GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on March 16th, 2021 in the FIA WEC category.
Alpine Reveals A480 for 2021 FIA World Endurance Championship and Le Mans Challenge
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- chrisspeed281
Looks like a LMP2 Car for me .
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- 86,623
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- GTP_Famine
Which is odd, because although the Oreca 07 started out as an LMP2, the Rebellion R13 based on the Oreca 07 was an LMP1, and this is the Rebellion R13 but blue...
... which is covered in the article.
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- Paul2007
The planned opening round at 8h Portimáo has been rescheduled.
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- 230
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- TAU_PS
Here's the regulations in full: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/technical_regulations_lmph_2020_-_merge_v8_2019.10.23.pdf
From article 20.1 (page 65):
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- GTP_Famine
That's the 2019 regulations. Homologation is in Article 19 of the current regs:
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_lmh_wmsc_2020.12.16.pdf
And you misunderstand - the regulation is the opposite way round to what you think it is. If a car manufacturer wishes to homologate its road car for the LMH class, it must meet the production regs as cited. There's no requirement to do that if it's a race car in the first place.
This is part of why Aston Martin quit (by its own claims), and why SCG is on the withering side about the Alpine and the LMDh cars: they're making road cars to race in the class, while others are making race cars.
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- GTP_Famine
Honestly it's changed more often than I change my bedding. At the start everyone was "it'll be like 1997 again!" and now most of the cars are LMP1s in disguise. Even the ByKolles is only barely not the CLM (if it ever materialises).Ah, gotcha! Thanks for the clarification
I do wonder what Ferrari and Peugeot will do though.
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- NS_Zokeo_9
This is just me, but I'm actually glad that LMH & LMDh cars still have a resemblance of LMP in them. When I first heard about LMH I was afraid that it would be a load of Bugattis, Koenigseggs and the like and it would effectively look like another GT category. It's a shame that this Alpine A480 is the last of the LMP1's. I never really understood the people that say LMP's are ugly.
But I honestly can't wait for 2023 when we can potentially have Acura/Honda, Alpine, Audi, Bykolles, Ferrari, Glickenhaus, Peugeot, Porsche & Toyota all fighting for the win at Le Mans.
But I honestly can't wait for 2023 when we can potentially have Acura/Honda, Alpine, Audi, Bykolles, Ferrari, Glickenhaus, Peugeot, Porsche & Toyota all fighting for the win at Le Mans.
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I don't understand ACO. They created this "Hypercar" class so everyone was expecting some sort of GT1 era revival.. which was cool. But then regulations comes in and they decided top class must be on 3'30" lap times which is more than 15 seconds slower than Toyota's pole in 2017. Why decide for such a huge slow down in the top class? Expecially when nowdays so called hypercars are easily reaching 900+ hp figures. Why call a race class "hypercars" and then impose hp limit around 625hp ??? Safety reasons?
Is a Ferrari Fxx K or a McLaren P1 GTR really too dangerous to drive at Le Mans? I think everyone knows about that CLR back flip, so teams are demanded to use aero configurations to prevent sudden take off.
Is a Ferrari Fxx K or a McLaren P1 GTR really too dangerous to drive at Le Mans? I think everyone knows about that CLR back flip, so teams are demanded to use aero configurations to prevent sudden take off.
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No point comparing to Kobayashi's record, that was qualifying - the 3:30 target is for a race lap time. But anyway, the ACO have been trying to slow the cars down for years mainly for safety reasons (their reasoning, not mine!). The introduction of a new formula is the best time to reset, and they've decided that a 3:30 race lap is where they want the pace to be. They are also trying to keep costs under control, hence the introduction of BoP and a strict set of aero rules that put a hard limit on the amount of downforce a car can generate. LMP1 Hybrid as a formula died at least partly because the costs were getting totally out of hand.
Cars will have 670hp by the way, not 625.
At the end of the day, whether the cars are doing 3:20 or 3:30 laps, if the racing is good I'm not really bothered. These are not going to be slow cars, just not as fast as the old P1 Hybrids.
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Ok for the race pace point, safety reasons and costs under control, but why call it "hypercars" when at the end of the day you can still race with bop'd LMP1's like the Alpine? Does it makes sense? Just keep calling it LMP1 or something similar.
Are ACO aware about "car culture"?
It's like out of nowhere calling "pear" somwthing used to be called apple. If they say "hypercars" I think most of the people expect stuff like Koenigsegg, Pagani Huayra, Bugatti Chiron, Ferrari Fxx K, P1 GTR... so what about bop'd race ready versions of these cars sold to PRIVATE teams instead??
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- NS_Zokeo_9
The name of the category can be interpreted as the "Prototypes" are now no longer in a Prototype stage of development as the option to make homologation models is there again. From there these cars could only be classed as Hypercars as they're far faster than Supercars. Modified existing road cars wouldn't have anywhere near the competitive edge in terms of handling compared to purpose-built Le Mans Hypercars which is why Koenigseggs etc turning up is a bad idea. Those crs are built purely for top speed, and not really as much for handling and downforce as that would compromise top speed.
That's how I've understood LMH anyway
The Alpine A480 isn't an actual LMH anyway, even though WEC may brand it as such. It's what's called a "Grandfathered LMP1", which just meant that an LMP1 will be able to run during this transition year. After this year I believe that special provision will be gone.
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Originally, yes HyperCar was likely going to be a revisiting of the GT1 style cars...but the ACO has been struggling to get several manufacturers on board, so the regulations have been continually watered down to appease to more brands which have a set at the table of the ACO "working group" (or whatever they call it). The rules have changed considerably over the past 2+ years in which this has been developing.
The overall lap time at Le Mans is irrelevant if the racing is good and the cars are competitive with each other. I'd much rather see costs reduced to attract more manufacturers than some eye-watering lap time set as a technological showcase.
The overall lap time at Le Mans is irrelevant if the racing is good and the cars are competitive with each other. I'd much rather see costs reduced to attract more manufacturers than some eye-watering lap time set as a technological showcase.
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From a cost effective point the costant change of the rules are working against the efforts of those manufactures that actually tried to homologate a road going hypercar like Toyota. What's the point in 2021 to keep developing this completely new car when they already have one that won Le Mans with ease. They just need to bop 2020 TS050 LMP1.
LeGeNd-1
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Honestly in the current climate I don't think anyone would be bothered to homologate an actual road car for racing use (except Toyota because the GR Supersport is already done). Why go through all that trouble when you could just design a pure race car which performs better from the start, and save costs as well?
The Hypercar label is just a misnomer now. So disappointing.
While I agree it's a bit disappointing to see new cars being slower than old ones, faster cars doesn't guarantee good racing. In fact, as you can see from F1 faster cars usually means worse racing. Meanwhile, something like club Miata will guarantee door-to-door racing for days. A bit of an extreme example but you get my point.
Also, from a fan perspective you are not going to notice 15 seconds slower laptime. The La Sarthe track is just over 13 km so that equates to just 1.1 seconds slower per kilometer. Barely noticeable unless you're holding a stopwatch yourself.
