Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

[McClarenDesign]

So COTW has been around for four years?

Ah, young Grasshopper...

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Ah, young Grasshopper...

To be fair, I am a part of the same train/boat/conga line as Obelisk is. After all, I have lived roughly half of COTW's life, so I'm not quite a veteran just yet...

Still, it's amazing that despite the general pessimistic cloud over Gran Turismo's future, the constant arguing over one's words on the matter and competition from other franchises, this thread still lives happily after four long years and two gaming generations. Since I don't drink alcohol (nor I do drugs, because Rex Power Colt taught me so), I'll just raise a bottle of Sunny Delight to COTW's soon-to-be birthday. Keep on drivin', girl, because this journey deserves to continue. 👍

 

[Obelisk]

conga line

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Since I don't drink alcohol (nor I do drugs, because Rex Power Colt taught me so), I'll just raise a bottle of Sunny Delight

That's fine, I'll make up for it and consume your portions too, wouldn't want to see any of it to go to waste.


Congrats Mc! Must be one of the very few game related threads on GTP that are still active after so much time.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

That's fine, I'll make up for it and consume your portions too, wouldn't want to see any of it to go to waste.

Please do sir Lewis, after all you are pretty experienced in the alcohol consuming business with several bottles of champagne consumed over the past years. And I do believe that Brits are always quite good at holding the side effects of a good pint, after all...

 

[McClarenDesign]

Looks like I may need to re-up my Rx as well. The people demand a return.

There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?

 

[Obelisk]

Looks like I may need to re-up my Rx as well. The people demand a return.

There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?

I've got a purple haze in my brain. Lately things just don't see the same.

So no.

 

[Vic Reign93]

I've been around for just over 2 years of COTW's lifespan with me arriving with an action shot photo of the Buick GNX at the Ring.

My first official introduction to the madhouse that is COTW was with the Alpine A110 1600S and the race where I made my name known was the Bonus race with the AMG VGT Racing version, taking on Lewis in a fight to the end.

A lots changed in those 2 years, but we're still the same madhouse we once were, only faster. 👍

Here's to 4 more years of COTW.

 

[RobboGTAddict]

Bravo! Four years of good clean friendly competition. Proud to be a (little) part of it.

I'll drink to that.

 

[McClarenDesign]

With the recent completion of crash testing for Sauber, the C35's unveiling and the upcoming Formula 1 testing, we will not be partaking in cake to celebrate our birthday. Instead, members are encouraged to enjoy another desert decorated to commemorate our achievement:

The birthday donut. (#CakeConspiracy)

Happy birthday to our group, and to many, many more in the future.​

 

[McClarenDesign]

Tonight was a complete waste, so I'll try again tomorrow night.

If you have your horn configured to your equipment, please do not bother. You will be kicked immediately. This will be your only warning and it is not open to discussion.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Tonight was a complete waste, so I'll try again tomorrow night.

If you have your horn configured to your equipment, please do not bother. You will be kicked immediately. This will be your only warning and it is not open to discussion.

I'm not gonna lie, but when you all capped "HORNS ARE FOR PEOPLE WHO LICK BALLS" right at the moment someone tooted their horn, I went into hysterics and slammed the wall a few times.

The Prelude was almost as much of a disappointment as tonight's connections. I was expecting it to be up there with its Civic and Integra cousins, instead it ends up getting dropped into a [slight] beater status.

 

[Vic Reign93]

I'm not gonna lie, but when you all capped "HORNS ARE FOR PEOPLE WHO LICK BALLS" right at the moment someone tooted their horn, I went into hysterics and slammed the wall a few times.

The Prelude was almost as much of a disappointment as tonight's connections. I was expecting it to be up there with its Civic and Integra cousins, instead it ends up getting dropped into a [slight] beater status.

I noticed that too and I thought to myself, 'Someone's tempting fate'

It did give me a few laughs as well.

As for the Prelude, in the Description it says the ATTS sends torque to the outside wheel in cornering which could partly explain the one tyre fires coming out of turns.

I might test the Non ATTS version to see if that's the case, it will be lighter as well which may make a difference.

 

[McClarenDesign]

All I want is a fair race.

 

[Draggon]

All I want is a fair race.

Ted can make that difficult

 

[Vic Reign93]

As I said last night, Joyless wins aren't satisfying.

I don't know what's happening with the servers, but as of late even my connection is getting severed and short of mass exoduses that rarely happens.

Not even Lewis's recent connection upgrade helped him avoid it.

All I want is for us to have some stable servers to race on.

 

[Obelisk]

As I said last night, Joyless wins aren't satisfying.

I don't know what's happening with the servers, but as of late even my connection is getting severed and short of mass exoduses that rarely happens.

Not even Lewis's recent connection upgrade helped him avoid it.

All I want is for us to have some stable servers to race on.

I've been playing GT4 for that reason.

 

[McClarenDesign]

​

 

[CaddyKOP]

Prelude of my own Accord

Not long ago, we reviewed the dismal 2000 Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus. While it was nothing to write home about, the one thing that did stand out about it was the fact that it was one of the last of a breed that's all but extinct. The front-engined, front-wheel drive sports coupe is nearly dead. During the 90s, we had a fantastic range of FF coupes from all automotive countries (except for England, maybe). However, Japan is largely the last manufacturer of such cars, and even then, there's like only three on sale (actually, two, now that Scion has been killed). The final examples are made by the one company that probably did the idea best: Honda. Sadly, these examples are merely shadows of their predecessors...

​

-shudders-

But, let's not look at the beige-mobiles of today, let's instead gawk at the fantastic and charismatic machines from 20 years ago...focusing on the best one of them all (in my opinion): the Honda Prelude.

​

The Prelude was the ideal car of the 1990s. It was one of those cars that was perfect for a certain type of person...a niche market, perhaps. Those who wanted a sporty car for as cheap as possible. One that offered good looks and a potent powerplant, all while staying under 30 grand and offering premium reliability. The Prelude ticked all those boxes in such a perfect way. Honestly, I think that the car peaked with the gorgeous fourth generation model, but this 1996 example is also quite the looker. I've always wanted to drive one of these, as I climbed out of the S2000, my tongue was lapping all over the bodywork. Oh, Honda...look what you used to be...

​

Of course, these days, I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't take a second look at a Prelude beyond it being another 20 year old Honda. But the proportions of the Prelude were just so perfect for it. It was somewhat classy, yet restrained. Like a cut price Acura. Well done, Honda.

​

But, I could sit here and drool over the Prelude's looks all day...what you really wanna know is whether this thing is fun to drive. So, as usual, it's time to take this pocket rocket down to the track and see if it's any better than that Fiat.

​

Now this is probably the most ideal front-wheel drive sports car of the 1990s, being that somehow, this car feels as close to a proper RWD machine as sinking your life savings and beginning a life of prostitution to buy a Mazda RX-7. Under the hood is a trustworthy Honda inline 4, boasting their famous VTEC system. On paper, it doesn't sound very robust, pumping out a modest 216 horsepower. But, paired with this fantastic 5 speed manual, it feels actually rather fast for what it is. It might also have to do with the weight of the car. It gave you a sense of confidence that you would probably win every race you entered...maybe that's what's wrong with the usual Honda owners.

​

On the handling side of things, the praise doesn't stop. For an FF, the car feels rather properly balanced. Corners go by with much ease, with little to no understeer present. Where the Fiat felt like it was destined to kill you in some way, shape, or form, this felt much more refined, assuring that Honda truly is the master of the FWD coupe, this is probably their flagship of the segment.

​

It really goes without saying that this is a shining example of what Honda used to be, and why they were so beloved in the 1990s. Cars like this, the Civic Type R, Integra, and the NSX, were cheap and fun machines. A way to bring a smile to your face to the lengths of a BMW or Ferrari, but for the price of a Honda. You just don't get that kind of dedication today. The Prelude eventually put down a fun-filled lap of 3:33.260, faster than the Fiat and the Integra by a few decent seconds.

​

The Verdict

This one should be easy to guess. This car opened me up to the wonders of FWD, and just how good it can be when done well. I may have cursed at that Fiat, but it's nothing but praise for this sleeper of a Honda. I'm sure I can find use for this in the FF races of the future.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I may have cursed at that Fiat, but it's nothing but praise for this sleeper of a Honda. I'm sure I can find use for this in the FF races of the future.

You'd be cursing that Fiat even more if you were racing your Prelude against it in these FF races, surprisingly the Fiat is actually faster.

 

[Vic Reign93]

You'd be cursing that Fiat even more if you were racing your Prelude against it in these FF races, surprisingly the Fiat is actually faster.

And he'll be cursing it even more when he finds that the 96' Prelude Type S with its ATTS system causes excess wheel spin coming out of turns in 2nd and even 3rd gear.

I gave the Fiat grief for being nose heavy, but if it kept the tyres planted on the road then I would happily take that compromise over a system which causes the tyres to be worn out faster.

I stand by my verdict of the Fiat being a Beater, but worst beater of the year? That might be about to change.

 

[CaddyKOP]

Maybe I just had a better day with the Prelude than I did with the Fiat.

Maybe I'm biased because I've always had a thing for Preludes.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Well that is personal bias for you, @CaddyKOP. I also have my own bias for JDM cars, but that is normally reserved for Nissans (no, not just GT-Rs, I have yet to change my first name to Kazunori). Even then, I feel that there is another Honda which works better than the Type-S. Which one? Well;

Previewing an oncoming failure: ‘96 Honda Prelude Type-S​

Hello one and all, welcome to a “long hiatus-ending” edition of Niku’s COTW Reviews; where cars get abused, jokes get overused, and where hopefully this review can be enjoyed and commented upon, despite my rusty reviewing skills.​

In the wide and varied Japanese automotive world, brands have chosen one single personality trait and exploited said trait to oblivion and back. Nowadays, it is easy to discover these traits, as car ranges get increasingly specialized; Toyota creates the beige family cars to cater to John Doe and wife Jane, Daihatsu comes up with the wackiest ideas they can but limit them all to kei-car size in order to avoid issues with mother Toyota, while Nissan attempts to one-up everyone else in their bid to overwhelm the SUV market created by their own darling Qashqai. And so, we arrive at our Japanese brand for today, Honda. For many years, gearheads gushed over the brilliant front-wheel-drive sports cars which the brand manufactured with delight and honor. Needless to say, that is their own personality trait; FF cars which you can throw at any given track, mountain road or parking lot, and the car answers back with a steering response that is both sharp and lightning-quick without most of the issues that plague their rival counterparts. People are quick to point out the names of these cars when the topic of legendary FF Hondas, with most mentions ending with that infamous combined word:

Type-R.

But for this week, the R had taken a vacation… We were not going to be Civic about this change, nor would we Integrate some light-minded fun in our daily lives. Of course, we were not touching anything that Mr. Senna had helped developing either, because all those bases were locked by Mr. Mcclaren. Our car is a Type Honda, yes, but with a rather curious change;

'96 Honda Prelude Type-S. Codename: "Red-headed VTEC red head"​

The Honda Prelude Type-S. A car released one year after the legendary Integra Type-R and one year after the equally famous Civic Type-R, yet it is a car that sits in a chair above the two speedy wonders. For all its worth, this model is a distant brother of the big Accord, who acts as a dad of sorts for both the city boy (Civic) and the city slicker (Integra). More powerful, more elegant, better equipped; the Prelude is a car that aimed at a richer crowd than the usual Type-R owners, and it reflects that in its specs. A child of the late ‘70s, the Prelude was ironically a namesake which was not Honda’s; Toyota had intentions of using the name for their own model range, but eventually allowed Honda to use it for what they say fit, in an unusually friendly move by the biggest of all Japanese automotive giants. Throughout the 1980s, the Prelude grew in size and technological prowess, becoming one of the very first cars to offer four wheel steering. Making the best out of such an innovation, the Prelude showed how quicker it could travel in a slalom test by beating Porsches and Corvettes with an overall speed of over 65 mph in Road & Track’s 1981 test of the Prelude. However, neither of these old Preludes is available in Gran Turismo, as the game chose to travel to the time when the Prelude grew past its compact origins. Beginning with the fourth generation Prelude, a car which had its length enlarged and its engines changed, Honda aimed the Prelude at a richer market, hoping for bigger (pun not intended) success.

And so, we finally arrive at our car for today; the Prelude’s fifth and final generation, as represented by this red Type-S. You may ask at this point “Final generation? But you did say that Honda was pursuing a richer crowd by making the Prelude bigger, didn’t you? Than what happened to those plans?” The answer is two-fold, but for now I will say that the fourth generation’s design had failed to convince buyers to spend their hard-earned cash on a Prelude. People were not impressed with the rounder lines and their front nose lump, and Honda’s daring plan was quickly going down the drain. Killing off the pop-up headlamps did not help any matters either… So, in November 1996, Honda brought forth the fifth generation Prelude, and the design was completely changed. Yes, the shape is still that of a 2-door coupe with a long front and short rear, but the details within that shape are a far cry better than those found in the fourth generation Prelude. The nose is more elegant, featuring trapezoidal headlights which follow the hood’s lines and a somewhat thin but clean-looking front grille. The taillights also took a trip to the surgeon, changing from their upwards units to rectangular-shaped ones. It may not be a gorgeous design, but the Type-S does look clean and elegant, two of the things a luxury coupe owner is looking for when searching for a suitable choice. The rims could definitely stand out a bit more, as they are not much more than a five-spoke design where each spoke is rather thin in width. Still, it is not a tasteless choice of rims, so the design is not entirely ruined by it.

But then we arrive at the third thing that a luxury coupe owner is looking for; performance. And this dreaded point is the one that creates the biggest stain in the Prelude’s Persian rug…

The issue does not lie with the engine; Honda’s trusty H22 block, which ironically first began its life as a 1993 Prelude engine, looks the part with its red valve cover (while you cannot see it in the game, you can see photos of it, therefore it counts) and comes with specs to match. Per usual standards, the Type-S was a JDM-only affair, proving that most Japanese brands keep the cool sweets to themselves and only offer the lesser variations to those pesky Europeans and Americans. As such, the Type-S is not limited in any way, offering 217 horsepower and 221 Nm of torque to haul the rev counter all the way to that golden VTEC zone. A 100 hp/engine liter ratio is nothing to scoff at either, especially when you can squeeze so much without resorting to forced induction. From what I could gather, the H22A engine found in the Type-S’s engine bay was given quite the treatment; raised compression ratio, a brand new funnel-shaped intake and even a full factory port-and-polish job. While it is not an R, the Type-S does feel like it was treated as such. With a cheap oil change, the Prelude can offer over 220 hp on tap, which sounds mouthwatering enough…

…until you arrive at a corner in full racing pace, that is. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Prelude Type-S’s biggest enemy; cornering ability. It is not an issue with stability or ancient suspensions; the Prelude displays an exemplar sense of stability in any given corner, and never loses composure even if you hammer the right pedal. In addition, the suspension settings are far from being ancient. However, it seems that it is there where the Prelude’s cornering woes flourish in the first place. Why do I say this? Time for another quick automotive history lesson…

One of the Prelude’s models was known as the SH. No, that name does not imply that it came with Sports Hard tires as standard, this is real automotive history we are talking about here. What distinguished the SH from other mundane Preludes was the existence of a little special differential system. Again, something that many brands possess; Nissan and its ATTESA system, Mitsubishi and its AYC system, so on and so forth. Honda equipped the SH with their own idea of a differential system; the Active Torque Transfer System, or ATTS for short. Getting some proper info on this system took its time, but I eventually came across a very interesting article on the Prelude UK forum. Long story short, the ATTS was a new type of differential which distributes torque to the outside wheel during cornering, the creation of one Yasugi Shibahata in his bid to create a system where torque could be split between the left and right wheels of a car as opposed to the more traditional front/rear split found in 4WD cars. Shibahata eventually found the Prelude as the right canvas for a new concept involving front-wheel-drive driving feel. And since he had already designed the Prelude’s front suspension, why not marry that to its older creation?

The problem here is that the ATTS system is not something you can tune, or even exists within the car’s settings. In general terms, the ATTS replaces the normal LSD found in most normal sports cars, but in GT6, this is not the case. You still have a stock LSD installed, and you cannot set anything up with such a part. It also brings up a rather strange fact; while the Type-S’s LSD does have an initial LSD rating of 35, it has no acceleration or braking rating. However, whatever those ratings may be, I did get the impression that they are not enough to contain the S’s problematic behavior. Coming into a corner, it all seems fine, but once power and steering are applied at the same time during the cornering process, the Prelude’s wheel rotation goes to hell and wastes most of its power in needless wheel spinning. It does not help that the Prelude’s weight distribution ratio of 63/37 prevents any type of aggressive braking which is required to keep up with non-FF cars from occurring, as doing so will send the Type-S’s nose straight ahead into the track’s flora (or walls, if you prefer). Therefore, driving the Prelude becomes a teeth-grinding process of braking early, and hope to god that the accelerator inputs do not set the front tires on fire with poor rotation. This is far from being the elegant, slalom-destroying abilities that old Preludes prided themselves for in automotive media, and it is definitely not what one would expect from the same Honda that had created two racing-esque front-wheel-drive Type-Rs. The suspension settings also play a part in the Prelude’s corner woes, but I will get to that later as well.

Actually, never mind, I cannot hold this comparison back for much longer. During our Saturday, February 13th session, British driver and speed extraordinaire Vic Reigns93 spoke of a comparison which he was planning to do after the session was over. And ironically enough, that very same idea had gone through my mind, and was done prior to these races. The Type-S is far from being the Prelude’s best exponent in GT6. You know what that mysterious landmark is? Well, it is this;

'98 Honda Prelude SiR S Spec. Codename: "Elegant White Spec"​

It is the (breath in) Honda Prelude SiR S Spec (exhales). Well, that is a bit of a mouthful, is it not? However, while it is not a menacing name, it is the best possible sleeper Prelude your credits can buy. The Type-S fanciness is its biggest enemy, while the SiR has no such thing. Firstly, it is 40 kg lighter than the S. Secondly, it still has the same mighty H22A engine as the S. Thirdly, it is 3600 credits cheaper. And finally, it feels much easier to drive than the Type-S. What is the reason for most of these things? The fact that it does not come with the ATTS system. Yes, not having one of the most advanced technological marvels in differential history is a plus for the S Spec. For starters, having less weight means that the weight distribution is a bit more bearable and braking becomes a tad bit better as a result. Then come the suspension and drivetrain ratings; I will share a few mediocre cellphone pictures with you on this matter, and I will apologize in advance for the fluctuating quality of said pictures:

In essence, not having the ATTS makes the SiR less stiff, lighter in feel and weight, and less prone to rotation issues than its big brother. So much for having an edge because you are the more expensive person in the family… Once I took the SiR to Tsukuba, after driving the Type-S, the results were evident; while the gap was not massive (only a few tenths of a second), the SiR was the quickest of the fifth generation Prelude duo. And it felt better to drive, thanks to all the previously mentioned drivetrain differences. While the Type-S spent half of its lap losing corner exit speed thanks to poor rotation, the SiR could exit corners without leaving a trail of front tire smoke behind itself. It is still not quite up to Integra levels of handling prowess, but it is far smoother than its heavier counterpart in the Type-S.

And so ends the Type-S story. It was a story of great hopes, which were sadly dashed by cumbersome handling, part inaccuracies and the existence of a far more competent brother in its ranks. And out of respect, I will not even mention other Tsukuba lap times that I set for comparison’s sake, set by rival cars in the form of Nissan’s S15 Silvia Spec-R Aero and Toyota’s Supra SZ-R. However, I will say that in terms of driving feel they both have the Type-S beat, and beat soundly. Against my own 2016 COTW choice, the Fiat Coupe Turbo, the Prelude lost due to the Coupe’s better engine (thanks to its turbo-fed induction) and more planted front end behavior (thanks to better rotation under power through corners). I had good expectations for the Type-S, but the final result was not quite up to them. The Prelude learned that changes can hurt the hard way, as its size change led to additional taxes within the Japanese car market, and sent it straight into the oncoming path of monsters such as the Lancer Evolution and the Subaru Impreza STI. In America, where the car had to compete against the more comfortable Accord coupe and the cheaper Civic Si, the sales figures were even worse. After 2001, the Prelude was no more, with its only saving grace being the ATTS system, which was fused with Honda’s VTM-4 system and led to the creation of the SH-AWD traction and handling system. Yes, that is the system that is now being employed in Honda’s mightiest sports car, the born-again NSX… In the end, what the SiR proves is that sometimes, you have to do with unconventional approaches to be successful. The Type-S paid a hefty price for its revolution, and in GT6 that price is just far too much…

Best:

• Smart and elegant non-chav design;
• One of the most powerful NA VTEC engines you will get this side of a S2000;
• Stable and easy-to-understand driving behavior.

Worst:

• Can you say "Lack of rotation in corners?";
• ATTS system not faithfully recreated in the game;
• It doesn't do anything that the SiR S Spec can't do better.

Final Veredict: Beater; the Prelude is no Integra, but it had the potential to surprise many on the track, with its polished engine and sharp gearbox. But alas, the weight of its innovations winds up destroying most of that potential, much like Mitsubishi's infamous 3000GT... Sometimes you don't need to go techno on us, Japan, we can handle a few analogic devices once in a while.

 

[Vic Reign93]

Well that is personal bias for you, @CaddyKOP. I also have my own bias for JDM cars, but that is normally reserved for Nissans (no, not just GT-Rs, I have yet to change my first name to Kazunori). Even then, I feel that there is another Honda which works better than the Type-S. Which one? Well;

Previewing an oncoming failure: ‘96 Honda Prelude Type-S​

Hello one and all, welcome to a “long hiatus-ending” edition of Niku’s COTW Reviews; where cars get abused, jokes get overused, and where hopefully this review can be enjoyed and commented upon, despite my rusty reviewing skills.​

In the wide and varied Japanese automotive world, brands have chosen one single personality trait and exploited said trait to oblivion and back. Nowadays, it is easy to discover these traits, as car ranges get increasingly specialized; Toyota creates the beige family cars to cater to John Doe and wife Jane, Daihatsu comes up with the wackiest ideas they can but limit them all to kei-car size in order to avoid issues with mother Toyota, while Nissan attempts to one-up everyone else in their bid to overwhelm the SUV market created by their own darling Qashqai. And so, we arrive at our Japanese brand for today, Honda. For many years, gearheads gushed over the brilliant front-wheel-drive sports cars which the brand manufactured with delight and honor. Needless to say, that is their own personality trait; FF cars which you can throw at any given track, mountain road or parking lot, and the car answers back with a steering response that is both sharp and lightning-quick without most of the issues that plague their rival counterparts. People are quick to point out the names of these cars when the topic of legendary FF Hondas, with most mentions ending with that infamous combined word:

Type-R.

But for this week, the R had taken a vacation… We were not going to be Civic about this change, nor would we Integrate some light-minded fun in our daily lives. Of course, we were not touching anything that Mr. Senna had helped developing either, because all those bases were locked by Mr. Mcclaren. Our car is a Type Honda, yes, but with a rather curious change;

View attachment 514647

'96 Honda Prelude Type-S. Codename: "Red-headed VTEC red head"​

The Honda Prelude Type-S. A car released one year after the legendary Integra Type-R and one year after the equally famous Civic Type-R, yet it is a car that sits in a chair above the two speedy wonders. For all its worth, this model is a distant brother of the big Accord, who acts as a dad of sorts for both the city boy (Civic) and the city slicker (Integra). More powerful, more elegant, better equipped; the Prelude is a car that aimed at a richer crowd than the usual Type-R owners, and it reflects that in its specs. A child of the late ‘70s, the Prelude was ironically a namesake which was not Honda’s; Toyota had intentions of using the name for their own model range, but eventually allowed Honda to use it for what they say fit, in an unusually friendly move by the biggest of all Japanese automotive giants. Throughout the 1980s, the Prelude grew in size and technological prowess, becoming one of the very first cars to offer four wheel steering. Making the best out of such an innovation, the Prelude showed how quicker it could travel in a slalom test by beating Porsches and Corvettes with an overall speed of over 65 mph in Road & Track’s 1981 test of the Prelude. However, neither of these old Preludes is available in Gran Turismo, as the game chose to travel to the time when the Prelude grew past its compact origins. Beginning with the fourth generation Prelude, a car which had its length enlarged and its engines changed, Honda aimed the Prelude at a richer market, hoping for bigger (pun not intended) success.

And so, we finally arrive at our car for today; the Prelude’s fifth and final generation, as represented by this red Type-S. You may ask at this point “Final generation? But you did say that Honda was pursuing a richer crowd by making the Prelude bigger, didn’t you? Than what happened to those plans?” The answer is two-fold, but for now I will say that the fourth generation’s design had failed to convince buyers to spend their hard-earned cash on a Prelude. People were not impressed with the rounder lines and their front nose lump, and Honda’s daring plan was quickly going down the drain. Killing off the pop-up headlamps did not help any matters either… So, in November 1996, Honda brought forth the fifth generation Prelude, and the design was completely changed. Yes, the shape is still that of a 2-door coupe with a long front and short rear, but the details within that shape are a far cry better than those found in the fourth generation Prelude. The nose is more elegant, featuring trapezoidal headlights which follow the hood’s lines and a somewhat thin but clean-looking front grille. The taillights also took a trip to the surgeon, changing from their upwards units to rectangular-shaped ones. It may not be a gorgeous design, but the Type-S does look clean and elegant, two of the things a luxury coupe owner is looking for when searching for a suitable choice. The rims could definitely stand out a bit more, as they are not much more than a five-spoke design where each spoke is rather thin in width. Still, it is not a tasteless choice of rims, so the design is not entirely ruined by it.

But then we arrive at the third thing that a luxury coupe owner is looking for; performance. And this dreaded point is the one that creates the biggest stain in the Prelude’s Persian rug…

View attachment 514649

The issue does not lie with the engine; Honda’s trusty H22 block, which ironically first began its life as a 1993 Prelude engine, looks the part with its red valve cover (while you cannot see it in the game, you can see photos of it, therefore it counts) and comes with specs to match. Per usual standards, the Type-S was a JDM-only affair, proving that most Japanese brands keep the cool sweets to themselves and only offer the lesser variations to those pesky Europeans and Americans. As such, the Type-S is not limited in any way, offering 217 horsepower and 221 Nm of torque to haul the rev counter all the way to that golden VTEC zone. A 100 hp/engine liter ratio is nothing to scoff at either, especially when you can squeeze so much without resorting to forced induction. From what I could gather, the H22A engine found in the Type-S’s engine bay was given quite the treatment; raised compression ratio, a brand new funnel-shaped intake and even a full factory port-and-polish job. While it is not an R, the Type-S does feel like it was treated as such. With a cheap oil change, the Prelude can offer over 220 hp on tap, which sounds mouthwatering enough…

View attachment 514648

…until you arrive at a corner in full racing pace, that is. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Prelude Type-S’s biggest enemy; cornering ability. It is not an issue with stability or ancient suspensions; the Prelude displays an exemplar sense of stability in any given corner, and never loses composure even if you hammer the right pedal. In addition, the suspension settings are far from being ancient. However, it seems that it is there where the Prelude’s cornering woes flourish in the first place. Why do I say this? Time for another quick automotive history lesson…

View attachment 514645

One of the Prelude’s models was known as the SH. No, that name does not imply that it came with Sports Hard tires as standard, this is real automotive history we are talking about here. What distinguished the SH from other mundane Preludes was the existence of a little special differential system. Again, something that many brands possess; Nissan and its ATTESA system, Mitsubishi and its AYC system, so on and so forth. Honda equipped the SH with their own idea of a differential system; the Active Torque Transfer System, or ATTS for short. Getting some proper info on this system took its time, but I eventually came across a very interesting article on the Prelude UK forum. Long story short, the ATTS was a new type of differential which distributes torque to the outside wheel during cornering, the creation of one Yasugi Shibahata in his bid to create a system where torque could be split between the left and right wheels of a car as opposed to the more traditional front/rear split found in 4WD cars. Shibahata eventually found the Prelude as the right canvas for a new concept involving front-wheel-drive driving feel. And since he had already designed the Prelude’s front suspension, why not marry that to its older creation?

The problem here is that the ATTS system is not something you can tune, or even exists within the car’s settings. In general terms, the ATTS replaces the normal LSD found in most normal sports cars, but in GT6, this is not the case. You still have a stock LSD installed, and you cannot set anything up with such a part. It also brings up a rather strange fact; while the Type-S’s LSD does have an initial LSD rating of 35, it has no acceleration or braking rating. However, whatever those ratings may be, I did get the impression that they are not enough to contain the S’s problematic behavior. Coming into a corner, it all seems fine, but once power and steering are applied at the same time during the cornering process, the Prelude’s wheel rotation goes to hell and wastes most of its power in needless wheel spinning. It does not help that the Prelude’s weight distribution ratio of 63/37 prevents any type of aggressive braking which is required to keep up with non-FF cars from occurring, as doing so will send the Type-S’s nose straight ahead into the track’s flora (or walls, if you prefer). Therefore, driving the Prelude becomes a teeth-grinding process of braking early, and hope to god that the accelerator inputs do not set the front tires on fire with poor rotation. This is far from being the elegant, slalom-destroying abilities that old Preludes prided themselves for in automotive media, and it is definitely not what one would expect from the same Honda that had created two racing-esque front-wheel-drive Type-Rs. The suspension settings also play a part in the Prelude’s corner woes, but I will get to that later as well.

Actually, never mind, I cannot hold this comparison back for much longer. During our Saturday, February 13th session, British driver and speed extraordinaire Vic Reigns93 spoke of a comparison which he was planning to do after the session was over. And ironically enough, that very same idea had gone through my mind, and was done prior to these races. The Type-S is far from being the Prelude’s best exponent in GT6. You know what that mysterious landmark is? Well, it is this;

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'98 Honda Prelude SiR S Spec. Codename: "Elegant White Spec"​

It is the (breath in) Honda Prelude SiR S Spec (exhales). Well, that is a bit of a mouthful, is it not? However, while it is not a menacing name, it is the best possible sleeper Prelude your credits can buy. The Type-S fanciness is its biggest enemy, while the SiR has no such thing. Firstly, it is 40 kg lighter than the S. Secondly, it still has the same mighty H22A engine as the S. Thirdly, it is 3600 credits cheaper. And finally, it feels much easier to drive than the Type-S. What is the reason for most of these things? The fact that it does not come with the ATTS system. Yes, not having one of the most advanced technological marvels in differential history is a plus for the S Spec. For starters, having less weight means that the weight distribution is a bit more bearable and braking becomes a tad bit better as a result. Then come the suspension and drivetrain ratings; I will share a few mediocre cellphone pictures with you on this matter, and I will apologize in advance for the fluctuating quality of said pictures:

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In essence, not having the ATTS makes the SiR less stiff, lighter in feel and weight, and less prone to rotation issues than its big brother. So much for having an edge because you are the more expensive person in the family… Once I took the SiR to Tsukuba, after driving the Type-S, the results were evident; while the gap was not massive (only a few tenths of a second), the SiR was the quickest of the fifth generation Prelude duo. And it felt better to drive, thanks to all the previously mentioned drivetrain differences. While the Type-S spent half of its lap losing corner exit speed thanks to poor rotation, the SiR could exit corners without leaving a trail of front tire smoke behind itself. It is still not quite up to Integra levels of handling prowess, but it is far smoother than its heavier counterpart in the Type-S.

And so ends the Type-S story. It was a story of great hopes, which were sadly dashed by cumbersome handling, part inaccuracies and the existence of a far more competent brother in its ranks. And out of respect, I will not even mention other Tsukuba lap times that I set for comparison’s sake, set by rival cars in the form of Nissan’s S15 Silvia Spec-R Aero and Toyota’s Supra SZ-R. However, I will say that in terms of driving feel they both have the Type-S beat, and beat soundly. Against my own 2016 COTW choice, the Fiat Coupe Turbo, the Prelude lost due to the Coupe’s better engine (thanks to its turbo-fed induction) and more planted front end behavior (thanks to better rotation under power through corners). I had good expectations for the Type-S, but the final result was not quite up to them. The Prelude learned that changes can hurt the hard way, as its size change led to additional taxes within the Japanese car market, and sent it straight into the oncoming path of monsters such as the Lancer Evolution and the Subaru Impreza STI. In America, where the car had to compete against the more comfortable Accord coupe and the cheaper Civic Si, the sales figures were even worse. After 2001, the Prelude was no more, with its only saving grace being the ATTS system, which was fused with Honda’s VTM-4 system and led to the creation of the SH-AWD traction and handling system. Yes, that is the system that is now being employed in Honda’s mightiest sports car, the born-again NSX… In the end, what the SiR proves is that sometimes, you have to do with unconventional approaches to be successful. The Type-S paid a hefty price for its revolution, and in GT6 that price is just far too much…

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Best:

• Smart and elegant non-chav design;
• One of the most powerful NA VTEC engines you will get this side of a S2000;
• Stable and easy-to-understand driving behavior.

Worst:

• Can you say "Lack of rotation in corners?";
• ATTS system not faithfully recreated in the game;
• It doesn't do anything that the SiR S Spec can't do better.

Final Veredict: Beater; the Prelude is no Integra, but it had the potential to surprise many on the track, with its polished engine and sharp gearbox. But alas, the weight of its innovations winds up destroying most of that potential, much like Mitsubishi's infamous 3000GT... Sometimes you don't need to go techno on us, Japan, we can handle a few analogic devices once in a while.

As a follow up to that comparison, I took both Preludes around the Death Valley Sample track and the non ATTS version was quicker by around half a second.

There was definitely more time to be got from both of them, but I felt more consistent in the non ATTS version due to the more predictable differential keeping the tyres from spinning too much and the lower weight.

Interestingly, even though the ATTS version has 3 more PP than the non ATTS version, it's both heavier and less powerful ( ok it's 1hp less ).

I came into this weeks car with some reasonable expectations, but it's not met even half of them.

As Niku said, why buy the 96' ATTS equipped model when the non ATTS model is cheaper, lighter, more predictable, better on the tyres and faster round a track?

So my Beater of the year vote is taken from the Fiat to the 96' Prelude type S. 👎

If there's a Sleeper here, it's the non ATTS equipped Prelude SiR. 👍

 

[Niku Driver HC]

As a follow up to that comparison, I took both Preludes around the Death Valley Sample track and the non ATTS version was quicker by around half a second.

There was definitely more time to be got from both of them, but I felt more consistent in the non ATTS version due to the more predictable differential keeping the tyres from spinning too much and the lower weight.

Interestingly, even though the ATTS version has 3 more PP than the non ATTS version, it's both heavier and less powerful ( ok it's 1hp less ).

I came into this weeks car with some reasonable expectations, but it's not met even half of them.

As Niku said, why buy the 96' ATTS equipped model when the non ATTS model is cheaper, lighter, more predictable, better on the tyres and faster round a track?

So my Beater of the year vote is taken from the Fiat to the 96' Prelude type S. 👎

If there's a Sleeper here, it's the non ATTS equipped Prelude SiR. 👍

Couldn't have said it better myself, Vic. 👍

Driving the SiR really enlightened me as to how much additional weight can affect a poorly balanced FF car, after driving the Type-S. And when you can get it for less money and keeping more of your own sanity in the process, there's no real reason to think of the S as a Prelude track weapon.

Of course, while I didn't mention it in my review, if you are really desperate to keep those 220-plus hp in your Honda, you'll be far better off with the one and only Civic Type-R FD2. Yes, it is not quite a coupe, but are you going to argue with such a poised handling and a weight distribution that is eons ahead of both Preludes'? Not even the Prelude's spiritual sucessor, the DC5 Integra/RSX, can quite stand up to the fury that never reached foreign markets...

 

[Draggon]

I concur with Niku and Vic. I did some tests with both models before Tuesday's races. The SiR S was just under a second faster around Midfield. While I could push the S to get close to the SiR's times, it was a lot of work. I started Tuesday night with the S, but when I changed models, I started having more fun. It's a much better car.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Sorry for the late post. Work's been busy

Honda Prelude Type S '96
2.2L
213 hp / 7,000 rpm
163 ft-lb / 6,500 rpm
1,310 kg (2,888 lbs)
405 pp

At Mid-Field Raceway on Comfort Soft tires, the Prelude can achieve sub-1:30 lap times and a maximum speed of 124 mph.



Cars within 0.500 seconds:

1:29.237 - 405 - Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
1:29.247 - 429 - Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
1:29.296 - 412 - Mitsubishi Pajero Evolution Rally Raid Car '03
1:29.315 - 378 - Toyota MR2 Spyder (6MT) '02
1:29.335 - 417 - Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R '03
1:29.337 - 415 - Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX (Z31) '83
1:29.363 - 399 - Renault Sport Clio R.S. 2.0 16V '02
1:29.371 - 402 - Honda Prelude SiR S Spec '98
1:29.371 - 388 - Lotus Elise '11
1:29.379 - 419 - Acura CL 3.2 Type-S '03
1:29.426 - 399 - Mercedes-Benz SLK 230 Kompressor '98
1:29.437 - 396 - Honda Prelude SiR '96
1:29.459 - 406 - Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car '74
1:29.496 - 411 - Toyota Supra SZ-R '97
1:29.517 - 397 - Honda Accord Euro-R '02
1:29.577 - 425 - Toyota Caldina GT-Four '02
1:29.655 - 406 - Audi S3 '02
1:29.688 - 409 - Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus '00
1:29.697 - 405 - Honda Prelude Type S '96
1:29.715 - 405 - Toyota Altezza Gita AS300 '01
1:29.736 - 418 - Acura CL 3.2 Type-S '01
1:29.794 - 400 - Nissan Skyline HT 2000 RS-X Turbo C (R30) '84
1:29.799 - 390 - Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97
1:29.893 - 400 - Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) '87
1:29.908 - 415 - Pontiac Firebird Trans Am '78
1:29.914 - 387 - Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR '97
1:29.914 - 388 - Renault R5 Turbo '80
1:29.918 - 420 - Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 Type V '98
1:29.924 - 401 - Honda Prelude Si VTEC '91
1:29.937 - 403 - Seat Ibiza Cupra '04
1:29.942 - 432 - Land Rover Range Stormer '04
1:29.954 - 406 - Honda Accord Euro-R '00
1:29.973 - 376 - Toyota MR2 Spyder '99
1:29.995 - 407 - Peugeot RCZ '10
1:30.048 - 415 - Volvo C30 R-Design '09
1:30.076 - 389 - Mitsubishi FTO GR '97
1:30.126 - 403 - Mini Cooper S '11
1:30.170 - 407 - Audi TT Coupe 1.8T Quattro '00
1:30.175 - 394 - Peugeot 206 RC '03

It's faster than the Civic Type R and nearly as quick as the naturally aspirated MkIV Toyota Supra, so it's a sleeper in my book. I would prefer the lighter Civics and Integras over the Prelude any day, however

 

[Vic Reign93]

^^ And it doesn't get more conclusive than that.

Not only is the 98' model faster whilst giving away 3PP, the same year SiR with a almost 10pp handicap is faster.

The 91' Prelude gets a bye in my eyes due to being down on power ( 197hp from factory).

 

[Obelisk]

Obelisk is unable to comment on the Prelude due to another incident with the RUF Grandma.

More details later.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Sorry about the delay. All weekend I've been IT support for a large indigenous tribe of very primitive people, known only as "family".

...While I could push the S to get close to the SiR's times, it was a lot of work.

Sorry for the late post. Work's been busy.

Perhaps I should've titled this thread "Chore of the Week", because that's what this felt like. Unpaid labor (chore vs job).

I started Tuesday night with the S, but when I changed models, I started having more fun. It's a much better car.

Congratulations Tom Sawyer Draggon! By ditching the spec car for something more enjoyable, you've demonstrated what this thread is all about: learning about cars and having fun! Are you giving us a vacation this week, or is it more indentured servitude?

Morning MC. The poor Italian nation has been suffering since the lousy reviews we gave the Fiat Coupe back in January and I took it upon myself to attempt to restore their reputation.

I worked very hard last night to uphold the reputation of that Fiat, which bested most Ludes and would've bested a Lotus Carlton had it not been for villainy and the aggression of a thrice-World Champion. And I will be damned if anyone dares sully her name. You should be grateful for having the chance to partake of her many pleasures. N stuff.

It's the '71 Ferrari 365 GTB4!!!

The Baby Ferrari's older sister is HOT! Further commentary would lead to me getting banned, so let's just leave it at that.

Congratulations also go out to @Lewis_Hamilton_ for knocking off the-artist-formerly-known-as-Vic with a time of 2:16.204. Lewis barely nudged past Her Majesty by only .381! This week's challenge is at Imola, because I'm still on the track waiting for the marshals to show up and explain why I get threats of criminal charges yet the lapped traffic can ram me with impunity. Special thanks to Black-_-Hole1885 for providing my coffin the track.

P.S. #F1Friday! It's a thing!

However... because I'm the moron that thought he was only deleting a Club Event, you'll need to rejoin the new club. It wasn't an event that I deleted (10 events max.), it was the entire club. The new Club ID# is 1059539, and I apologize!

If candles weren't meant to be lit at both ends, then why does the wick run the entire length? You can't explain that!

​

Obelisk is unable to comment on the Prelude due to another incident with the RUF Grandma.

​