"Best Hot Hatch"; Final Vote for "Best Family Sedan/Saloon"

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
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Vote for "Best Family Sedan/Saloon"

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
I've been quite surprised with the sedan voting. The Accord has a pretty narrow lead, but it certainly deserves the attention it gets. I'm still pulling for the Commodore (yay future Impala!!!), so we will see what happens...

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For those who are confused about the definition of a "Hot Hatch":

Wiki
A hot hatch is an informal or slang term for a performance derivative of a European hatchback (in the US, Asian sports hatches are sometimes called sport compacts). Vehicles of this class are typically based on a budget, family-oriented automobile, and equipped with improved suspension and a more powerful engine. Front mounted engines and front wheel drive is the most common layout.
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...So no, neither the Corvette or M-Coupe make it in. The RSX walks a pretty thin line as to what is a hatchback and what isn't, and I'm going to say that it is not. Sorry if that messes up your nomination, but generally a hatchback is going to be more Golf-esque or Clio-like....

(So far, I'm quite surprised nobody has nominated the Mazda 3s Hatch or the MINI Cooper S...)
 
yes the rsx/integra is a coupe for sure, and the bmw is often called the m-coupe so the name says it all really, i think my nomination is going to the ford escort rs cosworth, its defo a genuine hatchback

crbstescortcosworthouvesj6.jpg


even tho the cosworth was based on the sierra chassis(a ford saloon in europe) it shared the same body as the escort which was one of fords best selling cars in the uk since the '60s, the escort rs cosworth was released in 1992 and used the YB engine designed by cosworth originally used for the sierra rs cosworth 3 door, the sierra rs cosworth sapphire, and the rs500(produced in conjuntion with Tickford) which were all very successful in rallying and touring car racing, the YB unit is a 2.0 DOHC with a garret T3 turbo and an intercooler which gave 227hp, the standard escort cossie could do 0-60 in 5.7 secs and go onto over 140 mph, the YB is capable of big power and its easy to come across escort cossie's with 500-750hp on the road in the UK, but the escort and sierra cosworths are both used in rallycross and these cars are producing 900hp+ using a YB engine, having the potential to produce so much bhp is helped by the car having 4WD. The car has awesome looks with its 'whaletail' spoiler and aggresive bodykit by Karmann, 16" 5 spoke wheels but fit upto 18s with no problems, it also has Recaro interior avaliable in leather. The escort rs cosworth already has classic car status even tho its only 14 yrs old and is still one of Clarksons favourite cars and that alone is enough for the car to get my nomination.
 
YSSMAN
I've been quite surprised with the sedan voting. The Accord has a pretty narrow lead, but it certainly deserves the attention it gets. I'm still pulling for the Commodore (yay future Impala!!!), so we will see what happens...
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Me too. Is the Accord that's winning this one?
car_eurogalleryext01.jpg

Or this one
accord_ext_02.jpg


We get both in Australia. The first picture being the 'Accord Euro' and the second being the 'Accord' (Or more commonly called here 'Accord Seppo'). If it is indeed the later one being voted for I'm amazed. No one actually buys that one because of how terrible it is in comparison to not only the 'Euro' but to everything else in the class as well. In May '06 (The latest figures I could find) 1,019 Euro's were sold, compared to 255 Seppos, despite being priced slightly higher.
 
Im going to guess that we're referring to your second picture. I'm not sure what the first is badged as in Europe (in some GT game, it was called the Accord Euro R), but in America it's badged as an Acura TSX.

I certainly voted with the regular accord in mind. When it comes to normal people, I can't think of anything better...though I personally would rather have the Legacy.
 
Wow, I'm suprised the Accord is getting so many votes, it's a decent car but bettered by the Mondeo in every way except maybe looks depending on your preference.
 
I really don't think you could class the BMW Zcoupe as a Hot Hatch and i would add that the Clio V6 is really a mid engined coupe, as Scaff has already pointed out and as many many 'Cars in General' threads have also argued.

I was going to 2nd (or 3rd) the Clio 182 Trophy for the vote but Race Idiot's pix of the Dodge Omni has jogged my memory into nominating the Lotus Sunbeam.



Rear wheel drive and powered by the 2.2ltr Lotus Esprit engine 👍
 
I'm going for the Clio - any of them. 172, 182, 197, V6. All of them are hot-to-steaming hatches... And they're the cheapest "Hot" thing you can get in Israel - 206 GTi is 50% more expensive, and the Golf GTI costs double as much...
 
TheCracker
I really don't think you could class the BMW Zcoupe as a Hot Hatch and i would add that the Clio V6 is really a mid engined coupe, as Scaff has already pointed out and as many many 'Cars in General' threads have also argued.

I was going to 2nd (or 3rd) the Clio 182 Trophy for the vote but Race Idiot's pix of the Dodge Omni has jogged my memory into nominating the Lotus Sunbeam.



Rear wheel drive and powered by the 2.2ltr Lotus Esprit engine 👍
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Good choice and a nice nomination.

I would also have to add that I would personally not class the Escort Cosworth from earlier as a 'Hot Hatch' either, its too big and was designed as more of a rally homolgation special. Ford's hot hatches of the time were the XR2 and RS Turbo (not that I would nominate either).

XR2.jpg


1711353316.jpg


Regards

Scaff
 
the escort is a hatchback without a doubt, i admit its slightly on the larger side compared to some but its still a hatchback, it fits all the criteria to be in the hatchback category, and as for it being homolagation race special i could understand that if they only sold a few hundred cars but they sold well over 7000, it was influenced by rallying but not built specifically for that purpose, as for the talbot sunbeam lotus there were only 2300 sold approx, but talbot did start off with the intention of making 400 cars to satisfy homologation rules so how does this car deserve to be nominated anymore than the escort rs cosworth
 
VW Golf R32 V '06. Has to be the ultimate Hot hatch. (at least that you can buy today! Cough... Peugot 205 GTI.... Cough :lol:) VW Golf R32 V is Packing 250Bhp, 4WD and the bullet proof VW V6! plus it looks awesome, has a great luxurious interior and is practical. As Jeremy Clarkson said: "a hot hatch should let you put a chest of draws in the back and then drive stupidly quickly."


PS: Any Hatch that can leave a Mini Cooper for dead is a hot hatch! Skoda Fabia VRS is in!
 
ill go for the skoda octavia vrs voted What Car? ‘Best Hot Hatch’ 2006
skodaoctaviarsbyabtsporgh3.jpg

Powered by either a petrol 2.0T FSI 200bhp engine or the new diesel 2.0TDI PD 170bhp
 
danda
the escort is a hatchback without a doubt, i admit its slightly on the larger side compared to some but its still a hatchback, it fits all the criteria to be in the hatchback category, and as for it being homolagation race special i could understand that if they only sold a few hundred cars but they sold well over 7000, it was influenced by rallying but not built specifically for that purpose, as for the talbot sunbeam lotus there were only 2300 sold approx, but talbot did start off with the intention of making 400 cars to satisfy homologation rules so how does this car deserve to be nominated anymore than the escort rs cosworth
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But look at the side profile.

Does that look like a hatchback? I don't think so. Hatchbacks don't have any horizontal surface at the rear.

So the Evan-pedia definition of hatchback:
A hatchback is defined as a car where the rear opens with the rear windscreen and is, approximatley, vertical at the rear. N.b. Not to be confused with am estate/wagon.
 
danda
the escort is a hatchback without a doubt, i admit its slightly on the larger side compared to some but its still a hatchback, it fits all the criteria to be in the hatchback category, and as for it being homolagation race special i could understand that if they only sold a few hundred cars but they sold well over 7000, it was influenced by rallying but not built specifically for that purpose, as for the talbot sunbeam lotus there were only 2300 sold approx, but talbot did start off with the intention of making 400 cars to satisfy homologation rules so how does this car deserve to be nominated anymore than the escort rs cosworth
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In that case the best hot hatch is the TVR Sagaris, it beats everything else I can think of right now by a large margin. Just having a hatchback doesn't make a car a hot hatch imo.
 
live4speed
In that case the best hot hatch is the TVR Sagaris, it beats everything else I can think of right now by a large margin. Just having a hatchback doesn't make a car a hot hatch imo.
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but a "hot hatch" is defind as a budget, family-oriented automobile, that is equipped with improved suspension and a more powerful engine.
 
You people are crazy.

2007 Mazdaspeed 3.



Turbo 2.3 I4 with 263 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, with less torque steer than you'd think.

0-30mph: ~2.1 sec
0-60: ~6.0 sec
1/4 mile: ~14.3@99mph

60-0: 111 ft.
lateral acceleration: ~.86 g, minimal understeer

(Car and Driver, 11/06; Motor Trend, 11/06)

Stability control that can be turned completely off, traction control that can be turned off, and a nifty boost controller that holds back a little power in first and second gears to help you keep up with that WRX's AWD. Killer seats that hold tight and a six speed make you more involved.

I do have to concede from personal experience that it's very difficult to make the thing go straight on the highway because the steering is so sensitive. The shifter feel is horrible. It's no Honda by a light year. The brake pedal only takes about 5 ounces of pressure to floor, which means the first time you drive it you'd better have your seatbelt on. The clutch feels stupid springy and I hate it. And the electronic throttle makes me want to kill myself.

Maybe I should've chosen a trusty old Honda Civic, which doesn't have any of those problems.
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
but a "hot hatch" is defind as a budget, family-oriented automobile, that is equipped with improved suspension and a more powerful engine.
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That went over your head didn't it. I wasn't actually nominating the Sagaris. I was making the point that just because a car has a hatchback, that doesn't make it automatically a hot hatch. We've alrady had the Escort Cosworth and Clio V6 nominated, they're far too far already imo.
 
live4speed
That went over your head didn't it. I wasn't actually nominating the Sagaris. I was making the point that just because a car has a hatchback, that doesn't make it automatically a hot hatch. We've alrady had the Escort Cosworth and Clio V6 nominated, they're far too far already imo.
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Shouldn't a Hot hatch also have weak "Base models", too? Otherwise, it's just a performance car, shaped like a Hatchback...
 
The New Civic Type-R, whenever it comes out next year. But until then....

(since the Trophy's been taken ;))

The "humble" 205 GTI

Peugeot_205_GTI_et_205_Turbo_16.jpg
 
The Escort Cosworth was based on a shortened Sierra platform/running gear. Although still significantly longer than a regular Escort of the time it also had a longitudinally mounted engine whereas all the other Escorts of the time had a transverse one. Including the RS2000 4x4 that was out around the same sort of time. Rather like the Clio mentioned earlier it looks like the base models but isn't really anything like them.

My vote goes to a 106 Gti. The best hot hatch I've driven although Scaffs nomination of the Sunbeam nearly got my vote and made me think of this....



Another old school rear drive hot hatch the Vauxhall Chevette HSR.
 
danda
the escort is a hatchback without a doubt, i admit its slightly on the larger side compared to some but its still a hatchback, it fits all the criteria to be in the hatchback category, and as for it being homolagation race special i could understand that if they only sold a few hundred cars but they sold well over 7000, it was influenced by rallying but not built specifically for that purpose, as for the talbot sunbeam lotus there were only 2300 sold approx, but talbot did start off with the intention of making 400 cars to satisfy homologation rules so how does this car deserve to be nominated anymore than the escort rs cosworth
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I didn't say that the Escort was not a hatchback at all, I said that I (as in a personal opinion) considered it to be too big to be classed as a 'Hot Hatch', and certainly by common consensus (within the motoring world) Hot Hatches are small cars.

As far as comparisons to the Sunbeam, have you ever seen the two parked close up? The Talbot is far smaller than the Cossie, and when it comes to homologation regs, well we are talking about totally different eras here and different production requirements. Numbers vary massively from the Group C days at Le Man when 1 road going version was required, to the BTCC were over a hundred thousand were required for homologation. For example teh current FIA Group A regulations (WTCC & WRC) require 2,500 series production models to have been built and sold to the public in the last 12 months (and this must be ongoing).

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
As far as comparisons to the Sunbeam, have you ever seen the two parked close up? The Talbot is far smaller than the Cossie,

Regards

Scaff
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true but u have to remember over time cars have got bigger,just look at the mk1 golf gti compared to the mk5
 
so i take it we arent allowing the escort then coz if so i need to vote for something else, btw the chassis used on the cossie was a modified sierra chassis and was much shorter than the sierra, if the skoda octavia(which is bigger than the escort) gets in then thats just laughable
 
ExigeExcel
Does that look like a hatchback? I don't think so. Hatchbacks don't have any horizontal surface at the rear.
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Well...
250px-Dodge-Shadow-coupe.jpg

That is a hatch-back.
As is this:
250px-Plymouth-Sundance-Sedan.jpg









And anyways, since the last "true" hot hatch (Peugeot 106) is already nominated, I'll have to give it to the Shadow in Shelby CSX form. Immense fun in V6 form, and the car I learned to drive in; I can't imagine how much of a blast the CSX is. Perhaps even more fun then the Neon...
csxxh3.jpg

(I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the original Mini Cooper 1275)
Scaff
Sorry to say, but by most common definitions of the term, the BMW would not qualify, a Hot Hatch should be derived from a run of the mill family model. Its a 'hot' version of what is normally considered a boring model.
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I'm quite sure, if I remember correctly, that there was a plane jane version of the M Coupe.
bmwzcoupe30od7.jpg

 
Yayers! That means it nominated right?

If not I'm gonna go back to my hole....
 
skip0110


Looks like a hatchback to me.
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Read this article and tell me what the first sentence of the first paragraph says. :)
http://cars.about.com/od/acura/fr/05_rsx_s_pp.htm

Oh, and even Wikipedia says so...
Honda considers the new Si to be a more viable choice for performance minded young men, who are the most common buyers of RSX's. Speculatory articles seem to indicate that a 2-door variant of this new TSX will replace the RSX as Acura's entry-level sports coupe, although it will be more luxurious, more expensive and more powerful than the RSX and will thus likely appeal to a different market segment.
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~Article Link
 

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