AI slow down to let you win.

[nosebluntbob]

I don't believe anyone said it was new but that said it certainly wasn't this bad in GT5 but even if it was it doesn't mean it should continual in this way.

theyre still braking mid corner or exiting a corner for no reason at all other than to let me past or to get in way but either way the cpu in all games are easy when your good so will be doing online club racing, thats where the best racing goes on the career is just for unlocking stuff to me really. but even in this one compared to 5 is worse "career" mode no good lengthy or hard races, loadsa crap 400pp begginer races and only couple of race car races other than to earn cars for online competition theres no real wanting to keep you going and gives no sense of achievement other than relief just feels small nearly done all major stuff and still got fek all to show for it and now way to earn more cars other than repeating same old same old, should hike up the cash prizes for online races as theyre hardest and would get more people on ther but yeh shocked at how they seemed to have given up on racing and just put tracks and cars always know is a si but kinda expect that to come hand in hand with some good realistic racing which this lacks baaaaaaaaaadly

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

I'm finding pretty much the opposite in Career races. One race I was driving an Audi R18 Anniversary Edition at Bathurst during the GTWC. It took me 3 laps to knock the leader's gap down from about 15 seconds and get him into overtaking range, and then once I got around him he seemed glued to my diffuser. And on top of that, a Nissan R92CP that had been mired in traffic for much of the race broke free and closed the gap so quickly he was able to take us both on Mountain Straight (the first long one) the very next lap! I won by a few hundredths of a second, and the R92CP finished third only 0.2s behind. Very odd indeed.

 

[stb155]

They seem to start to slow down badly at 50% of the race if you are not already behind them.

If you are behind them they start to become faster.
This part i actually like a lot, exactly what a real driver would do when you pop up in his mirror.

The problem is the slow down part, if you close up to them late when they have already slowed down a lot they are not picking it up soon enough. I had to stay behind one opponent (FXX) for over half a lap before he began to drive at a proper speed again. Once he was up to speed he was even faster than the Huayra and a real challenge to overtake.

And it just makes you feel like an idiot if they wait for you.

They should really remove that slowing down thing, they are slow enough on their normal pace.
In my example above the Huayra did 1:59 on race tires while i did 1:55,2 on soft sports in the MP4.
Only under pressure he began to do 1:55's to.
I think that is really slow enough.

 

[Eric W]

PD programmed a simulated conscience into the AI. If you fall behind or spin the leaders feel bad for you so the wait for you to catch back up.

 

[HBK]

The combination of rabbit chases setups and insane rubberbanding is driving me nuts. I've never seen that much rubber banding in any game ever. AI cars can literally slow down to 20mph in order for you to catch them (easily checkable when watching the replay, for example if you got off road badly and took your time to go back on track), and the moment you overtake them they go into Super Pursuit and try to overtake you with extreme prejudice.

It's just a freakin' pity. The game has it's faults (the tire model still kinda sucks, framerate issues, etc) but the track selection, day/night/weather, car list, and so forth are awesome. The career mode just plain sucks when you finally understand all races play the same (as long as your car is remotely competitive) : 3 laps race, start last, overtake the pack on first lap, see the leader maintain it's lead for the second lap, overtake him during the first half of third lap as he slows down () and prevent him from overtaking you during the last turns/straigths.

I mean, what's the point ?

If I spin out they still wait for me and I still overtake them in the end ?

Seriously ...

 

[dixonbaps]

I think the game is designed to get you on-line very quickly. That's where the real $$ is for Sony/PD. When off line you're basically just hot lapping for a few credits to buy some basic cars which to the casual racer/driver would be a real pain if you can't win. But on-line is where they want you. On-line they hope you buy millions of credits with micro-transactions to buy 20,000,000 Ford's and Ferrari's as a sort of Status Symbol to brag about showing how rich you are in real life so other people might get the same idea and do the same while Sony/PD are raking in all the real $$.

As an off-line game GT6 is way too easy but you win very little and I can't it changing any time soon. IMO That's the way GT is going. It's just a base to get you playing and then offer loads of stuff for real $$ that you can basically brag about on-line. I can't see anything major changing in the AI department or the off-line single player, There is no need in PD's eye's. We can complain all day to PD about the AI but they are not listening. The only time they would listen is if something was wrong and that it effected on-line.

To me GT6 if just GT7 Prologue. When GT7 arrives on PS4 then they will be raking in 10's of thousands of $$ and off-line will just be practically the same as GT6, Easy AI to get you to like the game through winning almost all the time and finish career to get you on-line. It's a formula that's working now and all we do is complain to each other how bad the AI is while PD/Sony Rake in all the money from micro-transactions, DLC etc.

Just my opinion. Not a point of argument. Peace....

 

[Crowood]

goin on gt5 and see if you can beat a 657 nur lap with a muscle and sport tyres see how easy it is without using a 1000bhp viper obv considering the rs is 530ish pp

Not sure what you are saying. The RS is not competitiv in that race/class, so it really is funny PD put it in there.

 

[Gabe Logan]

The combination of rabbit chases setups and insane rubberbanding is driving me nuts. I've never seen that much rubber banding in any game ever.

3 laps race, start last, overtake the pack on first lap, see the leader maintain it's lead for the second lap, overtake him during the first half of third lap as he slows down () and prevent him from overtaking you during the last turns/straigths.

Bang on. This is the best description of what's occurin' that I've read. Kudos. You nailed it.

(And apparently, it's exactly the same in the S Class 'enduro' races.)

 

[hejira]

not entirely related but yesterday I did the 20min apricot challenge and it was a close finish as i'd worn out my tires on the last chicane; I was clearly in the lead over the finish line though but the results said I had finished 2nd and was 0.100 seconds behind the winner. After I pressed OK on this screen it awarded me GOLD and said I'd come first!

wtf??

 

[Tired Tyres]

What? The AI gifts you a win and if you decline that then game gifts you the win anyway!

 

[BWX]

The only way to make career even remotely fun is to use a car severely underpowered I have found.. Then if you finally catch the leader, he hounds you on the straights and usually gets by if you let him, then you have to pass him on the corners again. Pretty stupid though, why can't PD just make competitive ai? Why can't they at least have a difficulty slider and let me decide if I want to make it difficult or not? They just decided to make it easy for everyone, and make it more and more difficult for you to try to make it fun. I'm taking career slow because I paid 60 bucks for game and taking my time.

 

[Aria]

I created a theory.

PD actually made AI too good so they had to use rubber band. We all have seen how potential this AI is. It is aggressive and it knows how to overtake.

So, PD can't use standing starts because it causes frame rate drop dramatically. There is just too many cars on the screen. You can see in gt500 cup how long gap is between car pairs.

As said, it's almost impossible to win these 2 lap races if you use equal car or little better. AI is too good if it drives its maximum speed. PD panicked and this rubber band AI was only way. They also made AI to brake way too early so it's a lot easier to overtake.

 

[Alss]

Like your theory , but if that was the case why not use evenly matched cars ? Why have such a mismatched line up its even worse in arcade mode .

I like your theory but I don't except PD can't make a proper AI race system , GT5 took 5 years to make so they certainly had the time , the development team will not be able to use the excuse of poor frame rate for grid starts when GT hits the ps4 so lets see if the AI improve .
Other development teams work hard on improving the AI in there games and im not just talking about T10 even codemasters have tried to improve ok none are perfect but at least they try the same can not be said imo for Kaz/PD

 

[end12gt4]

look at this guy hes having so much fun, PD made this game for everyone if you want a challenge i suggest taking really underpowered cars ive gotten so many close finishes is a lot more fun just go with less 100pp or more than the limit, i noticed it gets harder and i went increasing my car's pp a lot because i was losing.

 

[mister dog]

I created a theory.

PD actually made AI too good so they had to use rubber band. We all have seen how potential this AI is. It is aggressive and it knows how to overtake.

So, PD can't use standing starts because it causes frame rate drop dramatically. There is just too many cars on the screen. You can see in gt500 cup how long gap is between car pairs.

As said, it's almost impossible to win these 2 lap races if you use equal car or little better. AI is too good if it drives its maximum speed. PD panicked and this rubber band AI was only way. They also made AI to brake way too early so it's a lot easier to overtake.

Poor PD, victims of almost everything they work with...
Let's all buy a 7 million credit pack, just to let them know we are there with them 👍.

 

[stb155]

So, PD can't use standing starts because it causes frame rate drop dramatically. There is just too many cars on the screen.

In the first few races there are only 6 cars, still rolling start.

Maybe there are to much crashes if 11 AI cars arrive at the 1st corner close together.

The problem is the combination of rolling start, 11/12th start position, way to short races and 50% of the opponents are just rolling chicanes.

They can keep the rolling start if they have to BUT:

Make it 6 cars maximum, all within 30LP (or 3% laptime or something).
Make the player start in 4th (maybe make position selectable to make it easier pr harder if necessary for some, bonus money for starting further back)
The AI should start with ~90% but as you come closer they step it up and drive as fast as they can (with the risk of making a mistake).
It should also be possible to force them in to a mistake by driving really close behind (up to IA at least, not in race car series).
And no waiting/slow down under the 90% !!!

Longer races ! If a opponent is equal you need time to get close and overtake.
At least 7laps at longer circuits, 10 or more on short ones like Brands Hatch.

 

[Aria]

In the first few races there are only 6 cars, still rolling start.

True, but they would have to change starting system when more cars joins races. Not so good idea to replace standing starts by rolling starts afterwards.

Maybe there are to much crashes if 11 AI cars arrive at the 1st corner close together.

I think this AI can play nicely. It avoids crashes pretty well. Of course sometimes it knocks me off the road but usually it's my fault because I made some quick move or I didn't keep my line.

 

[Alss]

look at this guy hes having so much fun, PD made this game for everyone if you want a challenge i suggest taking really underpowered cars ive gotten so many close finishes is a lot more fun just go with less 100pp or more than the limit, i noticed it gets harder and i went increasing my car's pp a lot because i was losing.

As has been explained in this thread many times now if you use a much lower pp car the AI simply slows down even more for you.

 

[stb155]

if you want a challenge i suggest taking really underpowered cars ive gotten so many close finishes is a lot more fun just go with less 100pp or more than the limit, i noticed it gets harder and i went increasing my car's pp a lot because i was losing.

Don't want to get on your nerves, just saying it again.

This is exactly what makes the problem only worse !

The leader (and all behind) start to slow down extreme if you are not close behind them after 50% of the race.
This is what always happens when u use a way slower car, you are 15sec. behind mid race and they start driving like pensioners with braking on the straights and so on until you overtake them.
Once you overtake them they start to bully you because they can go much stronger, so you have to block them.

I know you can have "close" races this way, but don't tell me this is any fun.

Try to take a equal car and the same tires they use (if you are good tires 1 step harder, car a little worse)
You will overtake the slow ones quickly and be close to the leader or 2nd by half of the race.
And now they will start to go faster and give you a real race !
I have seen the leader in front of me improve his time by 5sec. In a race.
I had the best races with this method, changing pos. with leader 3 times in the last lap and finishing only 0,2 in front (without blocking him !)

So again, AI starts at a medium speed, if you come close to the lead by half of the race you trigger "race mode" in them and they go faster, if you are way back half of the race you trigger "pity mode" and they will slow down until you are leader.

If you get them in race mode you can have really nice races, and they also not bump into you all the time because you are at the same speed.
If you use a little slower car than them you have to be good to beat them (MP4-12C on SS vs Huayra on RH)

I think this is how PD/Kaz intended it to be, the problem could be they simply did not see it coming that people would take it in to their own hands by using very slow cars and are always triggering "pity mode" on the AI.

 

[Alss]

Very well said ↑↑

 

[Spagetti69]

They usually overtake me while I am crashing|

Usually???

 

[MrUnknown]

Its called rubber banding. Old GT games did it.

I'm not a big fan but I'd much rather have at least a shot of a competitive race than the absolutely lifeless AI in the last GT games.

Also, as you progress through career, the "slowing down" they do to let you catch up becomes less and less.

And getting into your driving line, hitting you, and still going on...

... So frustrating

 

[quade420]

If they gave us a proper grid or rolling start instead of making you start 20 seconds behind the leader every time maybe they wouldn't have to slow down. The single player mode in this game is joke. Only reason I even bought this game was because of this site and the online racing leagues here.

 

[Lawndart]

I thought the same thing while doing the Kart 100 races. But I am not sure if this has something to do with the AI "getting tired" like in GT5 perhaps.
But yes I had that feeling that the AI slowed down like in Need For Speed or Burnout Paradise when they are away from you and suddenly you have them right there for you to catch.

That feeling was in the kart races though, the rest are easy and I never had to tune any of my cars not even get the top of the tyres allowed or go up to the PP limit. I´m always like 60/80 under the PP limit...yet the races last 2 laps and the third is just a "trip" to the finish line.
Some of the One Make races with 5 laps are more "difficult" but you can beat the AI at last in the 4th lap.

Gran Turismo "the real driving simulator" is marketing BS to excuse and deflect short comings. Once you are in the game, everything is a reference to racing.

I don't buy that "driving" crap anymore, and fear the vision of GT could be stigmatized by it.

 

[RC45]

The combination of rabbit chases setups and insane rubberbanding is driving me nuts. I've never seen that much rubber banding in any game ever. AI cars can literally slow down to 20mph in order for you to catch them (easily checkable when watching the replay, for example if you got off road badly and took your time to go back on track), and the moment you overtake them they go into Super Pursuit and try to overtake you with extreme prejudice.

It's just a freakin' pity. The game has it's faults (the tire model still kinda sucks, framerate issues, etc) but the track selection, day/night/weather, car list, and so forth are awesome. The career mode just plain sucks when you finally understand all races play the same (as long as your car is remotely competitive) : 3 laps race, start last, overtake the pack on first lap, see the leader maintain it's lead for the second lap, overtake him during the first half of third lap as he slows down () and prevent him from overtaking you during the last turns/straigths.

I mean, what's the point ?

If I spin out they still wait for me and I still overtake them in the end ?

Seriously ...

..and if they never ever slowed and you had no hope of ever catching them if you made a single mistake you would be bitching and moaning about that.

The point is to allow you to race to the line - after all, the only thing that counts in a race is who crosses the line first.

The real pressure and proper racing is when they are behind you and putting the pressure on. The catch-up is the formality.

 

[Tornado]

> "proper racing"
> game has rubber band AI


This thread just gets better and better.

..and if they never ever slowed and you had no hope of ever catching them if you made a single mistake you would be bitching and moaning about that..

They could... um... not start you 40 seconds behind the leader.



Oh, wait.

 

[RC45]

> "proper racing"
> game has rubber band AI


This thread just gets better and better.

Yes - the 'proper race' in the event on screen at the moment you re playing is when you actually dice with the AI - until then the event is just catch up.

And if you couldn't catch up to them then your whining would be even worse.

 

[Tornado]

Yes - the 'proper race' in the event on screen at the moment you re playing is when you actually dice with the AI - until then the event is just catch up.

So... here's an idea... don't start the player 40 seconds behind the leader and let that "proper race" occur from the start. Perhaps with some form of race option already in the game that lets you start from a standstill.


Though such a crazy thing would never work like it did in the first five games in the series.

And if you couldn't catch up to them then your whining would be even worse.

What, you mean if it actually took skill to win races in this game? No, I don't think I'd be complaining in that case. You can't even do the old trick of entering an atrocious car anymore.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

..and if they never ever slowed and you had no hope of ever catching them if you made a single mistake you would be bitching and moaning about that.

The point is to allow you to race to the line - after all, the only thing that counts in a race is who crosses the line first.

The real pressure and proper racing is when they are behind you and putting the pressure on. The catch-up is the formality.

Amazingly, I can go back to Gran Turismo 1 and experience a more natural race, with more of a challenge from the AI, and there's only five of them. PD implementing an utterly broken rolling start in the PS3 games and then exacerbating that by turning their infamous rubber-banding into an even more lop-sided mess than before is not a solution, nor is it progress. I should not be able to run a race in a (near-stock) Demio and be 8 seconds down from an Integra Type R entering the final two-minute lap, only to emerge the winner by two seconds - especially when I was never cutting more than two or three seconds off its lap times before that.

 

[Northstar]

..and if they never ever slowed and you had no hope of ever catching them if you made a single mistake you would be bitching and moaning about that.

Of course people would, that's why you go for the middle ground and make it possible to win, but not insanely difficult. There is just no justifiable reason for making it so I can go from -8 seconds to +2 in one lap with the PP limits in place.

I really don't get the mindset of people on internet forums, they can't seem to grasp the idea of a middle ground.