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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by McClarenDesign, Dec 29, 2013.
I didn't pay close enough attention to see that the TT closed yesterday afternoon
Rightio Vic, what'll it be?
This one at first glance may not seem like a sleeper, but when you factor in what it did you might see why I chose it.
Rather than show a picture of the car ( with or without the COTW standard photoshop job of a woman pasted on to it. ) I'll instead show you this car at full throttle in its natural environment.
The 1999 Citroen Xsara Rally Car!!!
Built not to WRC specs, but to F2 Kit Car specs which meant engines couldn't be bigger than 2 liters, had to be Non turbo and front wheel drive.
The idea was to keep the costs low, but like a shopaholic wife with your bank card, the costs didn't stay low for long.
The F2 Kit Car class folded in 1999, but it was in this year that the Kit Cars really caused an upset.
Due to less regulations on engines and a lower weight limit the F2 kit cars were not only matching the WRC Rally cars on the Tarmac rally's, but beating them too.
They first made the podium in 1997 not once, but twice. In 1998, the kit cars were now snatching second on the Tarmac rally's and finally in 1999, winning overall at the Rallye Catalunya and the Tour De Corse rally.
The car that did the job? That'll be the Citroen Xsara F2 Kit Car.
The last non 4wd car to win overall in a WRC event was this very car.
And this cars younger brother, the Saxo also ran in the Kit Car class and it was the starting point for the most successful rally driver of all time, yep Frances alien rally driver Sebastien Loeb.
I would be remiss not to include a mention of this from last Tuesday:
Taking a Moment to Remember a Life
And a Moment to Celebrate Life
I know Nismo posted his photos of the tribute lap and subsequent tyre shredding over in the thread about the late, great @FoolKiller and whilst it doesn't get any easier with losing people we know, doing these tribute laps means we can reflect and celebrate the good memory's that person gave us and the GTP community.
Of course, there was minor issue on my end, the custom soundtracks I have.
I've got over 100+ songs on it and it just so happens that when we decide to do a tribute lap it decides to play a song which reeks of dark humor.
In this case, A well known song from the Bee Gees, I'm pretty sure you know which one it is too.
This has happened twice now, the other time IIRC was at the Justin Wilson tribute lap.
Either my PS3 has become self aware and has developed a dark sense of humor or i'm just painfully unlucky when it comes to tribute laps.
But that aside, shredding the tyres and creating a mini Summernats smoke show was great fun.
As far as the Xsara goes, it's a pretty unique rally car on GT6. It's the only full spec front-drive rally model in the game and is also significantly cheaper than all of the WRC machines at 150k.
As far as potential it certainly has it's uses, but for me dirt rallying isn't really one of them, ironically. It's not a bad rally car per se, but the FWD layout gives it a significant disadvantage in putting its power down to the dirt, especially in uphill situations. It's lack of rear wheel power makes it spin up the front easily and the FF chassis' natural torque steer makes it more ineffective around tight dirt tracks than all but the most rickety of classic rally models on GT6 (I'm looking at you Bluebird).
It's most definitely not useless though, and perhaps surprisingly one of its best uses is on snow tracks, where the style of driving is quite different to dirt, and the corners generally require more high speed flow than the gravel tracks of GT. On these track types, the front wheel drive actually works as an advantage, allowing for easy manoeuvrability and pulling the car through corners much more easily.
It's also a great specimen of a road racer, as the FWD layout allows for more aggressive corner entry which can help significantly on the tarmac. Overall, I'd say that the Xsara is a sleeper for sure, as most players don't realise it's potential (and it doesn't even feature in the rally car selection of the car dealerships, further obscuring it). It's a somewhat niched vehicle and will only benefit some, but for those who want a rally car which stands alone on GT6 and offers a totally unique handling signature - it delivers.
This point was more than proven during tonight's meet up. Eiger Nordwand G Trail, uuggghhh.... Wheelspin for days, and then on the uphill bits, it had no traction at all. It barely crawled up the hill at 30km/h, almost reminiscent of the Honda Z Act! (I apologize for my foul language)
Front-wheel drive fun, off road!
It's the Citroen Xsara Rally Car...
As @Vic Reign93 mentioned when he announced this car, the Xsara's claim to fame is beating the top-level WRC cars despite being a lower-tier F2 Kit car. In Gran Turismo, my experiences with the Xsara have literally been a one-night stand. I have no previous experiences, no previous thoughts, no ideas or opinions on it, purely because I've never ever driven it. It doesn't help that it's easily overshadowed by it's later-model WRC counterpart, the C4.
Initial tests in the Xsara were rather plain. It understeered a lot, to be expected from a FF car, and didn't quite have the same oomph I'd find in a WRC car. It was kind of hard to see how an Impreza or Evo or Focus could have lost to this thing! Also hindering the Xsara's chances with me was the fact that the internet kept booting me out, my wifi modem has issues... long story. Anyways I only got two or three races in with real people, opposed to A.I. However these few races still taught me a lot about the car..
Fast paced action at one of my lesser-preffered tracks...
At Cote D'azur, I battled through the upper half of the field into the lead, and over the course of three laps, I built up a three second lead. It was surprisingly simple, the Xsara felt completely at ease navigating the tight and narrow streets, and it was here that I realised just why it was famous. It absolutely dominated on the sealed streets! It would nail the racing line without hitting walls, and it was an all round pleasant ride!
But then.... Who started catching up to me?!
Vic must be fishing, cos he's reeling me in!
My three second lead had been reduced to a mere bumper-tap, and with only two turns to go he made a move on me, I counter-moved, then went a bit wide and sent him into the wall! A bit dirtier than I would have liked, but I wasn't gonna let my near-perfect run get nicked at the last corner!
Last minute lunge on my by ol' Vic!
The other race, which I won't talk about much, is the Eiger Nordwand G trail... There were a few speculations that the Xsara's weak spot was dirt, and those claims were proven more than right.
So then, verdict on a Kit car that could?
Ironically, being a rally car, I wouldn't use it on the off-road. But this signifigant flaw is more than made up for in it's street performance, honestly I'd drive it again quite happily around Monaco, or SSR5, or even Madrid! It's a sleeper
No time to stop and smell the dandelions!
From Paris, with Love (and some dirt)
I don't get asked to review race cars often. People generally don't wonder whether a race car is a recommendation to buy or drive, they just like to look at them and want to know whether they're worth rooting for or not. Yet, sometimes, I do get blessed with the honors of taking something like a NASCAR or an F1 car on a track, just to get a taste. Even rarer is the chance to drive a rally car...though I have to admit, I suck at rallying. Nevertheless...
The Citroen Xsara Rally Car is really an odd one. Citroen wasn't exactly a huge name in rally pre-Xsara. It's strange to see a car in WRC wear these colors and wear such an un-storied name, amongst the likes of Subaru and Mitsubishi. Yet, they gave it their best shot, and what ended up happening was a bit of a surprise, as they ended up grabbing a few wins with storied names like Sebastian Loeb at the wheel. So it's kinda like France's own little Impreza, really. And just look at it.
I've never really thought the base spec Xsara was really that pretty, but in rally guise it just seems right. I'd daily one of these without all the stickers and paint tacked onto it. It's a great looking little rocket. But enough gawking, it's time to drive this thing. A once in a life time chance...
So, as you slowly approach the tarmac, you really start to notice just how quickly this thing...wait a minute.
This isn't the right setting to test this car on...
QUICK, to the emergency back up rally stage!
That's better. As I was saying, true to most rally cars, the Xsara has a nice amount of pick up and pep in the straights. It gets up to speed nice and smooth with its short gears, and makes little of a tall hill, even on the dirt. Things go pretty smoothly on the first stage of the course, with little to no complaint.
As I approach a corner, however, I am amazed as it seems like the Xsara gives up mid-corner. Blame that on my lack of rallying skills, but I found a good amount of my lap just wishing I could hurry through the corners. It's a bit monotonous, constantly trying to not end up in the wall. Drastic attempts to flick it around corners came up flat. It's then when the producers told me it's FWD. Stupid me.
The Xsara, however, makes nice and quick work of my favorite section of this track: a long, downhill stretch. It feels brisk and light on its feet, and the sprinting speed doesn't even come against it in the sweeping bends near the end. This was the brightest point of the drive.
But then it all goes **** up as I start going back up hill. I know I said it can make quick work of an uphill stretch, but those corners really do become this FWD car's enemy. Especially on these conditions. It'd truly take a master such as Loeb to master a track such as this.
Honestly, I have to say I was a bit let down by the Xsara. After researching how well this thing did, I was expecting a walk in the park, but instead I got a fuming marathon on a stormy day. With tornadoes. And wet baguettes. With the straight line speed being the feeling that at least you didn't get too wet. My colleagues tell me this thing is quite nice on tarmac, so perhaps I should have stayed at Indy. But until then, I'm giving the Xsara a beater.
As I brought up on race night, the french manufacturers in the F2 class were aware that optimising their cars for tarmac rallies would compromise the perfomance on gravel and snow rallies, but they took the chance as an overall rally win could have a bigger career impact for its drivers, at least that's what I think they did.
The Xsara was an animal on the tarmac tracks even when we all ran on SH tyres, it was still good on the snow rallies and even MC put in a great performance against Ash and Lit.
However the Dirt Rally (I really gotta stop the name dropping. ) did bring to light its weak point in that it struggles for traction, but to be fair we did kinda drive it up a very steep incline and it didn't get stuck, unlike the aforementioned ACT Z which couldn't even climb the tiny incline on the mini Matterhorn track.
In terms of power, a little over 300hp in a sub 1 tonne car with a close ratio 6 speed makes it quite engaging to drive.
Even though the lack of 4wd compromises it's rally capabilities, it's still a Sleeper as its a cheap, quick out the box and a great handling machine.
It's also as mentioned before very overlooked, I asked the guys at the end of the night that had I not picked this car, would they have bought it themselves and they all said no.
That pretty much says it all really.
And I'll be hosting tonight at the usual time.
Lobbies up chaps.
Congratulations CORRUPTEDDISC! What brochure do you have for us to view for next week? A bonafide rally car certainly is a tough act to follow...
Ahhhh, so that's what you look like without the epic beard... It's the 2002 Infiniti FX45 Concept!
You are aware that we've got a list for such things, right? Thank god we don't get the S. Vettel version, a silly car from an absolutely silly German. Sure, he's got 4 World Championships, but Senna had the NSX and the best Seb could get was this. Let that be a lesson to anyone that dares repeat the now-infamous Multi21 incident.
No, as a matter of fact I won't let it go. Every day I get a suggestion from Google+ to follow Red Bull Racing despite the fact that both of my accounts are banned from said team. Guess Mrs. Horner couldn't stand the heat, but she did it to herself.
Then there was this from 2012:
While I'm being a total Richard, the least I can do is point out @CORRUPTEDDISC 's YouTube channel, stuffed with enough content to keep you entertained until the next American election/first nuclear salvo. He's even provided a look at this week's car:
I've gotta finish up on the remodeling of the office and knock out some errands before the day ends. If @Nismonath5 is able, I'll leave the Playing With TTs! creation to him. In the mean time, here's a sample of what I've been screwing up working on for the past few weeks (system crashes, equipment failures, replacements and upgrades not included due to lack of remaining sanity). I've installed some mounts to better monitor Twitch in between races, added some shade to help when I edit during the daylight hours, accented a 370Z photo sent to me by a G+ friend and condensed the consoles that make of this happen. Next up will be upgrades to my graphics cards (a pair of RX 480s), a PS4 Pro and hopefully VR if a bundle is released soon.
Point blank, FX45 is a sleeper.
Hey there plebs, Waflz with a quick PSA. We are holding an online race over on Duel of the Week. It's kind of a gigantic duel of many different stock supercars.
Imagine how cool it would be if we could get 16 people in this race! Imagine if we could get someone to upload this to YouTube! Wow!
So yeah, join our "bonus round" if you're interested.
Haha, thanks for giving me the choice of vehicle for the week, and of course for the shoutout to my work on YouTube.
As far as the FX45 goes, well it certainly has some dedicated fans, myself included, but it still surprises me how few people seem to utilise it for racing. It's the PD-proclaimed 'GT-R of SUV's', but for a change the hype is actually deserved, since it's ability goes far beyond its raw numbers. I take any opportunity which I get on the channel to talk about cars like the FX, as they really are underappreciated gems even after being a part of the GT franchise since GT4.
It may not have the sheer power of a Pikes Peak quattro or Range Stormer, but it's much lower (even WRC rivalling) weight when upgraded allows its (tuned) 650 horsepower motor to blow almost any non-AWD car into the gutter for sheer launch and acceleration. But unlike the Stormer and Silverado SST, the FX45 is far more than just passable around the track - it's a sports car eater. And for barely more than 50,000.cr it's a significantly cheaper alternative to its main rivals (by a huge margin in some cases).
Overall, it's soft appearance, lower power and placement in a less frequented dealership ensures that it sits well below most peoples' radar, and as such I would say that it's one of the best sleepers in the game.
This Time, it's Personal
So, it's only been about a few weeks, and we're already back at my biggest conundrum, Infiniti. Since the G35 Sedan left me meh, and a mild dash with its successor's performance version left me underwhelmed, I haven't yet found out if Infiniti is worthy of its place in the world as a luxury brand. Perhaps there's some legitimacy in its SUVs.
The FX45 (seen here in its prototype variant) was essentially Infiniti's first crack into the wildly growing mid-size SUV market in the early 2000s. Everyone had one, and Infiniti wasn't about to be left out of it all. They, however, decided to do things differently. And how much more different can you get than Infiniti's radical styling, something they were experimenting heavily with, and under the hood, while most cars in the class came with a V6 as their top of the range option, the FX got its power from a 4.5 liter V8, producing 320 bhp. That's serious business.
But upon first view, you find that the FX is really a rather polarizing car. The styling is something that you could either acquire a taste to, or it could also sever your retinas and use them as a straw. It's really subjective to the beholder. I don't find it to be too disconcerting, however, I would have preferred my tester didn't come in a color I could only describe as Donald Trump.
Sadly, the theme of our dear leader's complexion continues inside, and the rest of the design doesn't much make up for it. I think Infiniti was trying to go for what they believed was the future of business aesthetic, but instead what we get is flat greys and a dash of cheap, aluminum-look plastic. Still, bewildering that they managed to find a specimen for me to test whose dash didn't look like it was going through puberty.
But with all that said, the most important aspect of these reviews is how well it performs on-road, because even some of the ugliest and the most cheaply-built cars can still be good. And that's what we want to know...is this thing good. Can it prove to me that Infiniti isn't worthless?
First and foremost, what has to be said about the FX is this. It will absolutely fly. This thing has a curb weight of around 4300 lbs, but with that V8 under the hood, you just don't feel like you're hefting that down a straight. With a 0-60 of around 6 seconds, it's unfair to say this big, orange bubble is anything close to resembling a slouch. And listening to the roar of that V8 is all too addicting, though it did seem a little raspy up at the high ranges.
But then you start to break out in that cold sweat as you see the corner appear, you dab on the brakes in a huge attempt to get this thing to slow down and succumb to a tight apex. Most SUVs fail in this area, but surprisingly, the FX doesn't seem to mind a little flick through the twisties. Sure there's a touch of understeer and a great deal of body roll, but it doesn't really break it loose enough to ruin the whole day.
To say that this thing is necessarily nimble would be an overstatement, but I wouldn't say it isn't light on its feet, and I believe Infiniti should be commended. I found this much more enjoyable to drive than most mid-size SUVs, even my beloved Cadillac's XT5. It's even better than a lot of the cars I test here on a regular basis.
The Infiniti FX45 is not a perfect car. In fact, the flaws, when you find them, are massive. But, I have to commend it for just how well it drives, and while it's not exactly the best handling car in the world, for such a massive machine, it's pretty darn spectacular, and for that alone, I wish upon it a sleeper rating. And also, this is the first Infiniti I've truly liked so far. We'll see where this goes from here.
The TT's are ready to be played with, people!
Hope y'all like trees, cos we're heading deep into the forest!
I'm waiting for the lobby.
McD's online, not long now.
You'll be able to tell which FX I'm in.
Yeah, because your names gonna be right above the car in big letters! See everyone soon.
I was referring to color, smart guy.
Edit: Had some good racing, but my rig right now gives me bad back and shoulder pain because of the awkward position. I feel like a proper rig would help me drive better.
Anyways, had one heck of a finish on Apricot Hill: 0.001 ahead of @Draggon, I believe.
Some great racing, and close finishes last night. A surprising vehicle the FX is Here are some pictures to entertain you until next week!
@RMedia_Obelisk barely gets by me at Apricot Hill. I'm ahead here, but when the timers clocked us he won!
@RobboGTAddict shows @Draggon and @todally_lit the way out of the chicane at Monza.
There's a bit of a crowd at Ascari
@Vic Reign93 pressures @McClarenDesign to run wide in turn one at Ascari and snatches the opportunity to pass!
I think you mean @Obelisk there.
Lobby will be up at the usual time, i'll be on hosting duties.
Infiniti FX45 Concept '02
340 hp / 6,500 rpm
333 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,500 kg (3,307 lbs)
9.73 lbs/hp is incredible for an SUV. The weight doesn't seem right...Internet sources claim over 4,300 lbs.
137 mph max speed on this track.
Cars within 0.500 seconds:
1:23.477 - 440 - Amuse S2000 Street Version '04
1:23.480 - 446 - Acura NSX Coupe '97
1:23.506 - 477 - Volkswagen Scirocco GT24 (Volkswagen Motorsport) '08
1:23.530 - 472 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI RS T.M. Edition '00
1:23.555 - 464 - Mazda Roadster Touring Car
1:23.646 - 458 - Hyundai Clix '01
1:23.653 - 458 - Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33) '95
1:23.676 - 477 - Jaguar XKR Coupe '99
1:23.696 - 466 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII GSR '01
1:23.779 - 456 - Subaru Impreza Coupe 22B-STi Version '98
1:23.802 - 482 - Jaguar S-Type R '02
1:23.814 - 463 - Tesla Motors Tesla Roadster '08
1:23.823 - 457 - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi (Type-II) '02
1:23.866 - 432 - Ford RS200 '84
1:23.879 - 448 - Spoon Civic Type R (EK) '00
1:23.889 - 471 - Toyota Supra RZ '97
1:23.895 - 458 - Infiniti Coupe Concept '06
1:23.911 - 458 - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi Version VI '99
1:23.950 - 457 - Infiniti FX45 Concept '02
1:23.980 - 465 - Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
1:24.139 - 449 - Toyota RSC '01
1:24.163 - 453 - Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon STi (Type-I) '00
1:24.169 - 453 - Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) '02
1:24.206 - 458 - Nissan Skyline Coupe 370GT Type SP '07
1:24.216 - 438 - Mazda RX-7 Type RZ (FD, J) '92
1:24.221 - 455 - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi Version V '98
1:24.246 - 439 - Honda NSX '90
1:24.278 - 463 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution V GSR '98
1:24.310 - 456 - Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) '07
1:24.342 - 452 - Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
1:24.370 - 472 - Audi RS 4 '01
1:24.391 - 429 - Honda S2000 '03
1:24.406 - 440 - Nissan 240RS Rally Car '85
1:24.431 - 453 - Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '89
1:24.439 - 455 - BMW 320i Touring Car '03
Comparison between Infiniti:
1:23.895 - 458 - Infiniti Coupe Concept '06
1:23.950 - 457 - Infiniti FX45 Concept '02
1:25.939 - 446 - Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
1:26.824 - 426 - Infiniti G35 Sedan '03
It keeps up with the legendary Supra RZ and WRX STI of similar vintage. How could it not be a sleeper? However, it's only thanks to the absurdly incorrect curb weight.
I guess the Concept would have had lightweight materials in its cabin, rather than the super thick captains chairs that production cars are erroneously forced to have, because it conveys comfort better?
The infinite FX of speed...
Having taking some unexpected (and unwanted) time off and away from racing, I managed to get a bit of time in the Infiniti Concept SUV. With 4.5 litres of V8 power under the bonnet, it's no slouch especially when you factor the 1500kg weight... pretty good for an SUV, let alone many other cars featured here in GT6.
Having the benefit of 4WD, it launches forward quite nicely, and can handle launching itself in the air as seen above at Eiger. Although it does handle quite nicely for this type of vehicle, it does suffer from the usual suspects of understeer and body roll... but not as bad as I would have thought. The 20" SH footwear it was sporting helped with that...
Sadly, I wasn't as up to par as I wanted to be, and left before I could find out what it had to offer with some bolt on parts added into the mix. Gran Turismo has had some excellent examples of auto show concept cars to offer throughout the years, and this one is pretty damn good as tested stock. It has definite potential, which earns it a Neutral status from yours truly... but I must admit it holds high hopes of being a sleeper when tuned. Time will tell that story...
It was great having you back. COTW seemed "normal" again.
Thank you for saying so... means tonnes! I definitely need more practice, as I felt way off race pace. Either way, it was nice to get some laps in! Hopefully Tuesday will be nice to me and let me have some more fun!