"Best Hot Hatch"; Final Vote for "Best Family Sedan/Saloon"

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
  • 141 comments
  • 7,606 views

Vote for "Best Family Sedan/Saloon"

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
skip0110
And I can counter with links from Edmunds and Consumer Guide. Or you can look in the summary panel of the very Wikipedia article you sent me to.



I admit it is a close call, definitely lies on the line between coupe and hatchback. YSSMAN said its out, so out it is. :)
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Wow, what was Consumer Guide's Editors thinking on calling it a Hatchback Coupe? How can it be both? It's not like a Chevy Avalanche (SUV/Pickup), so that's mind boggling.

What's even funnier, is that even Kelley's Blue Book is confused....
~Acura Coupe's
~Acura Hatchback's

I wonder how many times this argument has rose up before?
 
Toronado
(I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the original Mini Cooper 1275)[/quote]The Mini was a saloon car, not a hatchback.

Toronado
Definitely a station wagon.
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No a 5 door hatrchback, it's nowhere near the lenth of an estate car. A friend of mine has a regular Mazda 3 5 door, it's a similar size to my 5 door 306.

MINICOOPER120
I really want a Fiat 500 to be in the poll. it may not be "hot" but it's a historical type thing, and I love it a lot. Although, if that doesn't qualify, I'll take the City.
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Like the original Mini, the Fiat 500 was not a hatchback.
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YSSMAN - what about my nomination for the Sunbeam Lotus?



Toronado
The Escort Mk. II RS2000 came many years before the RS200.
And either way, Milliethemutt is incorrect as the RS Cosworth was very much so based on the normal Escort. It was the RS200 that had nothing to do with the normal Escort.
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The Escort Cossie wasn't based on the Escort - it was based on the chassis and running gear of the Sierra (Cosworth). It had a wider wheel base than the standard Escort.

The RS200 wasn't based on anything, although it used doors (cut down) windscreen and dashboard from the Sierra.
 
live4speed
No a 5 door hatrchback, it's nowhere near the lenth of an estate car. A friend of mine has a regular Mazda 3 5 door, it's a similar size to my 5 door 306
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So, by that logic this is a hatchback:
250px-Ford-Focus-wagon.jpg
Because the Mazda 3 5 door is around a foot longer than the 306, 4 inches taller and wider an also sits on a wheelbase that is a little less than 4 inches longer. With the Ford Focus wagon the Mazda is essentially the same every dimension but width, which the Mazda has 3 inches more of (ish). And I know that the weight of the car doesn't necessarily negate it's hot hatch-ness, but the Mazda 3 MPS weighs within 100 pounds of the mid-sized Ford Fusion.Not to mention it suffers from having two more doors than is allowable to be a true hatchback, in my opinion. So, its a sport wagon. Not a hatchback.
 
Toronado
So, by that logic this is a hatchback:
250px-Ford-Focus-wagon.jpg
Because the Mazda 3 5 door is around a foot longer than the 306, 4 inches taller and wider an also sits on a wheelbase that is a little less than 4 inches longer. With the Ford Focus wagon the Mazda is essentially the same every dimension but width, which the Mazda has 3 inches more of (ish). And I know that the weight of the car doesn't necessarily negate it's hot hatch-ness, but the Mazda 3 MPS weighs within 100 pounds of the mid-sized Ford Fusion.Not to mention it suffers from having two more doors than is allowable to be a true hatchback, in my opinion. So, its a sport wagon. Not a hatchback.
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Do you know the difference between a hatchback and an estate? Length is not the defining factor. Though my last post did imply that, it was worded very badly it's not the total lenth of the car, it's more to do with the space behind the second row of seats which is more often the back row of seats, some estates have a third row. The Ford Focus estate isn't the longest estate by a long shot but again the lenth of the car doesn't define it being an estate or not. Also the number of doors has absolutely zero bearing on if a car is a true hatchback or not, a hot hatch or not. The Mazda 3 MPS is by no definitian an estate, it's a 5 door hatchback, it has nowhere enar enough room behind the rear seats to be classed as estate. You can keep your opinion that it is not a hatchback, but your opinion will be different to what people in the industry, magazines, Mazda and more have to say.
 
YSSMAN, I'm going to have to insist you specify the Megane 225 Trophy.
 
nice to see that YSSMAN has some sense and realises that the escort cossie is actually a hatchback unlike some half-wits, and of course its based on an escort lol thats why its called an escort, i already stated that it uses a sierra chassis, the fact that it uses a MODIFIED(shortened) sierra chassis doesnt mean anything, its still an escort, i suppose the people that think the escort isnt a hatchback would also think that big foot is an SUV, anyway im glad after fighting its corner the cossie was allowed by YSSMAN, nice one YSSMAN im looking forward to see how it does against such tough rivals
 
danda
nice to see that YSSMAN has some sense and realises that the escort cossie is actually a hatchback unlike some half-wits, and of course its based on an escort lol thats why its called an escort, i already stated that it uses a sierra chassis, the fact that it uses a MODIFIED(shortened) sierra chassis doesnt mean anything, its still an escort, i suppose the people that think the escort isnt a hatchback would also think that big foot is an SUV, anyway im glad after fighting its corner the cossie was allowed by YSSMAN, nice one YSSMAN im looking forward to see how it does against such tough rivals
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There's nothing like a bad winner is there?
 
danda
nice to see that YSSMAN has some sense and realises that the escort cossie is actually a hatchback unlike some half-wits, and of course its based on an escort lol thats why its called an escort, i already stated that it uses a sierra chassis, the fact that it uses a MODIFIED(shortened) sierra chassis doesnt mean anything, its still an escort, i suppose the people that think the escort isnt a hatchback would also think that big foot is an SUV, anyway im glad after fighting its corner the cossie was allowed by YSSMAN, nice one YSSMAN im looking forward to see how it does against such tough rivals
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No-ones said the Escort Cosworth isn't a hatchback, it has a hatch, at the back, therefore it's a hatchback. The question mark is over if it qualifies as being a hot hatch or not. Yes the Escort Cosworth is an Escort, like you said, that's what it's called, but that doesn't mean it's based on the Escort, Ford could have called the Ford GT the Ford Focus, but that doesn't mean it would have suddenly been based on the Focus. The Escort Cosworth isn't based on an Escort, like you said, it's based on A Sierra chassis, so it's based on a Sierra 💡. It's not connected with the rest of the Escort range in anyway but name, the Escort RS Cosworth is nothing more than a holomogation special much like the Ford RS200 road cars never were (they were hatchbacks btw). By some lines of reasoning the TVR Sagaris is more of a hot hatch than the Escort Cosworth, considering it's at least based on the T series of which the Sagaris is the top model of. Is it a hatchback, yes, but so is the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, so is the TVR Sagaris, so are a lot of cars that wouldn't be considered in this poll. Is the RS Cosworth a hot hatch, personally it's teetering on the edge for me. The body style as you pointed out is clearly a hatchback and it's part of the Escort lineup, but it's not based on any other Escort within that lineup, it's a toughie. My final point is that by calling anyone who dissagrees with you a half wit your not doing yourself any favours or helping your popularity. It's not the mother of all insults sure, but insulting other members is however against the AUP.
 
I'm gonna go with Live4speed. There is a Wagon 5 door focus and a hatch 5 door focus. And they loook VERY different.

The Mazda 3 is a hatch, the Impreza is a wagon. The Honda Fit is a Hatch, the Yaris is a Hatch, the xA is a Hatch, the Matrix is a Hatch, the Versa is a Hatch. How many of those have 5 doors? Oh wait...
 
And the winner is.....l4s!!!!

If it has a rear HATCH, and not a liftgate (suvs, wagon/estates) It should be considered a hatchback.
 
danda
this is not true, there was the RS2000 from the same era which was available with 4wd and a longitdinally mounted engine the same as the cossie
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And also @ Toronado


Really? http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/car_info/esc5rs2.htm
That picture under the bonnet looks pretty transverse to me.

Don't asume I mean mk2 RS2000 when I say RS2000 as it was a name also given to a mk5/6.

Don't even get me started on the RS200 except for the fact they are one of my favourite ever cars.
 
MatttheTuner
And the winner is.....l4s!!!!

If it has a rear HATCH, and not a liftgate (suvs, wagon/estates) It should be considered a hatchback.
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Read the post again. He clearly states that even though a Sagaris, Vantage etc. have hatches, they cannot fit into this category.

Personally, a hot hatch is a car which exhibits things that are practical and share the same general look of the base models, are affordable, yet have some degree of performance.
 
I don't think he was disputing the Escort Cossie or anything from being or not being a hot hatch, I think he was referring to my point about the Mazda 3 being a hatchback and not an estate/wagon like the similarly sized Ford Focus estate. Regarding the Sagaris, it is a hatchback, it's also a coupe, but it is not a hot hatch.
 
danda
nice to see that YSSMAN has some sense and realises that the escort cossie is actually a hatchback unlike some half-wits,
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danda, even if someone did say that the Cossie was not a hatchback (and I don't think that you will find that anyone did) to refer to them as 'half-wits' is quite simply not acceptable and you will not do it again.

When you joined GT Planet you agreed to follow the AUP, which quite clearly says:

AUP
You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harrass, threaten, nor attack anyone or any group. There will be no racially, sexually or physically abusive or inciteful language tolerated. Any abusive comments made by members will be removed by the Moderating staff and the user issued with a warning or banned, as deemed appropriate by the Moderating staff. No personal attacks on other members will be tolerated. If you question someone, it must be done in a reasonable and semi-friendly manner. Violating this rule will be grounds for suspension and/or permanent removal from the board.
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From the posts I have read regarding the Cossie (which do include my own) every one has questioned the cars inclusion, without needing to insult others. These threads, by their nature, open up debate and personal opinion, if you can't do that without resorting to insults then you time here will be short. Now I would rather that not be the case and I'm sure you feel the same, so calm down and accept that people can have differing opinions and viewpoints to your own without it being personal.

Regards

Scaff
 
Holdenhsvgtsr
that isnt the hot hatch of the skoda family.the octavia vrs is
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and how did you come to that conclusion?

I nominate the 1.8T 180 hp seat ibiza Cupra R and the Seat Leon Cupra R. Both when chipped will eat many cars alive on the road once the front wheels have captured some grip. There are meant to be plenty 300hp and 350hp models running around on UK roads alone terrorising imprezas on roll on races.

They are phenomenal underrated and overlooked machines.

I give my support to the renaulst sport clio, even if they have a tendency to fall apart, the chassis is relaly that good.
 
Okay, if we're still going to fight about the 5th Generation Ford Escort Cosworth RS, maybe that alone deserves a vote?

The Escort we had here was a completely different monster, and while we did have a lift-back version, we did without the hatch (from what I remember). You Europeans would have a far-better knowlege of the car than I would, so if there is such great opposition to it all, let me know by PM I guess...

cossie500.jpg


This is the case, right? It looks like a "hot-hatch" to me, but I have no idea if that is the correct case or not. I've never seen one in person nor read much about the car...
 
For Jebus' sake, let's just stop this and include it.


nnnmmmokay?
 
I did agree with the non inclusion but not really that bothered. If you include that I expect it will only be a matter of time before someone nominates a Delta Integrale. I can't as I've already nominated.
 
Leave it in if it really means that much, then if we have a discussion on the 'best Rally Homolgation special' (BIG HINT) and it gets excluded on the grounds that its already been a hot hatch then we can fall about laughing.

Scaff
 
Where the hell did the votes for the A4 come from?

...You know, it helps not to have Audi fanbois running in and out and not explaining the reasons why the feel such. Personally, I don't care much for the car, as the Passat is pretty much the superior model for less money. But whatever, votes are votes... I guess...
 
YSS, you need to get a mod to edit that poll. Audi fanboys indeed. The A4 is small, expensive, not very roomy, and just not a good family car. I think you should redo the poll, because that's just not logical. I've never seen an A4 win any family-oriented car mag tests. Or maybe it's my sleepiness talking.
 
Having a look at the voters its the lack of a 3-series in the final poll that wuld appear to be doing it, as I suspect that a number of A4 voters may have headed in that direction had the choice been present (for example the Mondeo would not have got my vote had the 3-series been present).

Scaff
 
I suppose. Of course, the A4 isn't as expensive over in Europe, so I guess I shouldn't be upset.
 
Well, lets see how things turn out. I really can't impede upon democracy, as we are seeing it in action to some extent. Kinda like Hamas running Palestine...

EDIT: We could do a run-off. The votes are outrageously close here. I don't want a Florida re-count here, but with things getting so strange so quickly, and the other front-runners neck and neck, a new thread may be in order.

...Let me know what ya'all want to do. There is still some time for more votes to come through, so things could change, you never know...
 

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