America - The Problems

  • Thread starter Thread starter ALPHA
  • 122 comments
  • 3,222 views
Originally posted by Klostrophobic
Okay, maybe that isn't the only reason for this war, but I'm sure the oil is a big factor. Bush clearly wanted a war and just needed a reason to go into a small war where very few people will die and he can make a little money. But, I think this war is actually needed to disarm Saddam if he in fact does have those big mother weapons. Even if he doesn't have weapons of mass destruction (love that euphemism), it's wise to go in and take care of him. He's clearly someone that isn't needed on this planet.

Bushie ain't as bad as I've pretended he is, but he certainly is no angel either. There is definitely a lot of corruption surrounding him.

Well, whatever.
Click to expand...

Oil is definitely part of it. A big one. If Iraq didn't have 25% of the known oil reserves on Earth there's be nothing remarkable about Saddam or his country. But he does. And oil is going to be very important for a very long time to come. I don't think any of us will live to see the industialized world shake free of it's dependence on oil.

See? Industrial world's dependence on oil... We can't let a phychopathic despot control one quarter of the indistrial world's main resource.

This is in stark contrast to the notion that Bush is going to take all of Iraqs oil for himself (or his country). That's absurd.
 
Originally posted by slip2rock
Talentless by name.......

Less than half of us even vote over here, so by simple reasoning less than half of us are intrested in polotics. Of the remaining half I'd say that less than half of those voting even have a basic understanding of why and who they're voting for and vote out of social conditioning rather than from reason.

I appreciate that you have some sort of issue over us "pinko" Europeans, but give us a damn break, have you any idea what kind of hole us Brits have dug for ourselves by backing up you Americans in this little war of yours? We've dug a social grave for ourselves as far as Europe is concerned.

So keep your damn petty snipes to yourself
Click to expand...

Does not the blatant message of your post make your personal attack seem hypocritical? But nevermind that. First, I want to point out that I never said Pinko. Pinko, in my understanding, refers to communist sympathizers; that was not who I was addressing. What I tend to do, and I am not sure this wrong as it surely helps with simplification and expedience in arguing, is to label, classify, or whatever, a group based on how similar it is to the defining characteristics I use to describe the political groups in my country.

And the central issue was oil and the logic of the argument that places it as the primary reason for US aggression. You seem to believe I label based on how people vote, I base it on more on their statements.

When you say "Pinko Europeans" is that based on the opinion that I classify everyone in Europe that way? If I do, I would say so.

I understand that you may be judged harshly by other states in Europe, and I wish you none of the fallout that supporting us may bring in addition to what you are probably facing now. And I understand your being offended by my smug comment, but I don't see a direct attack as fair, nor do I like having an opinion applied to me that I never expressed. I said far left, perhaps you think that means the same thing as Pinko, I do not, I may be wrong. And I really do not see how criticising someone's logic is as abusive as you seem to be making it out to be.
 
Originally posted by milefile
Oil is definitely part of it. A big one. If Iraq didn't have 25% of the known oil reserves on Earth there's be nothing remarkable about Saddam or his country. But he does. And oil is going to be very important for a very long time to come. I don't think any of us will live to see the industialized world shake free of it's dependence on oil.
Click to expand...


There is no question in my mind that independence is beginning now. It started in 1997 with the GM EV1, and so much research is going into efficiency and technology that - give it four generations - oil will soon be a thing of the past. I'd bet that we don't even use all of it.
 
Well, you know better than me. But it's hard to see when cars, at least, get less and less efficient every year, i.e. SUV's.
 
You're beating Sn00pie, M5? Would that be at the Fantasy F1 competition? Guess where I am at. :)
 
Originally posted by milefile
Well, you know better than me. But it's hard to see when cars, at least, get less and less efficient every year, i.e. SUV's.
Click to expand...

We'll see - I can see nothing but improved efficiency ahead for autos.

You're beating Sn00pie, M5? Would that be at the Fantasy F1 competition? Guess where I am at. :)
Click to expand...

By that smile, either first, last, or not playing.
 
For your information ALPHA, Bush is a dumbass and is just continuing the war that Bush Sr. started back in 92. He never got to make it into Baghdad and take out Saddam before everybody decided they were tired of his big stupid power trip and he had to stop. What Pres. Bush is doing right now is just continuing the Gulf War.

My theory: All the Bush's are total and complete Idiots. They think that this war will make everything all better, when in fact its just causing more pain and suffering for hundreds if not thousands of families all over the world.

This war is useless, but i support the troops and hope they all make it out okay.

As far as the revolution around the USA, the economy is mostly based off of us. When our economy drops, so does everyone elses. We are relied on by countries all over the world. Did you ever stop to realize that even NZ's economy is based on our countries economy?

I realize it may SEEM like the world revolves around our country, but it doesnt. We help people when they need help, and if anybody opposes us, we blow them to smitherines (Atleast, when a dumbass is the president. EX: Bushhole).

You dont want to respect our country, thats fine. Thats your own opinion. The reason your leaders respect our country is because of what we do for them.

Trust me man, if the USA was totally wiped out right now, the whole population of the world would drop dramatically, and so would the economics. We are the exporters of wheat and grain and other stuff to many underpriviledged countries. Why do you think we donate to other countries? Because we feel like it? No. Because we want to help them. We want to help the world become a better place.

The only time people do dislike us is when we have stupid people like Bush running our country and declaring war for no real good reason.

Anyway, i've yammered enough here. Think about this ALPHA.
 
Originally posted by DGB454
It started 12 years ago and has been an ongoing problem since then.

Again, We don't need approval from anyony to protect our interest and safety. I wouldn't expect your country to ask permission to protect itself. Maybe ask for helpbut not permission.
Click to expand...

So by protecting yourself your attacking a country. Meaning your the invaders not Iraq
 
Originally posted by Acid X
For your information ALPHA, Bush is a dumbass and is just continuing the war that Bush Sr. started back in 92. He never got to make it into Baghdad and take out Saddam before everybody decided they were tired of his big stupid power trip and he had to stop. What Pres. Bush is doing right now is just continuing the Gulf War.

My theory: All the Bush's are total and complete Idiots. They think that this war will make everything all better, when in fact its just causing more pain and suffering for hundreds if not thousands of families all over the world.
Click to expand...

The Gulf war was carried out to help Kuwait who was being attacked by Sadaam. It wasn't a power trip. The UN backed it. If you think that Bush Jr. is carrying on where his father left off then I guess that's your right to have that opinion. I guess that your "theory" is also just your opinion and you are entitled to it. But a "fact" it isn't. How many more people would suffer under Sadaam? My guess is millions of his own people not to mention the people who will eventually suffer on terrorist attacks he either finances or pays for after the fact.$25,000 to people who have a family member who has blown themself up as suicide bombers killing innocent people.(that's a fact he readily admits)

One other thing to keep in mind through this war so far. We are loosing more soldiers than we need to because we are being very careful not to kill civilians.(power trip?)
Sadaam is putting civilians in harms way to stay in power.(power trip?)

But I guess it's always easier to bury your head and call people idiots than find out the facts.

That's just my opinopn though. Take it or leave it.
 
Originally posted by Acid X

My theory: All the Bush's are total and complete Idiots. They think that this war will make everything all better, when in fact its just causing more pain and suffering for hundreds if not thousands of families all over the world.
Click to expand...


Sheesh - if you don't like the man's viewpoint on one issue it's completely absurd to call him an idiot based on that. Given that I don't like your above viewpoint, can I call you a jackass loser? It would be completely groundless.

Saddam Hussein has killed millions of people in his time in power. There is not one Iraqi citizen who does not know somebody killed by Saddam. Entire families have been wiped out by the man. As said earlier - if you leave him in power, you guarantee civilian death. If you take him out of power, there will be civilian death, but it won't be nearly as bad as it was with Hussein. Even the Red Cross says that just one civilian has died and that less than one hundred are injured. You're not old enough to remember the first Gulf War, but this one has been fought much better, especially in the air.

As far as the revolution around the USA, the economy is mostly based off of us. When our economy drops, so does everyone elses. We are relied on by countries all over the world. Did you ever stop to realize that even NZ's economy is based on our countries economy?
Click to expand...

Unquestionably, you overestimate the power of the US economy. Granted, said power is immense - but I would stop well short of noting that New Zealand's economy is based on this country's.

Trust me man, if the USA was totally wiped out right now, the whole population of the world would drop dramatically, and so would the economics. We are the exporters of wheat and grain and other stuff to many underpriviledged countries.
Click to expand...

Eh. Also not as much as you think. And - isn't our economy just as dependent? If the Middle East stopped importing oil how would we power our imported cars? Just about every first-world country has the ability to be independent - merely because we're larger doesn't mean we're more able.

The only time people do dislike us is when we have stupid people like Bush running our country and declaring war for no real good reason.
Click to expand...

Just because he doesn't know how to ride a horse doesn't mean he's stupid.
 
The only thing im trying to say is that Bush is continuing this war for his father. From what i DO know, Bush sr. was pretty pissed when he couldnt go take out saddam.

Bush jr. cant even read a speech right.. Why do you think so many people make fun of him? Lots of people think hes an idiot for who he is and for what he does... I would have voted for Al.

Anyway Mr. Millionaire, why dont you stop picking on me for my impulsiveness? Sheesh.
 
The one thing is, I'm glad Gore isn't in there now. We'd have solar power nightvision goggles and other environmentally safe stuff like that. They'd be locked up in that lockbox.

This isn't really a fake war, contrary to what I've been saying for about a year. Fewer people are going to die when Saddaam is killed, plus gas prices will drop for us. It's a win win situation.

I think I've been a liberal for the last few weeks. Eek.
 
Acid, speech impedements can affect anyone, from those with remarkable intelligence to those with little intelligence. By the logic of implying low intelligence is with those of poor syntax, Stephen Hawkins would appear to be lacking in intellect since he cannot speak at the normal speed of the average persons conversation. He is impeded from it by his condition.

I hope that no one here can factually call me an idiot, but I can say that I stutter a fair bit and have to read passages a few times because of an inadvertant errors I make. If I'm not considered dumb, my speech would not help in keeping that opinion.

It would be nice if all leaders spoke well, and sometimes Bush's gaffs are pretty bad, he should work on his speaking, which has improved, but it to often seems that the comments on his speech are more about spite from the left than about anything else. Isn't debating his policy more mature as a method to show inability to lead than pointing out that he said "is our children learning?"
 
Originally posted by DGB454
It's called a Pre emptive strike I believe. See it however you like.
Click to expand...

The bottom line is your not on a defensive your on a offensive stratergy so no matter what you say this is never gonna be a sign of protecting yourself
 
Originally posted by keeno_uk
The bottom line is your not on a defensive your on a offensive stratergy so no matter what you say this is never gonna be a sign of protecting yourself
Click to expand...

[half-joking]Duh, they are protecting themselves from further terrorist attacks.[/half-joking]
 
Originally posted by keeno_uk
The bottom line is your not on a defensive your on a offensive stratergy so no matter what you say this is never gonna be a sign of protecting yourself
Click to expand...
keeno the wonderfully intelligent being that you are:

Please explain to me what the British 8th Army was doing in Northern Africa during World War II. No attacks were ever launched on the British Isles from that location. Nor from Italy, for that matter. Yet you fought for long years in both places - Australian troops, too. Explain why that was heroism but the current war is idiocy.

Or do you think that England/America had no right/responsibility then either?
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
Please explain to me what the British 8th Army was doing in Northern Africa during World War II. No attacks were ever launched on the British Isles from that location. Nor from Italy, for that matter. Yet you fought for long years in both places - Australian troops, too. Explain why that was heroism but the current war is idiocy.
Click to expand...

I'll leave keeno to explain his views, but I can point out that this example is not really relevant.

The 8th Army was sent to North Africa to defend Egypt from the Italians. They dug in on the border and awaited the for the Italians to start the fighting. At the time, Egypt was a part of the British Empire, and as such Britain had an obligation to defend it.

Britain did not start the fighting against Italy, and it was the Italians who declared war against Britain. Mussolini fancied taking an African empire and declared war on Britain when only ally at the time, France, was doomed.

There were two other reasons for the importance of the N African campaign to the Allies. The Suez canal was critical for Britain in maintaining the fuel supplies necessary to wage war against the axis, so Britain tried very hard to ensure it wasn't captured. Also when the Italians started losing heavily, the Germans created the Afrika Korps to help them out. At the time it was the only way for Britain and the USA (let's not forget that the USA landed in North West Africa too) to help combat the Axis forces and ease the pressure on the beleagured Russians. Britain and the USA were not strong enough to land in Europe and fighting in North Africa was important for morale, particularly in Britain and Russia.
 
Originally posted by neon_duke
keeno the wonderfully intelligent being that you are:

Please explain to me what the British 8th Army was doing in Northern Africa during World War II. No attacks were ever launched on the British Isles from that location. Nor from Italy, for that matter. Yet you fought for long years in both places - Australian troops, too. Explain why that was heroism but the current war is idiocy.

Or do you think that England/America had no right/responsibility then either?
Click to expand...

okay please find any moment in this thread were I said anything about world war 2 and how righteous our country was during our battles with northern africa and Italy.

In the mean time stop putting bloody words into my mouth simple!!!!!

Thanks, Wastegate for straighting things out with this bloke :D
 
Originally posted by keeno_uk


In the mean time stop putting bloody words into my mouth simple!!!!!
Click to expand...

Just because somebody interpreted what you said doesn't mean they put words in your mouth. If you were misunderstood look at it as an opportunity to clarify and elaborate. Or not. But what you call "putting words in your mouth" is just how discussions go.
 
Wastegate: thank you for hitting the nail on the head. I really was well aware of that bit of history, and I admit it's not exactly parallel. But point was that if it's oversimplified to the point that keeno has done with the current war, it is not justifiable either. England was far afield in a colonial move and defending that "colony" by attacking an enemy in an area that was not directly threatening the motherland.

He is welcome to his opinion, of course, and I'm left wondering why I bothered. But he's really a walking demonstration of the pitfalls of an open franchise system of government.
 
Originally posted by milefile
Just because somebody interpreted what you said doesn't mean they put words in your mouth. If you were misunderstood look at it as an opportunity to clarify and elaborate. Or not. But what you call "putting words in your mouth" is just how discussions go.
Click to expand...

What that bloke decided to go off the Iraq war and talk about a world war 2 battle and then thinks hmmmmm keeno_uk is a hipercrit because he justifies the actions taken place during englands stay in north Africa sorry but I find that as "putting words into my mouth" which frankly gets to me :banghead:
 

Latest Posts

Back