American Le Mans Series Season 3

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You can't innovate on a budget....you can't create a perfect team on a budget...you can't develope a hybrid system on a budget.....P2 is cost capped for a reason, it's aimed at privateers who don't have a huge budget but want to race prototypes, P1 is for the manufacturers to play and if they spend more than others then so be it. Peugeots problems are not caused by how much they spend in P1, it's the financial problems PSA/Citroen is experiencing currently. If they weren't inn a bad shape financially then they'd still be racing at Le Mans..
 
Stavelot
As soon as you cost cap P1 you ruin it....
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i think its cost capping would invite even more manufacturers..

Companies will always moan and groan in public about cost capping, but lets be real, within there head quartersmanufacturers are really happy that there is a spending limit. Its a win lose situation. Atleast you know everyone is operating on the same budget...therefore if someone is faster than you then you probably have not used your resources efficiently enough. And it becomes a matter of repartinoing your resources rather than simply finding more of them which drives people out.

Its not like the cap has to be particularly low but just something reasonable.

P2 is cost capped at 300,000Euro? LMP1 can be significantly higher but im sure theres is a reasonable number that all teams might agree on.


Puegeot dropping the LMP1 program must be a direct result of there spending...If they were spending half of what they have supposedly spent last year and years prior then they owuld probably still be in sportscar racing....because at that point the marketing would definitely overcome the cost.
 
Stavelot
You can't innovate on a budget....you can't create a perfect team on a budget...you can't develope a hybrid system on a budget.....P2 is cost capped for a reason, it's aimed at privateers who don't have a huge budget but want to race prototypes, P1 is for the manufacturers to play and if they spend more than others then so be it. Peugeots problems are not caused by how much they spend in P1, it's the financial problems PSA/Citroen is experiencing currently. If they weren't inn a bad shape financially then they'd still be racing at Le Mans..
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Mitch that's been the excuse for manufacturers to pull out of racing for decades! They want an open budget because they think that by throwing obscene ammounts of money into it it will immediately win them everything. They hire the "best" out there, "best engineers, best drivers" but at the end of the day nothing will replace an experienced team like Audi. Under the current regulations it's just not gonna happen.
Offcourse there's innovation on a budget, more strickt regulations on budgets would definitely bring in more entries and better competition. They haven't really used anything new on the past decade, Audi saw a huge loophole in the rules with diesel power and went for it, the diesel engine hasn't evolved one bit from it, instead they dump huge ammounts of money into aero research and development wich will never find its way into production cars.
 
Blaze_409
damn. This means no Peugeot's at Sebring this year....ALMS fans love peugeot!
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It means yet another run away year for Audi and quite possibly the end for them too. There's no competition to make their wins legitimate and they've already broken every record and established the biggest racing dynasty in the history of Sports Car Racing, no need for them to keep dumping money into that program. Most likely a new car under the 2013 regulations will never be built.
 
The diesel engine hasn't evolved? Ok then Jav whatever you say....

IMO it'd be a bad idea to cost cap P1 but hey, that's just me.

Umm....Toyota? They've got competition for Le Mans and onward not to mention another well funded factory effort for next year and onwards. Audi isn't going anywhere....
 
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Stavelot
The diesel engine hasn't evolved? Ok then Jav whatever you say....

IMO it'd be a bad idea to cost cap P1 but hey, that's just me.
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Not really, sure they've improved a design for their race car aplication with superlightwheight materials and all that good stuff, but in reality the principle of opperation is still the same and the diesel engine development is and will continue to be driven by the trucking industry. If they've made such evolutionary leaps and improvements you would see more VW models including their flagship car the R8 being diesel powered don't you think?
 
Blaze_409
damn. This means no Peugeot's at Sebring this year....ALMS fans love peugeot!
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Meh. You mean the team that didn't bother racing most the season? They've got some good drivers, but I don't mind watching Dyson and Muscle Milk have a good battle. I do wish P1 was larger in ALMS, as well. But it was sometimes annoying when all you could watch for hours were R18s and 908s and Dr. Ullrich's face.
 
Jav
Not really, sure they've improved a design for their race car aplication with superlightwheight materials and all that good stuff, but in reality the principle of opperation is still the same and the diesel engine development is and will continue to be driven by the trucking industry. If they've made such evolutionary leaps and improvements you would see more VW models including their flagship car the R8 being diesel powered don't you think?
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Get your head out of the sand man and look at their lineup for this year.....new TFSI (which doesn't exist in trucking) diesels featuring a similar layout (hot side inside) as the engine from the R18. Oh, and remember the V12 TDI concept R8 Audi showed off?...
 
Peugeot doesn't do ALMS because it's irrelevant to them. They sell NO cars here in the U.S. Europe is struggling which is why they quit. Sucks but at least Toyota is here. Check the motorsports forums for some pics of their LMP1.
 
Stavelot
Get your head out of the sand man and look at their lineup for this year.....new TFSI (which doesn't exist in trucking) diesels featuring a similar layout (hot side inside) as the engine from the R18. Oh, and remember the V12 TDI concept R8 Audi showed off?...
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Good to see they are implementing new technologies, and I am glad they are going this route instead of the "green" hybrids, how good it will actually be it remains to be seen, but that's not the point. And yes I am aware of that concept, but it was just that, a concept wich probably won't see the light of day.
The reality is that as long as the ACO and sanctioning bodies across the globe continue to allow this astronomical spending manufacturers will come and go and at the end it only hurts the sport.
I hope you are right and Audi stays and beats the crap out of Toyota wich is the worst when it comes to throwing money arround and bailing as soon as they realize it's not working.
 
By that measure, BMW is the same. They've been in Racing for longer than you've been alive, Toyota that is. They've never won LeMans, but still stayed there. I guess you forgot about SuperGT/JGTC, which they've won multiple times. You forgot about IMSA GTP, which they won multiple times. You forgot about CART, which they won multiple times; I could go on, but hey Toyota quits when they don't get their way!
 
Really they should stay as long as competition isn't blowing them away, if it is giving them new technologies to experiment with in real life situations, although it is a lot of aero technologies and other things that will never make it to production models.
 
If anything, I can't wait for Porsche's factory return in Le Mans. :drool:I hope they're successful from the start of their return.:cool:
 
Audi's diesel tech has come leap and bounds in terms of particulate filters(r10,r15, r18 each evolving), variable geometry turbocharging(so cool) introduced in the R15 or R10(forget), common rail injectors, etc....Its really impressive and good read if your bored like I often am....

The diesel equivalent of the Toyota prius would knock the pants off of Mr. Akio Toyoda.....He is so lucky that none of his competitors utilize diesel engines. That thing would get circa 75mpg! Even more fuel to be saved if you do city driving. Low revs in a diesel is nonsensical fuel saving when it comes to city hubub.

Interestingly the R10 in GT5 does not show an diesel smoke on startup or anything.

Audi diesel isnt a facade. Its the real deal. If only america understood that.....an diesel wasnt so darn expensive.
 
freshseth83
By that measure, BMW is the same. They've been in Racing for longer than you've been alive, Toyota that is. They've never won LeMans, but still stayed there. I guess you forgot about SuperGT/JGTC, which they've won multiple times. You forgot about IMSA GTP, which they won multiple times. You forgot about CART, which they won multiple times; I could go on, but hey Toyota quits when they don't get their way!
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I remember when Toyota quit Formula 1 a couple years ago.
 
streetking24
I remember when Toyota quit Formula 1 a couple years ago.
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So do I! But I also remember when BMW quit F1 a year before that. And Honda. And Jaguar. Toyota was there for 7 years, they never won a race, but that's fine. F1 doesn't make the world go 'round.
 
Blaze_409
Audi diesel isnt a facade. Its the real deal. If only america understood that.....
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Jav has shown the perfect example of tye American ideaology, they think diesels are truck engines ans thus dirty, heavy and of no use to cars....
 
I dont think its neccesarily that. Im just such a car geek lol but I hardly know anything about actually designing those systems lol. That's what school is for! . dont get me started on Volvo's diesel engines and there sexy trucks.(Yes i think Volvo big rigs are sexy hehe!) Those things are damn clean!
 
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Oh come on Seth, Toyota has been buying their way in Motorsport for decades now. Their "secret" tests in Champ Car was one of the main cotributing factors that led to that series demise. They've tried doing the same in NASCAR, F1 and LeMans but it didn't work so well there and they pulled out just like they always do. And frankly I don't blame them, they enter a series to win at all costs and at the end of the day it isn't they fault. It all comes down to the sanctionig body to control the series and choose to cap the budget or not.
 
Jav
It means yet another run away year for Audi and quite possibly the end for them too. There's no competition to make their wins legitimate and they've already broken every record and established the biggest racing dynasty in the history of Sports Car Racing, no need for them to keep dumping money into that program. Most likely a new car under the 2013 regulations will never be built.
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How many times have they won at Le Mans?
Not 17 I don't think. Yes I mean 17. :dopey:

What will happen to all the cars they made?
Will Oreca still use them?

I have mixed feelings about the cap.
I forget what team it was. But they were low budget in either LMP1 or 2. They built the car themselves and drove it.
...and they won. Not because they had the fastest vehicle, but because they treated it like you're supposed to. The factory teams had just beaten on their cars all race while this team took it easy. No major failures or damage. Kept it on track all 24 hours.

This means no competition for Porsche either. No diesel competition like they want.
Wait for Porsche, you'll revoke all your statements about not bringing innovation to the road.
 
Stavelot
Jav has shown the perfect example of tye American ideaology, they think diesels are truck engines ans thus dirty, heavy and of no use to cars....
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I never said that Mitch, diesel can be cleaner than gasoline any day of the week. But the main market for diesel engines is the trucking industry.

gogatrs
How many times have they won at Le Mans?
Not 17 I don't think. Yes I mean 17. :dopey:


This means no competition for Porsche either. No diesel competition like they want.
Wait for Porsche, you'll revoke all your statements about not bringing innovation to the road.
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Sorry, forgot about the beetle! :p
 
Jav
Oh come on Seth, Toyota has been buying their way in Motorsport for decades now. Their "secret" tests in Champ Car was one of the main cotributing factors that led to that series demise. They've tried doing the same in NASCAR, F1 and LeMans but it didn't work so well there and they pulled out just like they always do. And frankly I don't blame them, they enter a series to win at all costs and at the end of the day it isn't they fault. It all comes down to the sanctionig body to control the series and choose to cap the budget or not.
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i dont think thats entirely true. F1 is the only place where Toyota really just threw money at an open fire. Not because they wanted to. But simply because they could afford to. They have sooo much money lol.

Toyota as well as other manufacturers quit Lemans indirectly asa result of the fact that FIA GT would not permit an "LMP1" category after much lobbying. So Toyota left and that meant no GT-One at Lemans anymore either.

Toyota is still in Nascar in the form of TRD(similar to HPD). In fact they jsut recelty poached an engine contract for Joe Gibbs racing and updated the bodywork kit to the new spec Camry.
 
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Blaze_409
Toyota is still in Nascar in the form of TRD(similar to HPD). In fact they jsut recelty poached an engine contract for Joe Gibbs racing!
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NASCAR is the american SuperGT, I really doubt they will pull from oval racing but wouldn't be surprised if they did.
 
Jav
NASCAR is the american SuperGT, I really doubt they will pull from oval racing but wouldn't be surprised if they did.
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lol thats so true! :crazy:. Goes to show where peoples minds are hehe. Take a Lexus, BMW, and Cadillac to tell you how culture influences the perception of "luxury"
 
At least super GT cars are somewhat like the production models. NASCAR cars are the same tube frame covered by slightly different plastic and stickers, all RWD with a 353 (I think) V8. Are there any V8 RWD Camrys, Fusions, Impalas, or any of those out there?
 
rb26x
At least super GT cars are somewhat like the production models. NASCAR cars are the same tube frame covered by slightly different plastic and stickers, all RWD with a 353 (I think) V8. Are there any V8 RWD Camrys, Fusions, Impalas, or any of those out there?
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Lol!! I have no love for NASCAR either.
 
Jav
Oh come on Seth, Toyota has been buying their way in Motorsport for decades now. Their "secret" tests in Champ Car was one of the main cotributing factors that led to that series demise. They've tried doing the same in NASCAR, F1 and LeMans but it didn't work so well there and they pulled out just like they always do. And frankly I don't blame them, they enter a series to win at all costs and at the end of the day it isn't they fault. It all comes down to the sanctionig body to control the series and choose to cap the budget or not.
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They are successful in NASCAR though.

But Toyota Camry. :yuck: New one is OK though. And I think Gatrs' Le Mans Forecast is slightly biased. :sly:
 
I'm just saying, diesel cars/hybrids in racing are pretty cool. But having only 2 teams capable of competing with each other and getting all the camera time the whole race gets old. Sad for Pug, but not the end of good racing in Le Mans series.
 
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