Anyone else dissapointed in Shift 2?

[Northstar]

Game does not come out yet and you are already disappointed ?? I'll hope that you will not play Shift 2, because i don't want to read some troll pointless remarks. Just don't play it, we want to have some fun with that game specially those who love it 👍

I think someone should go and read the thread from the start.

[/hint]

 

[Spagetti69]

Thanks Justin. Someones been following.

Anyone wondering, I'm looking forward to this too.

 

[tinram]

Game does not come out yet and you are already disappointed ?? I'll hope that you will not play Shift 2, because i don't want to read some troll pointless remarks. Just don't play it, we want to have some fun with that game specially those who love it 👍

How can you love it if it has not come out yet [ just turning the tables around ]? Unless you loved Shift1, then that's another story we do not need to get into.

By definition you can be disappointed if something has failed your expectations, and based on the released statemenst and videos ... one can be. But to love something you have not yet interacted with ... i guess that can happen too.

 

[ussr]

Yes I'm playing Shift 1 right now, preparing myself for Shift 2 and i absolutely love it !!! Arcade driving style is fantastic and i cannot wait for second Shift. Videos off-course did not give you full view of the product but still i have to admit that tracks and graphic looks fantastic, and how car behaves is excellent, just like in Shift 1.

There is to many unknown for current day and we all can't really say how this game would be. So this entire topic with all posts is useless, until game hits stores.

 

[tinram]

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on-the-spot/?event=today_on_the_spot20110312

10:40, Talking about helmet CAM ... "That's what we are falling back when we call this the most realistic racing experience there is ... that's what we are talking about."

Not really what i wanted to hear, I wanted them to say "the improve physics creates the most realistic experience ...."

 

[UkHardcore23]

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on-the-spot/?event=today_on_the_spot20110312

10:40, Talking about helmet CAM ... "That's what we are falling back when we call this the most realistic racing experience there is ... that's what we are talking about."

Not really what i wanted to hear, I wanted them to say "the improve physics creates the most realistic experience ...."

Why dont you email them to say what you want them to say next interview?

 

[tinram]

Why dont you email them to say what you want them to say next interview?

I guess you missed my point, that's okay, no need to worry about it.

 

[paulpg87]

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on-the-spot/?event=today_on_the_spot20110312

10:40, Talking about helmet CAM ... "That's what we are falling back when we call this the most realistic racing experience there is ... that's what we are talking about."

Not really what i wanted to hear, I wanted them to say "the improve physics creates the most realistic experience ...."

i think it has been clear since the beginning, with realistic they mean give a realistic atmosphere of racing. Physic however will surely be improved but won't be full simulation that can be called realistic.. and if i can say it i prefer having great immersion rather than full simulation and nothing else. I'm sure shift 2 will be an amazing compromise and a lot of fun.

 

[Destinkeys]

Let me repeat... There ARE no 'pure' sims on a console. Every console game is on a sliding scale from terrible to barely passable.

While perhaps S2U won't be as accurate in some regards than GT5, in other regards it will be better. I definitely remember that Shift didn't have the vastly exaggerated drafting that GT5 has. I have seen a LOT about how tire temps and deformation and suspension geometry is factored in for S2U (things that are ignored in GT5), and that tracks have 'marbles' off line. For every advantage that GT5 has over S2U, there will in all likelihood be something that S2U has over GT5.

And the bottom line is, NEITHER of them (nor FM3) is as accurate as something like iRacing. OTOH, you aren't paying through the nose every month to play them! And they have a FAR better selection of cars to drive around in, and, especially in S2U and FM3's case, a better track selection (less American, anyway!).

Tell you what... let's lay off the Carnac the Magnificent pronouncements until the game is actually OUT, eh? And show a little skepticism about your OWN game's physics, too...

 

[haehre]

Oh, come on, how can you criticize this kind of highly simulated and accurate physics???

 

[AnPrionsaBeag]

At least they got the shadow right...

 

[UkHardcore23]

Let me repeat... There ARE no 'pure' sims on a console. Every console game is on a sliding scale from terrible to barely passable.

While perhaps S2U won't be as accurate in some regards than GT5, in other regards it will be better. I definitely remember that Shift didn't have the vastly exaggerated drafting that GT5 has. I have seen a LOT about how tire temps and deformation and suspension geometry is factored in for S2U (things that are ignored in GT5), and that tracks have 'marbles' off line. For every advantage that GT5 has over S2U, there will in all likelihood be something that S2U has over GT5.

And the bottom line is, NEITHER of them (nor FM3) is as accurate as something like iRacing. OTOH, you aren't paying through the nose every month to play them! And they have a FAR better selection of cars to drive around in, and, especially in S2U and FM3's case, a better track selection (less American, anyway!).

Tell you what... let's lay off the Carnac the Magnificent pronouncements until the game is actually OUT, eh? And show a little skepticism about your OWN game's physics, too...

👍

At least they got the shadow right...

Lmao...WTF!!

 

[tinram]

Here's what i got from the responses from the quote i made from the shift video.
The fact that i was just commenting on their statement and not mentioned GT5 anywhere.

** If Shift2 does not do things right, GT5 sucks even worse.
** You can call yourself the best ever racing sim if you create a shaking blurring frame around the driver's view, because that's what makes things real.
** no need to focus on physics because "racing" is the most important aspect of shift.

Last i checked i was in the disappointment thread, not "......" thread.

 

[CarreraGT]

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/today-on-the-spot/?event=today_on_the_spot20110312

10:40, Talking about helmet CAM ... "That's what we are falling back when we call this the most realistic racing experience there is ... that's what we are talking about."

Not really what i wanted to hear, I wanted them to say "the improve physics creates the most realistic experience ...."

I was afraid that would be the case...

 

[Tweetman_277]

I think the main reason a lot of other racers like forza and shift dont have the real le mans, with its 24h racers, is because of all the gran turismo and playstation branding all over them. Look at the pescarolos. The team audi R8 has a gt4 spoiler... this sort of thing can get anything cross platform into serious trouble!

 

[Luminis]

I think the main reason a lot of other racers like forza and shift dont have the real le mans, with its 24h racers, is because of all the gran turismo and playstation branding all over them. Look at the pescarolos. The team audi R8 has a gt4 spoiler... this sort of thing can get anything cross platform into serious trouble!

What 'real Le Mans'? If you're talking about licensed race cars, Forza has them. The 'real' Circuit de la Sarthe as well. They just don't make you drive for a full 24 hours.

 

[Speedster502]

What 'real Le Mans'? If you're talking about licensed race cars, Forza has them. The 'real' Circuit de la Sarthe as well. They just don't make you drive for a full 24 hours.

Not to mention GRID had the 'proper' Le Mans race too.

 

[amar212]

Not to mention GRID had the 'proper' Le Mans race too.

Not even to mention great day/night transition.

And appropriate damage modeling as icing on the cake.

 

[Luminis]

The thing I remember about Grid the most were the (in my opinion) outstanding sounds, at least as far as the sounds from the suspension and whatnot goes.

Anyways, it wasn't a bad game at all... If Shift 2 turns out to be like Grid with more realistic physics and is a bit closer to the Gran Turismo formula, I'm going to love it, I guess.

 

[amar212]

Anyways, it wasn't a bad game at all...

Physics and rubberband AI were horrendous, but I guess they have learned their lesson in that department review and sales-wise.

What still intrigues me is that no talks about successor have been made. It was almost 3 years ago.

 

[Luminis]

Physics and rubberband AI were horrendous, but I guess they have learned their lesson in that department review and sales-wise.

Forgot about the rubberbanding, yeah. That's somethign they should've gotten rid of, too.

What still intrigues me is that no talks about successor have been made. It was almost 3 years ago.

I guess they're too involved with other stuff... But instead of a Grid 2, they should just go back to ToCa.

 

[Destinkeys]

I'm not sure what's worse... rubberbanding, or AI that just can't drive fast enough. I guess, for me at least, I'd rather race AI that can drive FASTER than me no matter what means they use to achieve it, than AI that tries to be more 'pure', but ends up so slow, you just can't have a real race with them.

Both are 'wrong', but only one of them has any use at all...

 

[amar212]

I'D always take slower AI than stupid rubberband.

With slower AI you can adjust your vehicle spec/way of driving in order to become competitive and provide yourself a challenge under laws of logic.

With rubberband AI you are forced to drive unnaturally, use every chance to gain advantage, do crazy manouvers and still not being able to benefit from your drive because AI is always on your tail and you can't gain from your skill.

 

[haehre]

http://gamer.no/artikler/80030/shift-2-gir-den-mest-realistiske-opplevelsen/

Marcus Nilsson stated in an interview with Norwegian magazine gamer.no that there is no rubberbanding code in S2U when he was confronted specifically with the rubber banding AI behaviour in Shift 1.

One can always claim that having an adaptive AI is a form of rubber banding in itself, but their adaption to your level of skill will happen after each race in S2U, and not while the race is going on like in Shift 1.

 

[Destinkeys]

I'D always take slower AI than stupid rubberband.

With slower AI you can adjust your vehicle spec/way of driving in order to become competitive and provide yourself a challenge under laws of logic.

With rubberband AI you are forced to drive unnaturally, use every chance to gain advantage, do crazy manouvers and still not being able to benefit from your drive because AI is always on your tail and you can't gain from your skill.

That SEEMS like it's logical, but in practice, amar, you end up overtaking GT5 cars every corner, then they overtake you on the straights (unless you drive like an idiot and block them unmercifully) and you have to use MUCH inferior cars, or ballast and restrict your car radically before you get there.

And basically, racing in the REAL world is generally cars with very similar specs and handling, battling each other VERY tightly. Look at any Grand-Am or ALMS racing. Three HOURS of racing, and the top cars are within a few car lengths of each other.

You can't do that in GT5. The AI is terrible in the corners, paranoid about hitting you (since the update) and slow down deliberately every time you touch them or pass them. You honestly prefer THAT? You are looking for the easy win, my friend...

Real racing IS close. Real racing IS getting yourself in tight corners, and having to try to pull off difficult passes just to have a chance at the podium. Real racing is so far removed from what you have to do in GT5 to not end up beating the pack by laps, not a car length or two, that it barely passes the definition of racing at all. 'Driving'? OK, I'll give you that. But what YOU want to do is NOT racing. It's entering a race against a cripple, and crippling yourself to not embarrass him.

 

[maxpontiac]

I'll start.

No tyre wear.
No pitstops.
Tracks seem wider than real life.
Trees look like mushrooms.
Seem to be some unstable frame rate on replays (xbox version).

I don't yet own the game as it has not been released. Just some early impressions and a place for criticism to go.

Cheers, rant away.

A disappointed thread already? No racing game is perfect, why not just enjoy them, or move on?

 

[Luminis]

I'D always take slower AI than stupid rubberband.

It depends of the kind of rubebrband AI, I think. If the AI never does stuff that their vehicle wouldn't be capable of and doesn't change their pace drastically during a single event, I wouldn't mind, really.

If the AI was to evaluate the player's pace and roughly adapted to that without doing it too obviously, that'd be even a plus in my book.

Either way, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. A fast AI shouldn't require rubberbanding, I think. Most importantly, there would be no reason to even do that if racing games weren't as much about taking first place as they are.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is: Stupid AIs are stupid, doesn't matter whether they're stupidly slow, stupidly rubberband-y or stupid line-followers. Personally, I wouldn't make much of a destinction between either of them. An AI's good or not, that simple.

A disappointed thread already? No racing game is perfect, why not just enjoy them, or move on?

There's a good reason the thread has been created, though Just read it for a bit.

It's entering a race against a cripple, and crippling yourself to not embarrass him.

👍

 

[tinram]

It's entering a race against a cripple, and crippling yourself to not embarrass him.

Most of the players of gran turismo would disagree. Try this .... Invite your friend who plays some driving games even gt5, set him up with a un-modified jgtc car turn assist off, and ask him to race the JGTC event. Unless all your friends are super racers, your friend will not get first place.

 

[Luminis]

Most of the players of gran turismo would disagree. Try this .... Invite your friend who plays some driving games even gt5, set him up with a un-modified jgtc car turn assist off, and ask him to race the JGTC event. Unless all your friends are super racers, your friend will not get first place, now tell him he is a cripple.

You need to be a super racer to win that? Really? I mean, okay, if you'
re playing with a DS3 and have ABS completely off, that's be the catch, of course, but that's more down to the lack of sensitivity of the controller.

But that's where an AI difficulty setting would come in handy.

 

[Destinkeys]

So far, in GT5, the only A-Spec race the AI was any challenge in was the FGT series. I trash everything else, same tires, no upgrades. I really DON'T consider myself an elite driver by ANY means. I get beat all the time online!

But I can't hardly find a race offline that isn't simply an exercise in beating up on a cripple. And, I'm sorry, but maybe you are going to a different GT Planet GT5 forum than me..! Complaints about the AI are by FAR the majority. Usually, it's excused with 'well, who plays offline anyway?', but no-one is leaping to the AI's defense. I am getting a little bit peeved when you bring up stuff that is patently untrue to bolster your position.

When you have to rabidly defend EVERY facet of a game, rather than sitting back and taking a more objective view of things, it's easy to see that ALL games have their flaws. S2U will, GT5 does, what's the problem? Does it upset you to think that GT5 might NOT be perfection incarnate? Sorry to burst your bubble..

When you have to deliberately cripple your car to get an even race, how is that anything but a ringing indictment of the AI system? Rather than getting all defensive, why not take that energy, and direct it where it needs to go? Not at people merely pointing out the obvious, but at the game developer that can't seem to achieve something most other racing games CAN.