Are you okay with GT5 going 720p native instead of 1080p?

[Raitziger]

nothing to do with refresh rate at all...



hehe, i love your confidence despite your incorrectness.

like resolution, the refresh rate of LCD/Plasma/DLP/etc HDTV's is a constant number, it is fixed...it cannot change...and there is NOTHING you can change about this...

in general most HDTV's that people have a 60hz...meaning they refresh at a rate of 60 times per second...now here comes the fun stufff....

we all know that to make video, it is simply a series of still frames, displayed continuously to create the effect that the image we are watching is actually in motion....60hz is generally considered to be plenty fast enough for the human eye to PERCIEVE that what it is seeing is a constant fluid motion...

there are two major flaws in the 60hz display....

1. Unfortunately some people still perceive a blur in the motion at 60fps...
2. Movies are filmed at 24fps (what you see in the theater)...Unfortunately...24 does not divide evenly into 60...because of this TV's need to perform 3:2 pull down in order to properly display the movie...that means each frame is not properly displayed...which is bad...

Now...enter the 120hz display...120hz displays always refresh at 120hz...and this is great because there are so many things you can do with them...

30fps material?...each frame is displayed 4 times in a row...awesome...
60fps material?...each frame is displayed twice...awesome...
24fps material?...each frame is displayed 5 times in a row...

this eliminates the need for any conversion or changing of the image and allows for the material to be displayed EXACTLY how it was intended...

Now...most sets also include some sort of motion processing...for example Samsung calls it AMP (auto motion plus). What these features do is actually CREATE frames that don't exist and slide them inbetween REAL frames in an attempt to further smooth out the motion...some like it some don't...this is an entirely different beast altogether...

there is NOTHING you can do to change the refresh rate of your TV...now that being said...not all 240hz sets are created equal some are not really 240hz and use tricks and gimmicks to simulate 240hz...

You really do not know much if you think modern LCDs still have to do 3:2 pulldown. And my z5500 supports 50Hz, 60 Hz and 24Hz content without pulldowns and makes it 200Hz, 240Hz and 96Hz.

 

[Metfanant]

no, its 1080i too.

no its not...it ACCEPTS 1080i...but it scales EVERYTHING to 720p. A TV can only display ONE resolution.

if you don't believe me then do this. Get as close to your TV as possible. You see those little black lines that create a grid pattern? Those are the pixels and there is a set number of them on each screen (native resolution). Now your set is a 720p (1280 x720) its actual native resolution is probably actually going to be something like 1366x768 (but regardless its 720p). You can count them all if you want but its going to take you awhile lol.

Now, feed it a 720p signal from your PS3. Look at the pixels very closely. Now feed it a 1080i signal from your PS3. Does the amount of pixels on the screen change in ANY way? The answer is No. There will still be 1280 horizontal pixels and 720 vertical pixels on the screen. The 1080i image is scaled to 720p. That is just how it works with ALL 720p/1080i LCD/Plasma sets...

from Cnet.com

All fixed-pixel displays are natively progressive-scan, meaning that even if the source is interlaced, they'll convert it to progressive-scan for display. That's why, for example, you'll hear about a "1080p LCD" but never a "1080i LCD."

You really do not know much if you think modern LCDs still have to do 3:2 pulldown. And my z5500 supports 50Hz, 60 Hz and 24Hz content without pulldowns and makes it 200Hz, 240Hz and 96Hz.

:::coughWRONGcough:::

i would love to know where you "learned" what you are talking about but you are flat out wrong...

yes modern LCD's most ABSOLUTELY have to perform 3:2 pulldown unless they are 120 or 240hz sets. A 60hz set MUST perform 3:2 pulldown because it can only refresh at 60hz. Meaning it cannot properly display 24fps material. There is NO OTHER WAY for a 60hz HDTV to display 24fps material than to perform a 3:2 pulldown...

you can't even get the specs on your own TV correct...

the z5500 is a non-US model and therefore uses a 200hz engine. Meaning your TV displays EVERYTHING at 200hz. The Motion Flow engine on your TV inserts new frames that IT CREATES inbetween the real images to bump the frame rate to 200hz. Your set CANNOT do 240hz, or 96hz, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for it to do this. What it can do is ACCEPT many different refresh rates and increase them to 200hz which is your panel's refresh rate.

this is a chart created by Sony to show how the Motion Flow 200hz engine handles a regular 50hz PAL TV signal. It works just the same for every other accepted refresh rate.

 

[Raitziger]

.
the z5500 is a non-US model and therefore uses a 200hz engine. Meaning your TV displays EVERYTHING at 200hz. The Motion Flow engine on your TV inserts new frames that IT CREATES inbetween the real images to bump the frame rate to 200hz. Your set CANNOT do 240hz, or 96hz, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE for it to do this. What it can do is ACCEPT many different refresh rates and increase them to 200hz which is your panel's refresh rate.

I count 24p native compatible sets as moder sets.
All EU TVs support 60Hz and "200Hz motionflow" is just a marketing term. My PS3 outputs 60Hz and motionflow works very nice with it. New sets have timing circuits for 24Hz 50Hz and 60Hz and they all work with motionflow.
And my TV supports 24Hz nativly so it displays it without telecine judder (3:2 pulldown) If you use motionflow with bluray it makes it 96Hz (as does US model of this telly) Some plasma TVs also support native 24Hz input and display it in 72Hz like pioneer does.

200Hz marketing term is just used because PAL system 50Hz and people are here familar with it. Go to ask avsforums.com this if you still do not believe.

 

[Metfanant]

I count 24p native compatible sets as moder sets.

bahaha...so now were are going to just throw out the majority of sets sold in the world because they don't fit at all into your belief of how HDTV's work?? lol ok i'll run with it...

All EU TVs support 60Hz and "200Hz motionflow" is just a marketing term. My PS3 outputs 60Hz and motionflow works very nice with it. New sets have timing circuits for 24Hz 50Hz and 60Hz and they all work with motionflow.

this is true, but they CANNOT change their refresh rate. Its IMPOSSIBLE it just does not work that way

And my TV supports 24Hz nativly so it displays it without telecine judder (3:2 pulldown) If you use motionflow with bluray it makes it 96Hz (as does US model of this telly) Some plasma TVs also support native 24Hz input and display it in 72Hz like pioneer does.

200Hz marketing term is just used because PAL system 50Hz and people are here familar with it. Go to ask avsforums.com this if you still do not believe.

you're missing the point entirely...all the intricacies of how the bravia engine/motion flow work aside it makes no difference for this discussion...it is a fact that a panels refresh rate is a set number...it doesn't change...

Sony's 24p true Cinema is an interesting feature...and nobody really knows how it works outside of Sony's labs....but it can't actually change a set's refresh rate...

 

[Dr.Boss.]

If GT5 is not true 1080p i will be upset. This is one of Sony's flagship franchises, it is the future of HD gaming, and anything less than 1080p would be unfortunate.

720 is par for the coarse, it is standard, it is xbox 360 territory. The PS3 can do better. GT5 should exceed the average, it should best the the competition. I am confident we will see true 1080p running at 60fps.

Lets count pixels,
1920x1280 = 2,457,600 pixels
1280x720 = 921,600 pixels

A difference of 1,536,000 pixels....... so, who wants 720?

 

[Metfanant]

If GT5 is not true 1080p i will be upset. This is one of Sony's flagship franchises, it is the future of HD gaming, and anything less than 1080p would be unfortunate.

yet none of Sony's flagship titles are 1080p...not Uncharted, not Uncharted 2, not Resistance, Resistance 2, Ratchet and Clank, Metal Gear Solid 4, or Killzone 2....

720 is par for the coarse, it is standard, it is xbox 360 territory. The PS3 can do better.

the PS3 is not THAT much more powerful than the 360

GT5 should exceed the average, it should best the the competition. I am confident we will see true 1080p running at 60fps.

this i agree with

Lets count pixels,
1920x1280 = 2,457,600 pixels
1280x720 = 921,600 pixels

A difference of 1,536,000 pixels....... so, who wants 720?

but there is so much more to the visual presentation than that....if i can trade 1080p in and in return receive better texture resolutions, higher, more steady frame rate, more dynamic weather, more cars on the track at a given time, etc...ill gladly make the trade...

 

[SETWAVE]

If anyone can, PD can.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

If Gran Turismo 5 isn't in 1,000,000,080p , I will not buy it. Ever!

 

[Raitziger]

this is true, but they CANNOT change their refresh rate. Its IMPOSSIBLE it just does not work that way

You tell why it is so diffucult to have multiple timing circuits in panels? Of course any electronic device has max frequency it works with but there is no reason why you could not lower it. In fact i can change my monitor's refresh rate with click of a button and putting to low makes my eyes bleed (crt )

Go to pioneer site to verify that they output 24p picture in 72Hz which is impossibe
Pioneer has multiple drive modes for different signals : http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP-LX5090/Operation.htm

Same site tested my tv said there was no telecine judder on 24Hz material and i can verify that. You can not remove telecine judder unless refresh rate is multiple of 24.

 

[JackC8]

Personally, 720p would be fine, since that's what my TV is.

 

[tomivav]

It's gonna be good for me. Since I still don't own an HDTV, it'll be easier to buy 720p one knowing that that's good enough, especially when you don't have that much money to afford 1080p TVs.

 

[Metfanant]

You tell why it is so diffucult to have multiple timing circuits in panels? Of course any electronic device has max frequency it works with but there is no reason why you could not lower it.

because if it was SO EASY then there would be no need for manufacturers to bother with 120hz or 240hz sets when they could have just taken 60hz sets and allowed them to also output 24hz...

In fact i can change my monitor's refresh rate with click of a button and putting to low makes my eyes bleed (crt )

CRT is an ENTIRELY different beast...notice on your CRT you can also change the resolution??...CRT panels are fundamentally different than fixed pixel displays...they display the image entirely different...

Go to pioneer site to verify that they output 24p picture in 72Hz which is impossibe
Pioneer has multiple drive modes for different signals : http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP-LX5090/Operation.htm

You're also talking about Kuro which is the top line of flat panel TV's in the world...we are not talking about a mid level CCFL Sony LCD here...

Same site tested my tv said there was no telecine judder on 24Hz material and i can verify that. You can not remove telecine judder unless refresh rate is multiple of 24.

And there are websites that claim Sony's 24p Pure Cinema does nothing to change the picture, so what is your point? in fact nobody really knows how Sony's Pure Cinema feature works...

 

[TokyoDrift]

It's gonna be good for me. Since I still don't own an HDTV, it'll be easier to buy 720p one knowing that that's good enough, especially when you don't have that much money to afford 1080p TVs.

If you can afford a PS3 and games for it, you can afford a 1080p TV. Even small sets are becoming more and more common at that resolution. After all, PC monitors have been at that resolution or higher for years now.

 

[tomivav]

If you can afford a PS3 and games for it, you can afford a 1080p TV. Even small sets are becoming more and more common at that resolution. After all, PC monitors have been at that resolution or higher for years now.

No.
You see, I still don't have a PS3. I wanted it badly since it came out, and especially when GT5P came out. I waited patiently for more than 2 years now.
I plan on buying it during holidays. Since I saved some money, and (thank God) will get some scholarship - finally I'll be able to afford a PS3.
And I can't afford games. I'll only play GT5(P) - that's the reason why I'm buying the console.

It's not that simple as you think...

 

[Dravonic]

No.
You see, I still don't have a PS3. I wanted it badly since it came out, and especially when GT5P came out. I waited patiently for more than 2 years now.
I plan on buying it during holidays. Since I saved some money, and (thank God) will get some scholarship - finally I'll be able to afford a PS3.
And I can't afford games. I'll only play GT5(P) - that's the reason why I'm buying the console.

It's not that simple as you think...

Well it is quite simple at US... so they assume it's easy anywhere. They just don't know how lucky they are

I've laughed my ass quite hard every time I saw someone complaining that 400$ was too much for a PS3

 

[cletus 669]

Well it is quite simple at US... so they assume it's easy anywhere. They just don't know how lucky they are

I've laughed my ass quite hard every time I saw someone complaining that 400$ was too much for a PS3

No crap! I bought mine in the US before the price reduction, with GT5P and an HDMI cable it cost me just un der $800 US dollars! Two weeks later they dropped the price by $100 bucks! I am just lucky that I already had a wheel from GT4 days.

 

[Metfanant]

No crap! I bought mine in the US before the price reduction, with GT5P and an HDMI cable it cost me just un der $800 US dollars! Two weeks later they dropped the price by $100 bucks! I am just lucky that I already had a wheel from GT4 days.

you got ripped off somewhere along the line....

even at launch the PS3 was $599.99 + $59.99 for a game is only $659.98...even with tax just under $800 is CRAZY.....how much did you spend on that HDMI cable??!!

 

[Dravonic]

you got ripped off somewhere along the line....

even at launch the PS3 was $599.99 + $59.99 for a game is only $659.98...even with tax just under $800 is CRAZY.....how much did you spend on that HDMI cable??!!

Only if he lives in the US. Things are different in other countries. You see, I live in Brazil and I paid the equivalent of 1200$ on my PS3 alone.

EDIT: Oh wait... it was the MSG4 bundle so PS3 + MSG4

 

[pLiDeX]

i have a samsung 23" 1080p so i would prefer it to be 1080p, if it is 720p it must have very good anti aliasing, for me jaggy edges can ruin a game

Only if he lives in the US. Things are different in other countries. You see, I live in Brazil and I paid the equivalent of 1200$ on my PS3 alone.

EDIT: Oh wait... it was the MSG4 bundle so PS3 + MSG4

1200?! i guess when it came out, i'm from uruguay, here the first ps3 were sold at $1000, now the PS3 slim is sold at $600

 

[Tornado]

Only if he lives in the US. Things are different in other countries. You see, I live in Brazil and I paid the equivalent of 1200$ on my PS3 alone.

If his profile information is correct, he does live in America.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Only if he lives in the US. Things are different in other countries. You see, I live in Brazil and I paid the equivalent of 1200$ on my PS3 alone.

EDIT: Oh wait... it was the MSG4 bundle so PS3 + MSG4

I got that bundle, too! It was $545 last year (July 2nd)

I live in the U.S., by the way.

 

[Caliber]

what about 1440 lol!!

 

[WolfRacer543]

If you can afford a PS3 and games for it, you can afford a 1080p TV. Even small sets are becoming more and more common at that resolution. After all, PC monitors have been at that resolution or higher for years now.

Alot of people buying them can't really "afford" them in the sense they buy them with most of the savings they have. When I was younger I actually paid for most the stuff I owned out of my allowance or doing small jobs for a few bucks here and there, and bigger more expensive things I might swing a deal with my parents (though they didn't like buying me things that'd see me sitting in the house infront of the TV all day ).

You can't assume just because someone has $500 they can drop on a PS3 + a game they can afford to also buy a $900 1080p TV, or WANT to buy a $250 1080p PC monitor when a 720p TV actually gives far better quality images (I know playing games on my friends 720p 32" TV is far better than playing at 1080p on my 24" PC monitor). Note I used Aussie prices because I dont know the prices of TVs, monitors and a PS3 in the US

 

[myke6699]

You can't assume just because someone has $500 they can drop on a PS3 + a game they can afford to also buy a $900 1080p TV, or WANT to buy a $250 1080p PC monitor when a 720p TV actually gives far better quality images (I know playing games on my friends 720p 32" TV is far better than playing at 1080p on my 24" PC monitor). Note I used Aussie prices because I dont know the prices of TVs, monitors and a PS3 in the US

For a good LCD TV, you should always checkout what's available used or better still local craigslist(ing)s. Of course the term "caveat emptor" becomes more pertinent. I bought my Sharp Aquos (1080p), Nikon Scanner (9000ED) and paid almost 1/2 what the shops usually charge. But as always, you get what you pay for.

 

[TokyoDrift]

No.
You see, I still don't have a PS3. I wanted it badly since it came out, and especially when GT5P came out. I waited patiently for more than 2 years now.
I plan on buying it during holidays. Since I saved some money, and (thank God) will get some scholarship - finally I'll be able to afford a PS3.
And I can't afford games. I'll only play GT5(P) - that's the reason why I'm buying the console.

It's not that simple as you think...

Yes it is. If you can't afford a PS3 and games, you can't afford a TV. If you can afford a PS3 and games, you can afford a TV. Anything else inbetween just means your priorities are messed up.

 

[Dr.Boss.]

Who cares what you or him, or her, or it CAN and CANT afford?

Personally i have a money tree at my house. Every fall i rake Benjamin's out of my front yard and throw them in the compost pile behind my house... sure enough they biodegrade into SOLID GOLD BARS.

thats how you do it.

Once all that free money acquisition happens, everyone go buy an EIZO monitor.

 

[Seismica]

Yes it is. If you can't afford a PS3 and games, you can't afford a TV. If you can afford a PS3 and games, you can afford a TV. Anything else inbetween just means your priorities are messed up.

And where do you stand? I'm assuming you can afford both otherwise you would understand where the others are coming from. lets say £250 for a PS3 slim, £30-50 for the game and £400 for a 1080p 32" HDTV. if i have £300, which is enough for a PS3 and a game, so i can afford the game and the PS3. But i would still need £400 for a TV so therefore i can afford a PS3 but not a HDTV.

And about the PS3 release in different locations, the PS3 in the UK was launched at £425. At the time the exchange rate was £1 Sterling to $2 US, to we effectively had to pay $850 for the console alone. And it did not come with a HDMI cable either. I'm sure others had it worse. But just highlighting how good you guys have it in the US, everything is cheaper, and your average and minimum wages are higher too.

 

[the.hatter]

Yes it is. If you can't afford a PS3 and games, you can't afford a TV. If you can afford a PS3 and games, you can afford a TV. Anything else inbetween just means your priorities are messed up.

I agree. Consider buying a used TV, or a 720p set. Sell some stuff on Ebay. Save your allowance, or pick up some extra shifts at work, etc.

Or consider an LCD Monitor - I bought a 23" one for $200 that does native 1920x1080. It doubles as my PC monitor - and unlike WolfRacer, mine looks phenomenal. 1080p on it is noticeably better than 720p I've seen on LCD TV sets.

Now if you want to compare LCD to plasma to CRT, then that's a whole other conversation lol.

 

[Dr.Boss.]

Things surely are cheaper in the US than in the UK.
Another interesting point is that the aforementioned money tree is not an indigenous species of England... which is also unfortunate for you.
Although, as with everywhere in the world, the fabled sugar-momma must exist. CaaaCHING!

-i will shut up now. Check out Newegg.com, they have some pretty awesome deals on high quality LCD and plasma televisions. You will be surprised what 500$ can get you.

 

[ItsHim]

It's a video game, not a slide show, so I will be more than happy with some crisp and flaw free smooth video display - no matter the resolution it comes in.

Ever since I got a review copy of a movie carefully encoded to DVD standards originating from some industrial strength high resolution source material I ceased to believe that resolution alone can make or brake any moving images.

Besides, I'd rather spend some extra cash on a better 5.1 sound system than the same amount of money for a higher resolution TFT TV. But that's kind of off-topic I guess.