have it, and don't know when we'll get it.

 

[Alss]

You play arcade mode or career mode? You can adjust the slider of AI behavior and select difficulty in arcade mode... I believe career mode is only easier at beginning stage.

That was In career mode yes I know you can adjust in arcade mode, im now on class A in career and the AI have not got any better im still having to run 150pp and a tyre set below to have any sort of a challenge, to be honest I find arcade much better for racing than career but even in arcade on pro its still more track day than racing , you hunt the lead car and your done GT doesn't offer bumper to bumper racing sadly, I think its just one of those things a player has to except shame because this is a great game just wish Kaz would offer the choices for the more hard core players.

 

[watermelon punch]

Playing with real people may always be better, except when it's on the internet.

It's the internet. Most people are assholes.

I don't think that's fair. There are whole bunches of people organizing stuff on this forum, playing together online, and they're not all jerks. (At least not to each other usually. lol)

I agree there ought to be better ways of meeting up with like-minded players. And apparently GT6 is supposed to come out with those options.

Online is not a solution to a poor single player. They are used for different things.

I agree they are different. But right or wrong, disappointing or not, I think the assumption is that once you get good, you'd be playing online.
Not saying that's something wonderful about Gran Turismo for everyone. But I think it is the plan.

And I have heard there are other games that are specifically targeted for people who are die-hard long-time experienced racing gamers. Gran Turismo is not one of them. I'm not sure it wants to be.

 

[townnet]

Playing with real people may always be better, except when it's on the internet.

It's the internet. Most people are assholes.

In order to find a room that's not full of assholes, you have to either spend time flicking through rooms trying to find the right one. Or have a large friends list and have some of them online, which doesn't always happen if the majority of the racers you know live in other time zones. Or be in a league, unless you want to have a race outside the times the league races.

What happens if I come home from work and I just want a quick race for half an hour? In GT5, I'd be lucky to find a decent room in that long, let alone get a race. That's why the single player mode exists, so I can just play and not have to worry about finding other people, or annoying them with how drunk I am, or whatever.

Online is not a solution to a poor single player. They are used for different things.

Personally, I have PC sims for online, simply because GT5 dealt so poorly with my connection from Australia. But PC sims routinely have awful or no single player. GT traditionally had relatively interesting single player, up until GT4 at least. I don't see why it's now suddenly a good idea to ditch that because people can go online.

Note: Admittedly, if there were such a thing as matchmaking, that would go a long way to making online fill a similar role to single player. Despite being promised in GT5 we still don't have it, and don't know when we'll get it.

What i don't like GT online mode are, the car animation looks weird and the speed much faster (like fast forward) compare to offline, i have take a look back to the replay and it still same.

 

[Imari]

I agree there ought to be better ways of meeting up with like-minded players. And apparently GT6 is supposed to come out with those options.

And when it does, then maybe the game will have something to offer people like me. Pleasures of releasing an incomplete game.

I agree they are different. But right or wrong, disappointing or not, I think the assumption is that once you get good, you'd be playing online.
Not saying that's something wonderful about Gran Turismo for everyone. But I think it is the plan.

And I have heard there are other games that are specifically targeted for people who are die-hard long-time experienced racing gamers. Gran Turismo is not one of them. I'm not sure it wants to be.

Maybe so. But the leap from GT career mode to online is enormous. You might as well go from playing Chopsticks to full concert hall recitals. If the intention is to train people from basic entry up to playing online, they're missing pretty much all of the steps inbetween to go with those two end points.

 

[stb155]

I raced a M3 In my stock honda fit and still wipped the floor with it , how much lower do I need to go ?

Using slower cars does not fix the new AI, it only makes it worse because they slow down even more for you.

Use the car the strongest opponent uses ore something compareable, and you will get better races becaus the AI does not slow down for you.

I just did the supercars at Monza (int B) with the new Viper and was quite busy to catch the MP4-12C at front.


Still the whole AI really needs to be fixed.

I get they want to make it more easy for new people, but the simply overdid id.
The game tells you what cars best to buy, the line to drive, where to brake and accelerate, the gear you should take, prevents you from spinning and stops you from skidding. Missions/license tests are easy as never before to do gold.

Does it really needs to make the opponents wait for you on top of that ?!?

 

[watermelon punch]

And when it does, then maybe the game will have something to offer people like me. Pleasures of releasing an incomplete game.

Maybe so. But the leap from GT career mode to online is enormous. You might as well go from playing Chopsticks to full concert hall recitals. If the intention is to train people from basic entry up to playing online, they're missing pretty much all of the steps inbetween to go with those two end points.

Fair enough.

I share much of your views on these points.

Except I think that many people forget very soon what it was like once to be a newbie.

 

[Imari]

Except I think that many people forget very soon what it was like once to be a newbie.

Certainly, and trying to make games accommodating for new players is important, especially in a game environment like sim racing where a lot of the gameplay is unintuitive (if you don't already have an in-depth knowledge of car mechanics).

Other games have approached this through difficulty sliders, assists and tutorials, which I think are good methods. GT6 has assists and tutorials, but instead of difficulty sliders just made every really easy. I think some value is lost by that approach.

Certainly you couldn't do the opposite and just make everything really hard, that would be insane. But I think it shows that the variance between players is so large that a single difficulty level is really inadequate. Unless you have adaptive AI, but even then it's not really a single difficulty level, it's just multiple levels controlled by the computer instead of the player.

They have difficulty levels in Arcade mode, for all the good they do. Nothing stopping them putting those into Career.

 

[Kratos_Q8]

lol @ people voting NO

 

[umafeckit]

Certainly, and trying to make games accommodating for new players is important, especially in a game environment like sim racing where a lot of the gameplay is unintuitive (if you don't already have an in-depth knowledge of car mechanics).

My ass it's for new players. They didn't do this before and GT still sold like hotcakes. GT5 Prologue sold very well for what as, at the end of the day, an expensive demo. Prologue was my first GT and I found it really rather hard. Screw up more than a couple of times on some of those races and you won't win. I was a beginner, but I stuck with it and learned. Beginners are up for a challenge like anyone else. I gave away my copy of Prologue to a friend when I bought GT5. Starting to wish I hadn't done that now.

I have no idea what they were thinking with GT6. The AI seems no different. It's the same as the old AI, but it waits for you much more. It's crap and ruins the game. Even for a beginner this would ruin the game once they realised what was going on. Most things that are "broken" in GT6 are things you can get used to and merge into the background a week or two into the game. Not so for the woeful AI.

 

[Imari]

My ass it's for new players. They didn't do this before and GT still sold like hotcakes. GT5 Prologue sold very well for what as, at the end of the day, an expensive demo. Prologue was my first GT and I found it really rather hard. Screw up more than a couple of times on some of those races and you won't win. I was a beginner, but I stuck with it and learned. Beginners are up for a challenge like anyone else. I gave away my copy of Prologue to a friend when I bought GT5. Starting to wish I hadn't done that now.

I have no idea what they were thinking with GT6. The AI seems no different. It's the same as the old AI, but it waits for you much more. It's crap and ruins the game. Even for a beginner this would ruin the game once they realised what was going on. Most things that are "broken" in GT6 are things you can get used to and merge into the background a week or two into the game. Not so for the woeful AI.

Oh I agree. The "new players" thing is what PD have chosen to give as an excuse, so we sort of have to take that at face value.

It's still a dumb idea though. Either they're idiots in that they actually thought it was a good idea to nerf an entire game for the sake of newbies, or they're lying through their teeth. Bit of both, probably.

 

[Alss]

Prologue remember S10 ? Now that was a race.

 

[Enemem]

Are you guys stupid? (Rhetorical - because I know you are).

This is a computer game - it has CUSTOM adjustments. If you want a challenge then stop using stupid cars to race with. Stop putting the best tyres you can get away with, and start putting the worst tyres you can't get away with. We are all different. Most of you could probably win a race in a Honda Fit with Comfort Hards againsta Veyrons, yeah you get my point. Stop bitching you big bunch of whusses.

 

[Imari]

Are you guys stupid? (Rhetorical - because I know you are).

Oh, the irony.

This is a computer game - it has CUSTOM adjustments. If you want a challenge then stop using stupid cars to race with. Stop putting the best tyres you can get away with, and start putting the worst tyres you can't get away with. We are all different. Most of you could probably win a race in a Honda Fit with Comfort Hards againsta Veyrons, yeah you get my point. Stop bitching you big bunch of whusses.

You've missed the point entirely. Racing a slow car against a fast car that goes slow isn't that much fun. Veyron destroys you on the straights, you destroy him in the corners. Woo. No real race is like that. Good racing is when you're evenly matched with your opponent and you have to use your wits and skill to win.

GT6 has no adjustments, and that's entirely the point. The computer has one setting, and it's up to the player to cripple themselves enough to somehow make the gameplay interesting. That seems backwards to me.

 

[Enemem]

The computer has one setting, and it's up to the player to cripple themselves enough to somehow make the gameplay interesting. That seems backwards to me.

That's a fair point but you are able to make a good race if you choose appropriate power/tyres etc. To be honest some of the B-spec drivers put in awesome times on GT5, so it's not beyond their capacities to deliver something appropriate.

Plus as the events progress, they get trickier!