Assetto Corsa Porsche Videos: Cayman GT4 & 911 RSR

[Nielsen]

Driving a Alfa 4C in AC isn't funny, and it seems heavy. In real life it's funny, alive and light, why ?

I drove the 4C in AC today and I caught myself appreciating how agile it is.

 

[oneloops]

Ok, the download of the game is almost finished, i'll give it a try again

For the moment I only drove the Abarth, Giuletta, M3 '90 and the FKK (the only available at the first part of the ps4 download).

At this point, i feel that AC is smoother and better than before, but i'm still thinking that the weight physics and the speed feel are still under the real life feel.

 

[Scaff]

I agree with you in the huge lack of detail in gt6's force feedback.

Not in the other points. Even if AC is a peace of art (i think so) and it merits all our recognition of their work and their simulation aproach.

I know it's difficult to understand or agree with my opinion when in this case one has a huge level in details in force feedback (AC) and the other GT6 has a lot simple force feeback, but for me the feeling of weight and reactions are alive (like in real life) in gt6. Even the Abarth in AC doesnt feel as agile like it is.

I would be quite happy to agree to disagree with you had it not been the case that you had also made some rather extreme claims about it being 'unreal', requiring too many constant steering and throttle inputs and it being impossible to complete even two clean laps.

So a little evidence in that regard, six laps of Magione in a 4C, both with and without ABS and TC, running street tyres without tyre blankets being used.

Then as that's not too challenging, two laps of Imola in an Elise SC with and without TC. As I run a H pattern shifter and auto clutch is switched off that means heel and toe shifts, without TC on a track known for its off camber corners and tricky braking zones.

They were both light, nimble and communicative to drive, with the Elise having the edge in that regard, which mirrors my own experience with the two.




Now what I would also suggest is posting your settings for your wheel, as AC has the ffb set far to high as a default.

 

[oneloops]

@oneloops please post your wheel settings, good chance something is totally off.

I've played with default settings in ps4 version. I've tested "Enhanced Understeer Effect" and slip effect at 50% in FF settings.

FFB is great, rich and detailled, exciting and very enjoyable (far away better than other sims). I think that is not a problem with the steering wheel but about perception of reactions of cars and physics, in real life vs AC.

 

[oneloops]

I would be quite happy to agree to disagree with you had it not been the case that you had also made some rather extreme claims about it being 'unreal', requiring too many constant steering and throttle inputs and it being impossible to complete even two clean laps.

So a little evidence in that regard, six laps of Magione in a 4C, both with and without ABS and TC, running street tyres without tyre blankets being used.

Then as that's not too challenging, two laps of Imola in an Elise SC with and without TC. As I run a H pattern shifter and auto clutch is switched off that means heel and toe shifts, without TC on a track known for its off camber corners and tricky braking zones.

They were both light, nimble and communicative to drive, with the Elise having the edge in that regard, which mirrors my own experience with the two.




Now what I would also suggest is posting your settings for your wheel, as AC has the ffb set far to high as a default.

Thank you Staff for your comment and for your video !

I've wrote my seetings (T500RS+PS4) in my last comment (upside this one).
What do you recommend then ? Half the strengh of defaults settings maybe ?

Sorry for my criticism i try to write as friendly as i can and with all my respect for AC that is a great simulator for me and a great game. Let me comment some facts about your video ( friendly, don't worry ) :

I see that you don't touch the apex in many corners with the 4C, you don't go as exterior as it should in corner exits neither in corner entries. I'm sure that you and I, in a track day, we can manage that with a 4C in every corner (with some exceptions of course).

I'have sometimes the same problem with cornering in AC, i can more or less take a good corner line but sometimes its a little randomly with the car physics...

With GT6 i can manage better that line, it's more predictible, like in real life.

Also in real life you wouldn't interrupt your throttle input in exits (without a spinning problem) like in minute 0'57" and 2'37".

Sorry, but the car action at 1'18" seems too unreal for me. That's the kind of things it doesn't happen in real life.

5'45" : Breaking without abs 79mph ... That's not the way tyres blocks without abs in a good car with good tarmac in real life. Even if you brake hard (not at 100%) you don't get that reaction, tyres blocks after a little time when you exceed the grip, not in that instantly way.

(It's not a critic about your driving, it's about physics and car reactions in AC )

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've played with default settings in ps4 version. I've tested "Enhanced Understeer Effect" and slip effect at 50% in FF settings.

FFB is great, rich and detailled, exciting and very enjoyable (far away better than other sims). I think that is not a problem with the steering wheel but about perception of reactions of cars and physics, in real life vs AC.

You really need to post all your wheel and FFB settings. If you have slip effect at 50% that's 50% higher than me (I'm at 0%) and higher by far than anyone else I know of. Many, or even most of us on pc, run it at 0%, same with the rest of the FFB settings, or, in some cases, an added 5-15% detail. Those numbers are on top of the base, natural FFB. At 50% your FFB is going to be dominated by the rear of the car, perhaps this is what's leading to your feelings about the game. Post your wheel and FFB settings.

 

[oneloops]

You really need to post all your wheel and FFB settings. If you have slip effect at 50% that's 50% higher than me (I'm at 0%) and higher by far than anyone else I know of. Many, or even most of us on pc, run it at 0%, same with the rest of the FFB settings, or, in some cases, an added 5-15% detail. Those numbers are on top of the base, natural FFB. At 50% your FFB is going to be dominated by the rear of the car, perhaps this is what's leading to your feelings about the game. Post your wheel and FFB settings.

My wheel settings are defaults ones (ps4) and my FFB settings was defaults one too. I agree with you that default settings are too strong. I'll try yours, Thanks !!!

Edit : After 2 laps with the FXX K in Barcelone's moto track, it's awesome with the half of every default strength setting + "enhanced understeering effect" and 0% slip effect. Thank you Johnnypenso ! Now i can feel the point between lateral grip and the loose of lateral grip, with the defaults settings it was very difficult to feel that.

Edit2 : Having fun with the FXX K in Barcelone's moto track 1'45"7 with no aids (only factory abs)
With low levels of FFB (half of defaults settings) all is more refined and enjoyable.

 

[Johnnypenso]

My wheel settings are defaults ones (ps4) and my FFB settings was defaults one too. I agree with you that default settings are too strong. I'll try yours, Thanks !!!

Edit : After 2 laps with the FXX K in Barcelone's moto track, it's awesome with the half of every default strength setting + "enhanced understeering effect" and 0% slip effect. Thank you Johnnypenso ! Now i can feel the point between lateral grip and the loose of lateral grip, with the defaults settings it was very difficult to feel that.

Edit2 : Having fun with the FXX K in Barcelone's moto track 1'45"7 with no aids (only factory abs)
With low levels of FFB (half of defaults settings) all is more refined and enjoyable.

Do you understand that the base FFB, the FFB provided directly by the physics engine is everything at 0%? Everything above 0% is an exaggeration of the base FFB. I believe the kerbs effect is also partly a canned effect. If you want to know what AC really feels like you need to set everything at zero and then work from there. You should still post all of your settings. We're trying to help but you are making it unnecessarily difficult.

 

[oneloops]

Do you understand that the base FFB, the FFB provided directly by the physics engine is everything at 0%? Everything above 0% is an exaggeration of the base FFB. I believe the kerbs effect is also partly a canned effect. If you want to know what AC really feels like you need to set everything at zero and then work from there. You should still post all of your settings. We're trying to help but you are making it unnecessarily difficult.

I've posted my settings 3 yet, the AC defaults ones, and default for the wheel T500RS (i'm using PS4's AC).

But ok, here the AC defaults one picture : http://hpics.li/7b4f182

And here the all at half of strength+"understeer effect ON", that's i'm using now and i'm very happy with it :

http://hpics.li/48d4442

All aids off except factory abs.

Now i understand your explanation about 0% at FFB and work from that. Thank you, i will work with that base.

Thank you again !

 

[ALB123]

I didn't watch all of Scaff's video... but I think the issue at the 1'18" mark had to do with Scaff dabbing the brakes about 35% while he was turning/beginning his corner entry. That's my guess, anyway...

The other two issues about blipping the throttle through a turn, I believe various factors come into play here - grip of the tires, balance of the car (biggest factor, probably) and then how much torque a car has. I don't think little blips of the throttle should spin a 4C the way an older 911 might.

I might be wrong about all of these things. These are just my thoughts....

 

[Scaff]

I see that you don't touch the apex in many corners with the 4C, you don't go as exterior as it should in corner exits neither in corner entries. I'm sure that you and I, in a track day, we can manage that with a 4C in every corner (with some exceptions of course).

I'have sometimes the same problem with cornering in AC, i can more or less take a good corner line but sometimes its a little randomly with the car physics...

Now aside from you moving the goal posts in regard to this (you simply said it was not possible to put in two clean laps, so I'm not sure why you are now adding in further conditions to that) you are saying that you are able to take a car to a track on cold street tyres and hit almost every apex perfectly? Quite a bold claim indeed.

With GT6 i can manage better that line, it's more predictible, like in real life.

The 4C isn't a predictable car in reality.

Also in real life you wouldn't interrupt your throttle input in exits (without a spinning problem) like in minute 0'57" and 2'37".

Nor is it one known for being adjustable on the throttle.

"On a smooth track, the steering no longer tries to divert you off your chosen path, however it still feels numb. The rest of the experience is much the same as on the road, but exaggerated further. Push hard and there is excessive understeer, followed by large amounts of, unsatisfying, oversteer.

When trying to extract a lap time, the engine and gearbox, that are reasonable on the road, become frustrating. Shifts feel sluggish, and the poor throttle response doesn’t allow for the fine adjustment needed on track."
Source: http://www.evo.co.uk/alfa-romeo/4c/page/0/3

Now plenty of cars in AC you can't get away with that, but at no point was the throttle snapped off on the 4C, nor is it a car known for heavy lift off oversteer.

Sorry, but the car action at 1'18" seems too unreal for me. That's the kind of things it doesn't happen in real life.

Please explain why it breaks the laws of physics.

5'45" : Breaking without abs 79mph ... That's not the way tyres blocks without abs in a good car with good tarmac in real life. Even if you brake hard (not at 100%) you don't get that reaction, tyres blocks after a little time when you exceed the grip, not in that instantly way.

The tyres are not locking instantly, as can be clearly seen on the replays at 19:24, 19:35 and 22:57.

And speaking from the point of view of physics, yes the tyres will lock as soon as you exceed the grip of the tyres (in terms of slip percentage in this case), the reason why they don't lock instantly is that it takes time (but we are talking fractions of a second) to reach that limit.

In all three of the cases above the forward weight transfer can be clearly seen to happen (which in itself happens a fraction of a second after deceleration begins - how quickly will depend on the damper settings) before the front tyres lock.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

@oneloops What do you think to video below?

 

[Whitestar]

But ok, here the AC defaults one picture : http://hpics.li/7b4f182

And here the all at half of strength+"understeer effect ON", that's i'm using now and i'm very happy with it :

http://hpics.li/48d4442

No wonder you had an inferior experience with strength at 100%. I have a T500 as well, and if I put everything to max then all FFB are totally clipped and all I feel are centering forces on the wheel. Though I'm not sure if console 100% = PC 100%. When set correctly (almost clipping but notclipping by only a small percentage) the T500 should provide a fantastic experience in AC. At least it does so for me.

 

[ALB123]

In my limited expertise of setting up FFB, you do want a little bit of clipping, no? I could have sworn we had a discussion about this on the official forums. Of course, you don't want the gauge bouncing into the red non-stop, but just a teeny amount. Anyone?

 

[fatkrakr]

In my limited expertise of setting up FFB, you do want a little bit of clipping, no? I could have sworn we had a discussion about this on the official forums. Of course, you don't want the gauge bouncing into the red non-stop, but just a teeny amount. Anyone?

That's how I set mine up.

 

[Whitestar]

In my limited expertise of setting up FFB, you do want a little bit of clipping, no? I could have sworn we had a discussion about this on the official forums. Of course, you don't want the gauge bouncing into the red non-stop, but just a teeny amount. Anyone?

Yeah that's true. A slight percentage of clipping seems to be the preferred. With my OCD that quickly becomes no clipping though. And given the T500's strength I often end up a bit lower.

 

[tka_tha]

I've posted my settings 3 yet, the AC defaults ones, and default for the wheel T500RS (i'm using PS4's AC).

But ok, here the AC defaults one picture : http://hpics.li/7b4f182

And here the all at half of strength+"understeer effect ON", that's i'm using now and i'm very happy with it :

http://hpics.li/48d4442

All aids off except factory abs.

Now i understand your explanation about 0% at FFB and work from that. Thank you, i will work with that base.

Thank you again !

You were using too much FFB, for me (T500 PS4) FFB 25 feels great.

 

[mister dog]

You see i knew it must have been wheel settings

 

[Johnnypenso]

You see i knew it must have been wheel settings

That's why I kept asking. Not hard to screw any game with a combination of wheel software settings + main menu FFB settings + individual car settings.

 

[ALB123]

I'll be the first person ready to talk about the multitude of issues Assetto Corsa has (PC and Console versions)...but, I'll never understand how some people can love the FFB of Assetto Corsa and some people find it to be horrible. Even if they're using the same settings that you are, on the same equipment, of course. What goes on in my brain than doesn't go on in the other person's brain to make us both agree on the feel of something like FFB?

There certainly are times when subjectivity totally makes sense to me. However, when judging the quality of something. Which TV has better/more light output? Well, that can be measured in Lumens. So, that's a fact. Which TV has better picture quality? I think we would all agree that the top of the line Panasonic Plasma TV has a much better picture than the 25" console TV use older folk grew up with. That's still subjective (unless we clearly define what constitutes better picture. I'm talking about just asking people to look at the TVs and make a decision on the spot).

In my opinion...Force Feedback is like one of the top qualities about Assetto Corsa. Stefano didn't code any tricks into the base FFB to make it "feel better". It's just data that comes from the car, untouched...that is, unless you enable certain stupid options. I know so many people who do like AC, but are pretty unhappy with some important missing features. Yet, they'll all say that AC has sick Force Feedback (within the limits of consumer wheels, of course). I know quite a few people who hate Assetto Corsa for one reason or another, but they'll say "It's too bad...I really loved the feel of driving in AC. You really feel connected to the car and feel bumps and weight transfer so well..."

But then there exists a group of people who prefer any other sim over AC when it comes to FFB. It really baffles me on a philosophical level. If we all agreed just to let me be the decider of what's right and what's wrong...this world would be a much better place.

 

[oneloops]

I'll be the first person ready to talk about the multitude of issues Assetto Corsa has (PC and Console versions)...but, I'll never understand how some people can love the FFB of Assetto Corsa and some people find it to be horrible. Even if they're using the same settings that you are, on the same equipment, of course. What goes on in my brain than doesn't go on in the other person's brain to make us both agree on the feel of something like FFB?

There certainly are times when subjectivity totally makes sense to me. However, when judging the quality of something. Which TV has better/more light output? Well, that can be measured in Lumens. So, that's a fact. Which TV has better picture quality? I think we would all agree that the top of the line Panasonic Plasma TV has a much better picture than the 25" console TV use older folk grew up with. That's still subjective (unless we clearly define what constitutes better picture. I'm talking about just asking people to look at the TVs and make a decision on the spot).

In my opinion...Force Feedback is like one of the top qualities about Assetto Corsa. Stefano didn't code any tricks into the base FFB to make it "feel better". It's just data that comes from the car, untouched...that is, unless you enable certain stupid options. I know so many people who do like AC, but are pretty unhappy with some important missing features. Yet, they'll all say that AC has sick Force Feedback (within the limits of consumer wheels, of course). I know quite a few people who hate Assetto Corsa for one reason or another, but they'll say "It's too bad...I really loved the feel of driving in AC. You really feel connected to the car and feel bumps and weight transfer so well..."

But then there exists a group of people who prefer any other sim over AC when it comes to FFB. It really baffles me on a philosophical level. If we all agreed just to let me be the decider of what's right and what's wrong...this world would be a much better place.

I agree with you, FFB in Assetto Corsa is the best, for me is awesome and big step up in comparison with GT6.

My critics were not about the FFB, but about car reactions and feel of physics of the car and grip, it's not the same thing than FFB !

After many hours riding with my new PS4 version (i had the pc version since 2 years) I can correct myself in some points but not in others.

The braking feel is gorgeus, from the begining to the end of the braking zone. (except without abs in stock cars that i think tyres blocking is overdone like i said about the 4C video yesterday )

The feel of the cars in the middle of corners is not ok IMO, they feel disconected to the ground, you have to cross your fingers and wish it will pass the corner (or after 10 laps you know the correct speed for that kind of corner) In modern cars and modern sport cars you feel a solid stabilty, but in AC even at low speed not pushing, you feel that there is an
unstable equilibrium... after some days playing AC you get in the habit of that response and you accept it because the game is like that and your brain finishes to adapt.

GT6 seems to me more stable like in real life, i feel more the exterior tyres supporting the weight and inertia (at high speed or pushing) and a stable perception at low speed (not pushing).

I repeat FFB is ok and gorgeous, i'm only talking about the physics and the reactions of the cars in AC.

You see i knew it must have been wheel settings

Thanks! By the way what are your FFB settings (if you play AC in PS4) ? I have to try some more.

@oneloops What do you think to video below?

You can find lots of videos with GT5, GT6, PCARS, etc that match reality as well as that video.

The feel of reality (without G force in a simulation game) is a hard issue, i know. From the start is false because we don't feel that G forces. It's a subjective matter, even if AC does ok the output of physicals reactions on FFB the feel is another different thing.

Now aside from you moving the goal posts in regard to this (you simply said it was not possible to put in two clean laps, so I'm not sure why you are now adding in further conditions to that) you are saying that you are able to take a car to a track on cold street tyres and hit almost every apex perfectly? Quite a bold claim indeed.


The 4C isn't a predictable car in reality.



Nor is it one known for being adjustable on the throttle.

"On a smooth track, the steering no longer tries to divert you off your chosen path, however it still feels numb. The rest of the experience is much the same as on the road, but exaggerated further. Push hard and there is excessive understeer, followed by large amounts of, unsatisfying, oversteer.

When trying to extract a lap time, the engine and gearbox, that are reasonable on the road, become frustrating. Shifts feel sluggish, and the poor throttle response doesn’t allow for the fine adjustment needed on track."
Source: http://www.evo.co.uk/alfa-romeo/4c/page/0/3

Now plenty of cars in AC you can't get away with that, but at no point was the throttle snapped off on the 4C, nor is it a car known for heavy lift off oversteer.


Please explain why it breaks the laws of physics.


The tyres are not locking instantly, as can be clearly seen on the replays at 19:24, 19:35 and 22:57.

And speaking from the point of view of physics, yes the tyres will lock as soon as you exceed the grip of the tyres (in terms of slip percentage in this case), the reason why they don't lock instantly is that it takes time (but we are talking fractions of a second) to reach that limit.

In all three of the cases above the forward weight transfer can be clearly seen to happen (which in itself happens a fraction of a second after deceleration begins - how quickly will depend on the damper settings) before the front tyres lock.

Hit the apex and drive with a exterior line at the start and at the exit of corners is not so hard with a minimum of driving level in real life at track with a 240hp modern sport car.

Even if you are pushing you don't attack corners in the middle of the track, lose the apex in the middle of the track with steering corrections and don't exit the corners with steering corrections at the end of the corner without skids like many times in your video. It's lot more smoother and progressive and clean in real life, for you and for me.

The 4C is a predictable car in real life, come on ! it's a modern and effective car, not a sauvage beast with turbo lag like in 80's or like the Ruf CTR (that's a kind of impredictable car, not the 4C)

I don't say it breaks the laws of physics, I say that anyone with a minimum of car driving skills doesn't make that kind of movements in real life.

More you have the habit of playing AC better you take control of the good racing line, I know. But it shouldn't be so extrange for a begginer player to take control of a stock middle car in a simulator.

 

[Scaff]

Hit the apex and drive with a exterior line at the start and at the exit of corners is not so hard with a minimum of driving level in real life at track with a 240hp modern sport car.

So when can we expect your video then?

Even if you are pushing you don't attack corners in the middle of the track, lose the apex in the middle of the track with steering corrections and don't exit the corners with steering corrections at the end of the corner without skids like many times in your video. It's lot more smoother and progressive and clean in real life, for you and for me.

Exactly how much experience of driving road cars on cold tyres on the track do you have?

The 4C is a predictable car in real life, come on ! it's a modern and effective car, not a sauvage beast with turbo lag like in 80's or like the Ruf CTR (that's a kind of impredictable car, not the 4C)

So the Evo reviewer was lying then?

Or for that matter the many reviewers who have said that its not predictable, has slugish gear changes and doesn't react well to throttle input, has oversensitive steering and has a desire to follow track imperfections too readily?

I don't say it breaks the laws of physics, I say that anyone with a minimum of car driving skills doesn't make that kind of movements in real life.

Yes you did. You said it was unreal and doesn't happen in reality.

As far as not happening in reality? Are you serious that you think no one has ever had to correct mid-corner in reality on a track?

I've taught on track for manufacturers and I can assure you it most certainly can and does happen.

More you have the habit of playing AC better you take control of the good racing line, I know. But it shouldn't be so extrange for a begginer player to take control of a stock middle car in a simulator.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

However what I can say is that you have moved the goalposts in regard to you original rather wild claims quite a bit, its perfectly possible to complete two clean laps in AC. I've shown it, as have many others. All your doing now is attempting to support your claim with additional criteria and distractions.

Finally can you please stop multiple posting, we have a multi-quote system that allows you to easily quote many posts aty once, please use it.

 

[mister dog]

Thanks! By the way what are your FFB settings (if you play AC in PS4) ? I have to try some more.

Different wheel and i'm on PC. I bet wrong wheel settings are responsible for the majority of complaints about the handling or physics in AC, as they are pretty top notch overall.

It's always essential to do a bit of research and see what works best for any racing game. Basically you have 3 variables that can make a big influence, driver settings, on wheel settings, and in game settings. Any of those skewed and its a game changer.

 

[oneloops]

Finally can you please stop multiple posting, we have a multi-quote system that allows you to easily quote many posts aty once, please use it.

I'm sorry.

So when can we expect your video then?
Exactly how much experience of driving road cars on cold tyres on the track do you have?

I haven't any video, I drove 7 years ago in Catalunya circuit with a '07 Civic Type R and with a BMW 130i + Alfa 147 ti at Jerez Circuit (Spain). I'm not an expert driver I know it, but I could take the good lines easily and constantly except some mistakes. I'm a motorbike rider with a R1 2004 and a Kawasaki ZX6R and I've ridden +100 times on several tracks in Spain and France. I know "something" about driving lines and apex

At your video, you're often driving in the middle of the track, taking the exit of the corners in the middle too, not at the exterior side, that's because a lack of natural feel and the lack of control of the car physics... when you drive more in AC you take better control of the good racing line, but it should be natural from the begining, that what i'm saying since my first post.

Yes you did. You said it was unreal and doesn't happen in reality.

As far as not happening in reality? Are you serious that you think no one has ever had to correct mid-corner in reality on a track?

I've taught on track for manufacturers and I can assure you it most certainly can and does happen.

As I said, with those cars, I could take the good lines easily and constantly except some mistakes.

So the Evo reviewer was lying then?

In this video there's nothing about "unpredictable" I didn't found your Evo's review.

However what I can say is that you have moved the goalposts in regard to you original rather wild claims quite a bit, its perfectly possible to complete two clean laps in AC. I've shown it, as have many others. All your doing now is attempting to support your claim with additional criteria and distractions.

I admit (and i've already said) that I've changed a little my opinion since I tested yesterday night and today the PS4 version of AC. Tyre model simulation is more natural than in my PC version and now, with less FFB, I feel a better control (thanks to gtplanet users).

I'm not distracting, I had an opinion, it has changed since yesterday and AC becomes to be less frustating to me.
But I'm still thinking that the physics reactions and the feel of the cars aren't reals for me and they are more natural in GT6 ( I know almost nobody agree with me )

 

[Scaff]

I'm sorry.

Thank you.

I haven't any video, I drove 7 years ago in Catalunya circuit with a '07 Civic Type R and with a BMW 130i + Alfa 147 ti at Jerez Circuit (Spain). I'm not an expert driver I know it, but I could take the good lines easily and constantly except some mistakes. I'm a motorbike rider with a R1 2004 and a Kawasaki ZX6R and I've ridden +100 times on several tracks in Spain and France. I know "something" about driving lines and apex

So limited then, yet your sure you would have no problem with the 4C.

At your video, you're often driving in the middle of the track, taking the exit of the corners in the middle too, not at the exterior side, that's because a lack of natural feel and the lack of control of the car physics... when you drive more in AC you take better control of the good racing line, but it should be natural from the begining, that what i'm saying since my first post.

You were talking about clean laps, not laps with perfect apexes for every corner, as such that's what you got in the video.

It had nothing at all to do with the feel from AC or a claimed lack of control from the physics.

In this video there's nothing about "unpredictable" I didn't found your Evo's review.

I quoted directly from the Evo review and provided a link to it!

You might also want to re watch that video and drop Chris Harris an email about his driving, way to many apexes missed by your standards.

I admit (and i've already said) that I've changed a little my opinion since I tested yesterday night and today the PS4 version of AC. Tyre model simulation is more natural than in my PC version and now, with less FFB, I feel a better control (thanks to gtplanet users).

I'm not distracting, I had an opinion, it has changed since yesterday and AC becomes to be less frustating to me.
But I'm still thinking that the physics reactions and the feel of the cars aren't reals for me and they are more natural in GT6 ( I know almost nobody agree with me )

Almost no one agrees with you because you have provided nothing to back up your claim.

 

[oneloops]

So limited then, yet your sure you would have no problem with the 4C.

Yes, I'm sure that I could do good driving lines with it.

You were talking about clean laps, not laps with perfect apexes for every corner, as such that's what you got in the video.

For me a clean lap is one with good driving lines, hitting the apex and almost no lines corrections (steering corrections is admited for some logical skids, but a clean driving line). The opposite is a dirty lap with many lines corrections, not fixing the driving line to the good racing lines, not touching the apex, not using all the width of track, etc.

Almost no one agrees with you because you have provided nothing to back up your claim.

It's a subjective debate, it doesn't matter.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, I'm sure that I could do good driving lines with it.

Ok.

For me a clean lap is one with good driving lines, hitting the apex and almost no lines corrections (steering corrections is admited for some logical skids, but a clean driving line). The opposite is a dirty lap with many lines corrections, not fixing the driving line to the good racing lines, not touching the apex, not using all the width of track, etc.

Then you have a different definitions to the majority, and Chris Harris can't manage consistent clean laps.

It's a subjective debate, it doesn't matter.

Feel is to a degree subjective, however some elements are not (self aligning torque) and physics are not.

They are objective and GT gets a good number of them utterly wrong.

I have to be honest it sounds like you prefer GT because it flatters you, which is fine, but it doesn't make it a more accurate sim.

 

[oneloops]

Then you have a different definitions to the majority, and Chris Harris can't manage consistent clean laps.

Chris Harris wants to do a show with his videos and he achieves it. He wants to dift and to show it. He can drive as clean as he wants.

Feel is to a degree subjective, however some elements are not (self aligning torque) and physics are not.

AC have changed his physics since the first version, and they will improve/change them. So they weren't objetive real physics simulations and neither they are. All is simulation even if they are based in physics. They are probably true but the simulation is a simulation. The simulation is a feel of realism, so that feel is always subjective (simulation : similar, never real).

I have to be honest it sounds like you prefer GT because it flatters you, which is fine, but it doesn't make it a more accurate sim.

Yes, I'm flattered with GT. I loved and hated AC because of my PC version and because I used default AC FFB settings (which is too much and frustates a cleaning driving).

Now, after these conversations and the new PS4 version and lower FFB settings I begin to fall in love again with AC, even if I critic some simulations items, like I criticked some for GT6 too.

 

[Drausio]

Clean driving, or as clean as it gets, with a Ruff Yellow Bird.

 

[Scaff]

Chris Harris wants to do a show with his videos and he achieves it. He wants to dift and to show it. He can drive as clean as he wants.

Which doesn't change the fact that by your definition he's not doing clean laps.

AC have changed his physics since the first version, and they will improve/change them. So they weren't objetive real physics simulations and neither they are. All is simulation even if they are based in physics. They are probably true but the simulation is a simulation. The simulation is a feel of realism, so that feel is always subjective (simulation : similar, never real).

No it's not.

For example it's not subjective that weight transfer in GT us wrong, you can see it in the way rear engined cars do not respond to weight transfer as they should.

It's not subjective that torque steer from a standing start us wrong in GT.

It's not subjective that tuning doesn't respond as it should in some areas in GT.

It's not subjective that GT doesn't model the reduction in self aligning torque during understeer.

All of these can and have been tested.

Now GT is not alone in having physics issues (and some of these have improved on the build of GT:S I played), but they are most certainly present and objectively testable.

Yes, I'm flattered with GT. I loved and hated AC because of my PC version and because I used default AC FFB settings (which is too much and frustates a cleaning driving).

Now, after these conversations and the new PS4 version and lower FFB settings I begin to fall in love again with AC, even if I critic some simulations items, like I criticked some for GT6 too.

The PC and PS4 versions are the same, that was the point of the last PS4 update.